What would have made the new NSX sell better?

[Yinzer]

I agree about the steering wheel feel; in my (admittedly limited) experience with high-end cars, the gen-2 steering wheel feel is just great, maybe the best I ever came across. But like I said, supercars are enigmas to me, as I no longer can relate or desire for a hyper fast supercar with better infotainment controls on the steering wheel than my home stereo. Though I'd love the NSX2's steering wheel creature comforts in an everyday DD.

acura/honda never tries to hit homeruns in every catagory, they try to make a well rounded vehicle. highest top speed? never. lowest quarter? never. top 0-60? never. highest g's? never. yet somehow it all comes together to make fantastic driving cars.

We can agree to disagree and that's totally fine. Were you at NSXPO 2014 and able to partake in the presentation on the TLX? I recall seeing nearly a dozen graphs/spider charts where, on paper, the TLX came across as being the result of seeking to make it the absolute best in every metric presented, from performance to luxury to economy, etc. Yet did that translate into sales hit or any "gotta have it" threads on a Honda/Acura-fan site like Prime? I'm ok being perhaps the only one thinking the gen-2 gave too much focus on fashion, design/appearance and luxury, detracting from a primary focus on performance.

And reeling this back somewhat onto the OP's topic (which I realize was intended to be in regards to the actual car introduced), I still would liked to have seen Honda do a "Ford GT" version of the NSX - a retro update sticking as close to possible to the appearance & size of the gen-1 (that seems to be receiving a lot more renewed love worldwide now than it did from 1991-2005) perhaps with light appearance updates but addressing various gripes of the gen-1 while upgrading the performance of the gen-1!

 

[N Spec]

It's hard to say how Honda is going decide if the current NSX is a success or failure. Sales doesn't need to be great if they can use the platform and R&D to make variants of the proposed/rumored baby NSX and get that one to sell in a more realistic volume at a considerably lower price. Most Halo cars do not sell well. Look at the LFA and what Lexus is doing. Even the formidable GTR is not selling that great.

The GT3 version seems to be doing well in racing so they may also aid in NSX development and progression if they can continue to do well in racing.

I also really would like to see a 3rd gen NSX sooner than later like properly developed sports car tho so they should pay attention and work towards the refinements over time. Perhaps build the NSX with a proper brand identity and stay consistent with it over the years from this point because the forum or even world is divisive on what an NSX truly is. They need to make it clear. I obviously have my own opinions on what it is and so do others.

Whew, I couldn't respectfully disagree more. As far as premium materials: they often translate into heaviness & cost, and weight & price have understandably been key gripes. Plus is this a performance car, a luxury car, or all the above? Where the most expensive 911's can have cloth tabs as door pulls, I think any NSX should have performance as its focus...kudos to Ferrari for loading up their steering wheels with race/driver-focused tech vs. the NSX2's cluttered overload of radio/entertainment features for a middle radio that's inches away.... Sometimes I think Acura in general tries way too hard to hit homeruns in each & every metric available, instead of prioritizing certain things. I got that sense at NSXPO 2014 at the Honda tech center presentation, where the TLX was predicted to be at the top of each and every graph presented.... Trying to please everyone is a really hard task.

And the beak & to me is a huge detracting detail that's too often underestimated. Not one review I've read complimented it, and all either criticized it or danced around the issue. Not only is it not so easy to fix by all buyers, but it's not good to have an anchor like that for a new model out the gate seeking strong sales. I fully admit that there is no perfect answer to appease me and my frequent "gripes"...today's supercars are enigmas to me and I'm always astounded by any maker able to hit an obvious home run both to buyers with available funds and general fans who may never be able to buy such a car.

The 911 and Corvette are bad examples because they sells really well and cover a great range of buyers. The NSX is a completely different market segment and does not have the volume, nor will it ever have it (And I hope it never does).

The beak for the new NSX is detail like a strange tie on a nicely tailored suit. It can be changed, but at the end of the day it's just another tie very much like it's just another front bumper. Also, it's only within your view when you aren't wearing the suit :wink: Regardless, I've seen much trashier OEM designs on other sports cars, etc.

