Track incidents at NSXPO

[DocL]

It is not "information" that is the concern but "misinformation". There is way too much false information disseminated on the internet in general by people with absolutely no knowledge of that which they speak.

I'm not sure if I'm taking this the wrong way, but are you directing something to me that I need to know. I never posted anything regarding any such incidents. As a matter of fact, I was more concerned about there being any kind of information, or lack of, being posted here.

I'm sorry if I caused any disruption, but I didn't see the need for anything to be posted to begin with as there are always curious minds out there.

 

[Mr.Wolf]

Do Not Post Photos Or Video

If you value your family, do not post.

Have a nice day gentlemen.

 

[RSO 34]

I'm not sure if I'm taking this the wrong way, but are you directing something to me that I need to know. I never posted anything regarding any such incidents. As a matter of fact, I was more concerned about there being any kind of information, or lack of, being posted here.

I'm sorry if I caused any disruption, but I didn't see the need for anything to be posted to begin with as there are always curious minds out there.

Nothing is being "directed" to you. My intention of starting this thread was to protect the privacy rights of the students involved in the incidents. As a member of the NSXPO Planning Committee and as a fellow student in the HPDE event at the Glen as well as being an eyewitness to the results, I was trying to assist the drivers with their rights not to have a public display of their unfortunate circumstances.

I was also present at a similar track incident last year at NSXPO 2003 where, without the permission of the driver, many persons posted photos of the vehicle and then publicly speculated as to the cause of the incident.

I was hoping to head off the expected similar speculative hypothesizing by those without any first hand knowledge of the events. To the extent that my concern for my fellow students has been misconstrued, I will apologize to them but I will not apologize to anyone else who would otherwise attempt to attribute any ulterior motives to my advice and request to respect the rights of these students.

 

[AU_NSX]

There is nothing out of the ordinary,mystical or otherwise.There is much more to be learned by attending an hpde with instructers than to discuss these isolated on-track one car incidents.

Not disagreeing here, statistical observation only, but didn't both these on-track incidents happen with instructors in the car?

I personally have found having an instructor in the car distracting... I spun last time I did whilst listening to their instruction...

Now I'm not saying that I don't think it is a good idea to have instructors in the car, I just go slower so I can listen to them... This is what I have found works for me personally, but might not work for everyone else.

 

[RSO 34]

Not disagreeing here, statistical observation only, but didn't both these on-track incidents happen with instructors in the car?

Yes. This was strictly a Driver's Education school and in-car instructors are mandatory as is classroom attendance. The instructors insure that the students are aware of the safety aspects of the driving as well as guarantee that the students don't attempt to turn this into a race.

Many other track events do not use instructors and drivers then engage in actual racing and timing of the events. Such activity was prohibited by the terms of the school being run at NSXPO.

 

[prova4re]

The people involved asked not to have any pic's, or video posted for there own reason's. End of story!

 

[NetViper]

The people involved asked not to have any pic's, or video posted for there own reason's. End of story!

I agree 100%.

 

[NeSX]

The people involved asked not to have any pic's, or video posted for there own reason's. End of story!

Agreed. This would have been a much more useful and significantly less interpretable post than the original.

 

[RSO 34]

This would probably seem to be an appropriate time to close this thread now that everyone appears to understand about respecting the privacy rights of these students.

I would appreciate if the Moderators could accomplish that at their convenience.

Thank you.

 

[jalnjr]

i agree with bob, great time to close thread, as
it has degraded to the point where mr wolf is threatening
the wellness of my family... wish i coulda pm'd you mr wolf,
but that's impossible.

wishing the drivers/instructors & their cars a speedy
recovery.

 

[White92]

I would assume that it is because of insurance companies and lawyers having access to pictures and stories on the internet, and then coming to conclusions and or decisions based on what they see and read.

I think some may forget that there are insurance people on this board already. Don't worry though guys. I know when to look the other way. If anyone needs insurance advice, feel free to PM me anytime.

 

[randai]

What incident? I didn't see anything, did you?

 

[kgb_agent]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but this thread really got me thinking: if the NSX's in question were totalled (I'm not implying they were), would those VIN #'s be added to the totalled list that is tracked here? Is there a double-standard?

 

[wawzat]

When we were looking at the damaged cars. An inurance adjuster pulled up to look at another car in the same area that had been damaged a few weeks prior.

He said, "not often I get to work with a race car"

He walked over a few minutes later and asked, "what are you guys doing here, racing right?"

One of the other guys set him straight, but clear what he was after.

 

[SCS2k]

What incident? I didn't see anything, did you?

Track? What's a track?

 

[ajnsx]

I was trying to assist the drivers with their rights not to have a public display of their unfortunate circumstances

If the track is a public access track and you race on a public track, whats to stop anybody filming whatever happened and sticking it on the net? If its because you raced even if you knew your insurance was void, its the drivers fault isn't it?

Confusing and frustrating for me when someone starts a thread about something were not supposed to talk about! Now i want to know!

