Turbo owners please help... Crying out for help...

[jaffaz32]

Basically you may have seen me asking questions about turbo setups.

This is because i have purchased a turbo kit.

I'm not sure about some of the wiring, some of the plumbing and some of the fittings and best practices.

I would like to add, although my questions may sound amateur, it is being installed by a mechanic with my assistance IE. Tea boy... I am paying for his time and as cars vary so much and there are good and better ways of doing things i want to make sure i know all the answers to any questions the mechanic may have.

We start the install tonight, Please help...

Vacuums:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/181750-Vacuum-lines-i-need-3-i-believe

Oil Cooler relocation:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/181193-Sos-oil-cooler-relocation

Other Questions:

• Oil restrictor - Does this fit to the turbo itself? with the restricted side in the turbo? (Small hole) Then the braided oil line connects to that?
• AEM Truboost - Gauge and Solenoid wiring. What size spring to install in waste gate?
• Uego Gauge - Recommended hook up for wiring
• General Gauges - Recommended hook up for wiring
• AEM Water injection - Recommended hook up for wiring.
• Boost settings - when briefing the tuner do you specify BHP goals or boost pressure? Also i want to limit stress on my engine so i was thinking running about 320whp on a low boost setting so i can drive around with limited stress on the motor and still have fun but would this cause the waste gate to constantly open? and then the high boost setting at 400whp for when i need the extra power, i was thinking of setting the AEM water injection to kick in when on high boost setting and not the low boost. Is this a good idea? or is there a better way of doing it?

If anyone has a FIC base map for ID 720cc injectors but the supplier said a RC 750cc base map will be fine, would really help me out. But can i drive the car 100 miles to the tuners on this base map if i drove carefully?


Thanks.......

 

[Ko-nsx]

I would think the make of the kit could answer all your questions.

 

[RYU]

Vac #3 is true manifold pressure. You can grab boost/vac pressure from there.

 

[dawk]

For 400hp and under, 720cc injectors is overkill. Is the FIC a good choice for 720cc injectors?

 

[1stwife]

Is there any diagram that exist in prime? Basic info in regards to best place to get a vacuum source, where to tap in for the oil line to turbo? Pics would help greatly to avoid confusion

sorry not trying to thread jack but it's also related to your question .. I'm also in this process

 

[kookoo4nsx]

"hurry up I need answers because my installer is putting this thing in tomorrow" That's no way to begin a turbo installation.

First you have to lay out all your parts, its like a giant puzzle. Then systematically install them one by one. The hardest parts of my install were
remove and replace my stock '93 exhaust manifolds. It took a day an a half by myself. The other hard parts were plumbing a oil feed return line to
the pan. All these things took 3 weeks mostly by myeslf. I solved a lot of problems lying in bed before going to sleep......any my turbo kit installer
and other guys who installed the same kit were kind enough to walk me through some of the tougher snags I hit.

I was not comfortable installing injectors or wiring the FIC or welding the exhaust bung or the boost and afr gauges. Those were done by my dyno guy
and he knew it ahead of time so we got started at 7am.

I don't think you can do 2 maps with an FIC. You will be disappointed with 325hp. You will blow up your stock clutch in a few thousand miles with 400rwhp.
Also if you have the stock clutch remove the damper. SOS can sell you a buypass line.

Who sold you on 725 injectors for 350hp? 440's are more ideally suited. Remember the FIC just add's a percentage of fuel so 10% more fuel on a 725 injector
is not as precise as 10% more fuel on 440's.

Take your time, plan ahead a little more. Its alot like painting------90% preparation. Oh and if you installer doesn't know answers to these questions you have been posting, find someone else. Your motor will thank you and your wallet.

 

[DDozier]

"hurry up I need answers because my installer is putting this thing in tomorrow" That's no way to begin a turbo installation.

First you have to lay out all your parts, its like a giant puzzle. Then systematically install them one by one. The hardest parts of my install were
remove and replace my stock '93 exhaust manifolds. It took a day an a half by myself. The other hard parts were plumbing a oil feed return line to
the pan. All these things took 3 weeks mostly by myeslf. I solved a lot of problems lying in bed before going to sleep......any my turbo kit installer
and other guys who installed the same kit were kind enough to walk me through some of the tougher snags I hit.

I was not comfortable installing injectors or wiring the FIC or welding the exhaust bung or the boost and afr gauges. Those were done by my dyno guy
and he knew it ahead of time so we got started at 7am.

I don't think you can do 2 maps with an FIC. You will be disappointed with 325hp. You will blow up your stock clutch in a few thousand miles with 400rwhp.
Also if you have the stock clutch remove the damper. SOS can sell you a buypass line.