 

[Yinzer]

IIRC, when gen1 NSX came out it was faster than the currently available Ferrari, and also was cheaper, more ergonomic, and more reliable. Wins all around.

When gen2 NSX was being developed, Honda stated their goal was Ferrari 458 performance for Audi R8 cost. Unfortunately for Honda, prior to releasing the gen2 NSX, Ferrari updated the 458 to the faster 488, and Audi updated the R8 to be as fast as the 458 without a cost increase. So Honda hit their goals, but since the competition moved on it wasn't as impressive as it would have been otherwise. If Honda had targeted better than 458 performance for R8 cost, perhaps by getting an extra 150 hp from the gasoline engine, and/or boosting the electric power somehow, then it would have been more notable. Or, Honda could have shot for 458 performance at 911 prices - even with Ferrari and R8 upping their game, the NSX still would have been impressive.

I've no clue if any of the above would have been possible for Honda to do without losing a lot of money on each sale.

I think the above sentiment relates to mine, about Honda trying too hard to be the best in too many metrics at the risk of pleasing too few in the end. Best performance, at best (low) price. I would have liked more to see what would have resulted from targeting near-the-top (if not the-best) overall balanced performance within a certain cost category but while capitalizing on something uniquely theirs, namely keeping close to the original NSX design in this world where retro-cars are the norm.

 

[powdbyrice]

I agree about the steering wheel feel; in my (admittedly limited) experience with high-end cars, the gen-2 steering wheel feel is just great, maybe the best I ever came across. But like I said, supercars are enigmas to me, as I no longer can relate or desire for a hyper fast supercar with better infotainment controls on the steering wheel than my home stereo. Though I'd love the NSX2's steering wheel creature comforts in an everyday DD.



We can agree to disagree and that's totally fine. Were you at NSXPO 2014 and able to partake in the presentation on the TLX? I recall seeing nearly a dozen graphs/spider charts where, on paper, the TLX came across as being the result of seeking to make it the absolute best in every metric presented, from performance to luxury to economy, etc. Yet did that translate into sales hit or any "gotta have it" threads on a Honda/Acura-fan site like Prime? I'm ok being perhaps the only one thinking the gen-2 gave too much focus on fashion, design/appearance and luxury, detracting from a primary focus on performance.

And reeling this back somewhat onto the OP's topic (which I realize was intended to be in regards to the actual car introduced), I still would liked to have seen Honda do a "Ford GT" version of the NSX - a retro update sticking as close to possible to the appearance & size of the gen-1 (that seems to be receiving a lot more renewed love worldwide now than it did from 1991-2005) perhaps with light appearance updates but addressing various gripes of the gen-1 while upgrading the performance of the gen-1!

wasn't at NSXPO 2014, but i had to sit through multiple training modules and a ride and drive training on the 2015 TLX and hear how great the TLX is compared to the rest. at the time the tlx did certain things better than each of the competition, but never did EVERYTHING better than ALL (328i, IS250, prev gen CTS)

 

[RYU]

Is anyone paying attention to the new Lexus LC500/LC500h? MSRP $95k/100k

I saw a preproduction version last year of which the interior isn't as nice as what's on the market now. The NSX deserves an interior of this caliber. The LC is not a fancy MR supercar but for nearly half the price how does the NSX make any sense at $200k?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VHw-uuKzdBs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Z06Thunder]

The hybrid piece is intended to help promote this feature across the product line

Having hybrid tech at the very low end of the super car world is innovation

I get that many folks here don't want/like it but for those of us with the car, it is a really nice part of the whole

Apparently there are very few of you guys, thus this discussion of why it's a slow-selling car.

 

[Z06Thunder]

Ferrari has some of the most hideous AC vents in the business.

Agreed 100%! But, they can do whatever the hell they want, and it'll still sell, because of the brand they've built up. Acura NSX, as far as street cred goes, is far, far behind. So Acura needs to get everything right to have a success.

 

[Elistan]

Apparently there are very few of you guys, thus this discussion of why it's a slow-selling car.

I thought it was selling at a rate similar to the R8? And we don't know what Honda's actual sales target was. So this thread isn't really about 'why it's a slow selling car," it's about "what would have made it sell better."

 

[osus2k]

Ferrari has some of the most hideous AC vents in the business.