 

[MJK]

I am glad to hear that everyone (apparently) came through unharmed. I completely respect the choice not to post any information that would impede the insurance restitution process or privacy of the drivers. That being said, if there is a way for the rest of of to learn from this that would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps an anonymous post with "check your tire pressures before heading onto the track" or "be careful of non-standard alignments" or whatever else. I have no desire to pry into the details, but also have no desire to crunch my beauty when and if I am finally able to make it to a D/E event.

Please post or PM me as you feel appropriate.

 

[2slow2speed]

I am glad to hear that everyone (apparently) came through unharmed. I completely respect the choice not to post any information that would impede the insurance restitution process or privacy of the drivers. That being said, if there is a way for the rest of of to learn from this that would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps an anonymous post with "check your tire pressures before heading onto the track" or "be careful of non-standard alignments" or whatever else. I have no desire to pry into the details, but also have no desire to crunch my beauty when and if I am finally able to make it to a D/E event.

Please post or PM me as you feel appropriate.

Mark,

Most real HPDE events will require a tech inspection, even the FAQ lists things that people should do to inspect their vehicles before and after an event, and some HPDE events will require the instructor to drive your car to ensure that it handles properly before allowing the student to drive the car on-track.

Anyways, I also agree that this thread should be closed.

Ken

 

[MJK]

Most HPDE events will require a tech inspection, even the FAQ lists things that people should do to inspect their vehicles before and after an event, and some HPDE events will require the instructor to drive your car to ensure that it handles properly before allowing the student to drive the car on-track.

There was a tech inspection for this D/E also, so clearly there was something (either car or driving technique) missed. I'm not trying to get into anybody's business or turn Prime into a gossip farm, but if there is a way to learn from it then I'd like to. If it was a component failure, I'll replace it. It it was a typical 'newbie mistake', then I definitely have room there too.

Anyways, I also agree that this thread should be closed.

If we can't learn from it without harming the people involved, I agree.

 

[nsxtasy]

I am glad to hear that everyone (apparently) came through unharmed. I completely respect the choice not to post any information that would impede the insurance restitution process or privacy of the drivers. That being said, if there is a way for the rest of of to learn from this that would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps an anonymous post with "check your tire pressures before heading onto the track" or "be careful of non-standard alignments" or whatever else. I have no desire to pry into the details, but also have no desire to crunch my beauty when and if I am finally able to make it to a D/E event.

Here are some of the most common causes of on-track incidents, which may or may not have been the case with any of the incidents at NSXPO 2004:

1. Entering a turn too fast (due to insufficient braking prior to the turn). This can be avoided by first learning the line while driving moderate speeds, and GRADUALLY increasing speed once you are able to drive that line consistently.

2. Turning the wheel when headed off track, rather than trying to keep driving the car straight ahead. When you are going too fast, you can often avoid or minimize damage by driving the car straight off, rather than turning the wheel to try making a turn when you are going too fast to do so.

3. Putting two wheels off the pavement, and pulling the car back onto the pavement abruptly. This can be avoided by gently easing off the throttle and continuing to drive the car with two wheels off until it has slowed down sufficiently to regain control.

I'm sure others can add more points.

 

[Hugh]

If it were me I wouldn't want the pictures of my smashed car on the Net because I'd be embarrassed about destroying it due to a case of MSETFS*.

*Michael Schumaker Excess Testosterone Fantasy Syndrome

The only two times my car came close to a disaster at the track were when my "instructors" were driving it and trying to show me how "good" they were.
I wonder if it were the cars' owners or instructors who were at the wheel when the NSXs became scrap metal.

 

[TampaBayNSX-R]

In each of the track incidents being discussed in this thread the students were behind the wheel of their own car. Each had the benefit of very experienced instructors in their car at the time of the accidents but at the end of the day, there's only one steering wheel, one brake pedal and one gas pedal.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

TampaBayNSX-R is correct. Simply put, we can not drive your car for you.

Of course this doesn't apply to some "instructors" Hugh described. Some clubs are not selective on their instructors selections. NSX club is one of the few who does. This stress the importance of choosing the right club or even better, hiring professional driver coach. The later part could be very beneficial for those that seem to hit the plateau or looking for the last second that been eluding them.

There are two type of accident. Novice accident, and Advanced. The novice accident is pretty much what Ken described, and letting your testosterone drive the car. Eventually you ran out of talent in particular corner and loose control of the car.

The advanced accident is when someone keep pushing the limit of the car and his capabilities. Eventually losing control of the car because he is exceeding the limit of the car or his driving.

 

[MJK]

Exactly what I was hoping for, thanks for the excellent tips guys!

 

[Arshad]

Can someone please PM me the car #'s that were involved? I would like to post some video from the track event, but want to ensure that the privacy of the owners that were involved is protected.

There was a minor incident on Monday which I have the car number for. In fact, I have video of that incident too, but won't post it unless the owner wants me to. I have the car # of one of the vehicles from tuesday, and again won't post any footage containing that car unless the owner wants me to. I don't know the car # of the other car on tuesday.

If I can get the car number, then I can make sure it doesn't appear in any of the footage I post. If you are the owner of one of the vehicles that was involved and don't mind video being posted, let me know. Thanks.