Who sold you on 725 injectors for 350hp? 440's are more ideally suited. Remember the FIC just add's a percentage of fuel so 10% more fuel on a 725 injector
is not as precise as 10% more fuel on 440's.

Take your time, plan ahead a little more. Its alot like painting------90% preparation. Oh and if you installer doesn't know answers to these questions you have been posting, find someone else. Your motor will thank you and your wallet.

WHAT HE SAID ^

But, you can have two tunes with the F/IC, 440's will work 550's would be better and about as far as I would go on an F/IC. If you need more fuel than 550's you need to think about a stand-a-lone ECU. 440's are just about done at 400whp, 550's are good to almost 500whp.

You will not need multiple tunes unless you are running different fuel types or some other power adder beyond the Turbo (if you are you need something other than an F/IC), tune the car for all boost conditions and the fuel type you will run the car on. If you tune the car using a boost controller you want the lightest spring possible in the waste gate, if the car makes 3-4psi boost on just the spring great because the boost controller will ussually only let you double the boost range of the spring so that would mean somewhere around 6-8PSI. Tuning with a boost controller will make your tuners job a lot easier and yield a much better tune. Once the car is ready to do the WOT tuning, start at the lowest possible boost pressure, tune the AFR and timing, move up a PSI at a time or more likely the next row of cells in your fuel and timing maps. Keep up this process untill you reach peak boost or your peak power you desire. This way the boost maps in your tune will be complete and no matter what you set your controller to you will have a tuned map to run those settings.

If you are using Meth, then it should be used to limit knock and reduce Intake Air Temps, I would not use it as a fuel source with the F/IC. Any time the turbo is in boost it is adding heat and heat increases the risk of knock. Reduce the IAT's and you will make more power with less pressure and in theory less stress. Set the controller to spray at 2Psi and use just enough to control the IAT's, a little goes a long way to controlling temps. Start with the smallest nozzle that will keep the IAT's under control increase size only if the IAT's are not being controlled. All this messing with the meth happens after you car is completly tuned without any meth be sprayed. The goal is to control IAT's without moving the AFR very much, you will see them move a little richer but nothing like a full point especially if you have any other type of intercooler in the mix. If Meth is the only cooling method being used a lot more care will have to be taken to dial the tune in as you will have much larger swings in the IAT's. The F/IC & OEM ECU are much better friends when the variables are limited, and IAT's are a huge variable in the OEM ECU's fuel strategy.

You do not tune an engine to a particular power level, you tune the engine for the conditions it will run under and it will make what it makes, since you have a boost controller you can change the conditions and choose your power level based on that condition. A few guide lines on power goals with the F/IC. A 3.0l or a 3.2l, in my opinion should not run more than 9lbs of boost, and only if you have very good control over the IAT's and good pump gas (93 Octane). A smart man would stop around 6-7psi. An eficient turbo design should yield close to 400whp and that in my opinion is the sweet spot for the NSX. If you have a stock clutch you will need to limit this some more as 350-375whp will be about all it can handle.

If you have not changed it already you are going to need a fuel pump, a healthy stocker is done by 350whp and a 20 year old stocker will be done sooner.

One more thing, if all that have said here is something your tuner does not understand you need to find another tuner. The F/IC is not a difficult tune but the tuner has to be able to understand the interaction between the F/IC and the OEM ECU. You can not just look to the internet for some tune to flash into a ECU for a given list of mods, the F/IC does not work that way it has to be tuned to your car and mods.

I hope your install and tunes goes well.

Dave

 

[peiserg]

not really on topic but whoever blows up a stock clutch in a few thousand miles.needs to learn how to operate.a clutch.better. seriously.

 

[RYU]

FANTASTIC advice from Dave. Please listen to him.

 

[unknownpharoah]

Send it to SOS.

 

[sca037]

FANTASTIC advice from Dave. Please listen to him.

Yes, please heed this advice.

Brian

 

[kookoo4nsx]

I politely disagree. The stock clutch Na1
Was never designed to hold 400 RWHP
and 300+ Torque. It WILL begin to slip
In 3rd gear.

not really on topic but whoever blows up a stock clutch in a few thousand miles.needs to learn how to operate.a clutch.better. seriously.

 

[peiserg]

I politely disagree. The stock clutch Na1
Was never designed to hold 400 RWHP
and 300+ Torque. It WILL begin to slip
In 3rd gear.

Politely disagree with your disagreement. I will admit my experience is limited to my vehicle, I had 70,000 miles on a stock clutch, 60000 supercharged., and was at 444 rwhp (though not for all 65 k miles...i did tinker and raise the boost and power from my starting point of 370rwhp).