Disagree, the 599, 612, California interiors feel rich Carbon fiber is well executed and a multitude of options are available. Glossy carbon, deviated stitching, deviated colors, deviated piping, rich feel and smell. The NSX I drove felt like I stepped up mdx, I was also looking at the new Audi R8, interior is far far above the NSX

With that being said I'm not buying these cars for their interiors, i'll leave high end interiors up to the seven class, a8 and BMW 7 series

i've been looking head to head in at this point I would take the Audi V10+ over the NSX, but I'm old enough that I still miss manual shifting and provided my GT three manual allocation comes through I can always get into an NSX five years from now

 

[Bricks and Bio]

12 month sales target was 800 US cars

The slow ramp up, dealer issues and drop off in buyer interest cooked making that target.

The most recent sales month with 23 cars sold in the US during peak sports car season was bad news.

 

[Yinzer]

Is anyone paying attention to the new Lexus LC500/LC500h? MSRP $95k/100k

Not me. I try to divert eye contact anytime I see one coming at me or in my mirrors. I'm not making this up but I find the spindle grille design not only hideous but extremely off-putting and a source of uncontrollable disgruntlement until it's far from view. I think Toyota/Lexus just doesn't have what it takes to make a balanced-looking attractive sports car...not since the 80's Supra. Compared to the spindle grille, the gen-2 beak is downright pretty.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The LC is a lovely addition to the Lexus line up

It has it's detractors but the look and the interior are stand outs.

The older V8 from the IS-F RC-F and GS-F is kind of a stop gap. The hybrid is the perfect power source for this lovely car

The basic issue is lack depth in the model, no vert, no AWD, we will see what the LC-F turns out to be (hope for a TT V8 monster).

They also few pretty short on interior color options.

It is a wonderful car, glad they green lighted it from the prototype and so far it is selling well.

 

[RYU]

It's unfortunate that the LC weighs 4400lbs but for their target audience I don't think that's a deal breaker. No identity crisis here.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

It is really a personal luxury coupe for executives to cruise to work and for week enders

 

[nsx#fan]

The LC is a lovely addition to the Lexus line up

It has it's detractors but the look and the interior are stand outs.

The older V8 from the IS-F RC-F and GS-F is kind of a stop gap. The hybrid is the perfect power source for this lovely car

The basic issue is lack depth in the model, no vert, no AWD, we will see what the LC-F turns out to be (hope for a TT V8 monster).

They also few pretty short on interior color options.

It is a wonderful car, glad they green lighted it from the prototype and so far it is selling well.

You only need one interior color, black! The car is really awesome and the exhaust note from the V8 is spectacular. I've only had mine for a few days, but it's pretty remarkable. The new infotainment is BY FAR the best and most complete, and thankfully NO CarPlay (Lexus provides its own app suite). The rest of the tech is really impressive as well (HUD, pedestrian detection, PCS, LKA, CTA, BSM, all speed DRCC, etc. too many acronyms to list). The LFA-style gauges are neat, and more customizable content than you can shake a stick at.

I don't really think your assessment of "depth" is an issue. Lexus really never has done AWD outside of their SUVs, at least not well. And the convertible probably a given (how many does Acura make?). LC-F looking more unlikely (would be a price few would likey pay), but never say never.

I dare say it turns almost as many heads as my Lamborghini.

 

[RYU]

You only need one interior color, black! The car is really awesome and the exhaust note from the V8 is spectacular. I've only had mine for a few days, but it's pretty remarkable. The new infotainment is BY FAR the best and most complete, and thankfully NO CarPlay (Lexus provides its own app suite). The rest of the tech is really impressive as well (HUD, pedestrian detection, PCS, LKA, CTA, BSM, all speed DRCC, etc. too many acronyms to list). The LFA-style gauges are neat, and more customizable content than you can shake a stick at.

I don't really think your assessment of "depth" is an issue. Lexus really never has done AWD outside of their SUVs, at least not well. And the convertible probably a given (how many does Acura make?). LC-F looking more unlikely (would be a price few would likey pay), but never say never.

I dare say it turns almost as many heads as my Lamborghini.

At the risk of derailing this thread even further, is it true you cannot change radio stations unless you're at a full stop?

 

[nsx#fan]

At the risk of derailing this thread even further, is it true you cannot change radio stations unless you're at a full stop?

Not at all. Steering wheel buttons or voice command.

No wonder fake news is such an issue these days. One person writes one piece of misinformation, and everyone believes it.

 

[RYU]

Thanks! It seemed odd when the motortrend guy mentioned it in the video.

Not at all. Steering wheel buttons or voice command.

 

[nsx#fan]

Thanks! It seemed odd when the motortrend guy mentioned it in the video.

Ya. One guy drives the car for 30 minutes, and he's an authority on it. Go figure.

 

[RYU]

What made you not buy the hybrid?

Ya. One guy drives the car for 30 minutes, and he's an authority on it. Go figure.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I believe the radio thing is an urban legend

No point in including Acura in the discussion

Lexus has built volume on FWD platform cars and SUVs.

More recently they are getting croaked by MB and BMW and look for Porsche to take more business with the Panamera.

Need is a word I don't use. It is about want. You being a Lambo guy know how much customer choice is both offered and the wild stuff folks spec their cars with.

To be the big dog in the luxury space, you have to offer choices for rich folks.

For us folks in crappy climates, AWD sells, period. Every GS you see in Chicagoland is AWD as well as the huge majority of IS cars.

Rich folks also want verts so others can see how good they look.

Lexus has effed up by lacking depth in their models.

 

[nsx#fan]

I believe the radio thing is an urban legend

No point in including Acura in the discussion

Lexus has built volume on FWD platform cars and SUVs.

More recently they are getting croaked by MB and BMW and look for Porsche to take more business with the Panamera.

Need is a word I don't use. It is about want. You being a Lambo guy know how much customer choice is both offered and the wild stuff folks spec their cars with.

To be the big dog in the luxury space, you have to offer choices for rich folks.

For us folks in crappy climates, AWD sells, period. Every GS you see in Chicagoland is AWD as well as the huge majority of IS cars.

Rich folks also want verts so others can see how good they look.

Lexus has effed up by lacking depth in their models.

Not sure where you're getting your misinformation, but you're pretty off base. Being an Acura guy, it's excusable/understandable.

They have 1 FWD (only ES now, CT is dead), everything else is RWD with a few AWD variants. Looking at macro-region for AWD paints the wrong picture. Very few % of Lexus sales are AWD. Sans SUVs.

Those of us that want Japanese quality will NEVER buy BMW, Audi or MB (so doesn't really matter what % they have). Don't have to sell the most to be better, as you well know. Just have to look at quality ratings for past few decades. Lexus like other Japanese aren't bespoke builders, they'll never offer the range of customization Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc does. They hit the 99% of what buyer want. Good selection of colors and option packages.

If you opinion is Lexus eff-up, you must REALLY be down on Acura. Happy Lexus customer here. 12 Lexus between us 2 family members since they debuted, and more to come I'm sure.

 

[myw]

agreed on all points. going to test drive the hybrid the first chance i get, which having talked to the dealer on the weekend may be a while.

The LC is a lovely addition to the Lexus line up

It has it's detractors but the look and the interior are stand outs.

The older V8 from the IS-F RC-F and GS-F is kind of a stop gap. The hybrid is the perfect power source for this lovely car

The basic issue is lack depth in the model, no vert, no AWD, we will see what the LC-F turns out to be (hope for a TT V8 monster).

They also few pretty short on interior color options.

It is a wonderful car, glad they green lighted it from the prototype and so far it is selling well.

 

[myw]

i could be totally wrong, but aren't aston martins + and maserati's about 4000 lbs? the LC is in the GT cruiser market

It's unfortunate that the LC weighs 4400lbs but for their target audience I don't think that's a deal breaker. No identity crisis here.

It is really a personal luxury coupe for executives to cruise to work and for week enders

i wouldn't be surprised at all, the LC is hot.

I dare say it turns almost as many heads as my Lamborghini.

my guess is the wait time, my dealer said about 1/2 a year.

What made you not buy the hybrid?

 

[N Spec]

Toyota uses Magnesium shifters for a GT cruiser and Honda choses plastic for their prized NSX... Come on Honda!