This included roughly 4-5000 hard track miles. HPDE 1-2-3-4. Yeah, you read that right. 4-5000 track miles on that clutch before it went out at PIR during a HPDE 4 event.

Some people just can't drive a stick.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

I believe my stock clutch slipped on the dyno back in the day at low/mid 400's. Don't know what power band it slipped at but it was a limiting factor so we dialed back down the boost.

 

[doc_tai]

Peiserg, ur clutch last that long cause u had bbsc and ur peak torque is at 8k rpm not 4-5k rpm like turbo

 

[rj45]

I believe the spring size doesn't matter with tru boost but it must be lower than the psi your trying to run I believe. There are videos on youtube just google truboost and there is an install video where it goes over the spring setup. In the video it says "if you don't know the spring setup then"...
I'm setting up my aem truboost and MTX air fuel gauge in a few days so if you have not figured it out by then you can pm me....

 

[bngl3rt]

But, you can have two tunes with the F/IC, 440's will work 550's would be better and about as far as I would go on an F/IC. If you need more fuel than 550's you need to think about a stand-a-lone ECU. 440's are just about done at 400whp, 550's are good to almost 500whp.

You will not need multiple tunes unless you are running different fuel types or some other power adder beyond the Turbo

Say I want to run a pump gas tune and a race gas tune. I know a standalone (AEM EMS/AEM Infinity) can actually run a sensor for that and interpolate between the two maps on the fly. Is this also something the FIC can do? Or is the FIC more something where you throw a switch and get one map or the other?

 

[peiserg]

Peiserg, ur clutch last that long cause u had bbsc and ur peak torque is at 8k rpm not 4-5k rpm like turbo

hey, you can't be injecting things like fact into this discussion.

 

[DDozier]

Say I want to run a pump gas tune and a race gas tune. I know a standalone (AEM EMS/AEM Infinity) can actually run a sensor for that and interpolate between the two maps on the fly. Is this also something the FIC can do? Or is the FIC more something where you throw a switch and get one map or the other?

The F/IC will allow you to run two different tunes (flip a switch to choose tune A or B) for two different fuels but you can not mix the fuels as there is no interpolation between the two tunes, and so you know the sensor you speak of only reads alcohol content not octane so the only thing that sensor will help a stand-a-lone ECU do is determine the needed adjusts for alcohol fuel blends like E85 or E98. Race gas does not contain alcohol so the sensor would not make any adjustments you have to change the tune to take advantage of race gas over pump gas.

Dave

 

[jaffaz32]

Thanks for all the info.

I have been without the internet over the past few days

.

Quick update is we are 90% through the install. Need to order new oil return fittings as the ones i have slightly leak through the threads even with PT tape / bond. Apart from that it's mainly the wiring which i'm working through, burnt myself on the soldering iron many times which means it's getting there

.

the car started and idled briefly before shutting off to check for leaks etc.

I had a aftermarket clutch which has been sent back for rebuild. Until then it's oem.

The 720cc injectors i spec'd so i can rebuild the engine at a later point for more boost. I spent the extra to get ID's which work efficiently at a lower duty cycle than most injectors on the market and offer a superior spray pattern over RC's.

The fuel pump was upgraded last year some time. I do have a AEM FPR to install also, which i'm not sure how to setup to match factory pressure.

The reason for the urgency was because it was booked in months ago for install and i was in desperate need for answers to questions i have been trying to find out. I have been researching and researching

. I am performing the install along side the mechanic who has done several turbo builds on different cars.

I am going to have another good read through all the info here.

Also i need one more Vacuum unless i T piece in to another again. I've used #2 for wastegate solenoid, #1 for Truboost and FIC, FPR vacuum for water methanol, just need another for the BOV. I do have one which is blanked off i could use, it comes from the control box i believe it is the one that did trigger the VVIS butterflies, looking at diagrams it comes from the vacuum air box. I will update the number when i take a look tonight.

I had installed the 8psi springs for the wastegate was thinking i could use it as a fail safe, i will switch to the lightest which is 4.35 psi

I will switch the AEM water methanol from the medium to smallest nozzle and set the start at 2psi as suggested, what about the max? what ever the max psi i make on highest setting or shall i set it earlier?

Also as earlier asked in another post i will ask the tuner to map the car without methanol, i will do this by twisting both the dials to the highest setting so it's not triggered during mapping. So when methanol is running it is a added bonus and not used to boost octane for mapping the car which means i don't need to wire the fail safe for when it runs out as it was mapped without anyway.

Thanks guys!!