AEM EMS or FIC?

[Jdmdohcpower]

Im planing my S/C build and Im looking to get about 400whp for street use. What are you guys doing for tunes? EMS or FIC? On my s2000 EMS is the way to go but I have read that may not be the case with the NSX
Thanks

 

[doc_tai]

Ems

 

[turbolence46]

I got a high boost CTSC, I just pulled the trigger on the EMS after talking with my tuner, in the ends it's what you can afford. They both tune the car, just one does it much better lol

 

[RYU]

Both will provide a safe tune. The EMS will allow you to push the limits. If you're conservative on your power expectations and want to save the $ go with the F/IC. If you want to spend more to get all the bells/whistles AND if your tuner knows how to configure them go with the EMS. If you want to go a step further get the Infinity.

Keep in mind.. the F/IC allows the factory ECU to control the driveability of the car so everything pretty much stays stock when not in boost which for many people including myself is most idea.. The EMS replaces the entire ECU unit.

 

[NetViper]

Both will provide a safe tune. The EMS will allow you to push the limits. If you're conservative on your power expectations and want to save the $ go with the F/IC. If you want to spend more to get all the bells/whistles AND if your tuner knows how to configure them go with the EMS. If you want to go a step further get the Infinity.

Keep in mind.. the F/IC allows the factory ECU to control the driveability of the car so everything pretty much stays stock when not in boost which for many people including myself is most idea.. The EMS replaces the entire ECU unit.

I think you still need the factory ecu to do drive by wire if you go with the ems.

Lots of people run fic with no issues.

 

[ozone]

FIC. EMS won't work for some inspection/emissions tests like New York State.

 

[Jdmdohcpower]

Im not worried about inspection at all. Im exempt due to milage every year. I have EMS on my s2000 and Jeff Evans knows what he is doing with it. I was told by Shad at driving ambition that EMS my be overkill as you do have to run the stock ECU and there are sometimes issues. He recomended the FIC. I was planing on going with EMS until I spoke with him.

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I guess Im trying to decide which is safer. I would think EMS would provide a bit more power but I dont want any issues.

 

[dawk]

Is it for a 2003?

 

[RYU]

Where is my head...I had forgotten about the DBW. You can always go with the Infinity!

 

[Jdmdohcpower]

yes 03 DBW
I dont know much about the infinity but I believe that is a step about the EMS. If thats the case I thinks thats more then Im going to need. Its a street car so EMS or FIC would be my two choices. Im leaning towards the EMS from SOS with the goodies

 

[jorligan]

Listen to Shad. There can be drivability issues with the SOS EMS. I have had both the FIC and SOS EMS on my car. I haven't had issues with the SOS EMS but do a search. You will also lose TC with the SOS EMS. Car also starts easier with the FIC and I NEVER had stalling issues with the FIC. Remember, the SOS EMS still requires the factory ECU to handle the DBW

 

[Jdmdohcpower]

Thats what I thought about traction but are you sure?
per SOS website about their EMS:"maintains factory traction control (advanced
programmable traction control also available through AEM software)"
What kind of issues would there be?

 

[kookoo4nsx]

I have the F/IC on my turbo for 2 years. The internal map sensor went out and AEM replaced the box no questions and it was out of warranty. The car starts and idles like stock. My AFR's are rock steady at 11.6 to 11.8 at max boost.
As for EMS idle issues, that can be tuned out, I seem to remember a thread here on it a while back. DDozier knows if I recall.

 

[chrisbailey13]

I believe the new EMS will work with the DBW. At least that is what Nabil mentioned in a conversation. It will also allow you to program in Traction Control, which previously wasn't an option.

 

[RYU]

Glad to see lots of folks using the F/IC. It's often a misunderstood and underrated system.

 

[jorligan]

Thats what I thought about traction but are you sure?
per SOS website about their EMS:"maintains factory traction control (advanced
programmable traction control also available through AEM software)"
What kind of issues would there be?

Yes, I have the SOS EMS on my car and no TC. You can check with Shad and he should be able to confirm but he was riding with me when I broke the rear end loose in 3rd gear on the track. Definitely no traction control as we had just completed the turn with full rotation and I had accelerated too hard with the car completely straight (600+ rwhp with a boosted 3.5 L). Had the FIC and it allowed the factory traction control. In regards to the AEM, it has a traction control type of system which has not been programmed in my car.

In regards to the EMS and idle, they can be tuned out 99% of the time but it becomes more problematic when you use an aftermarket clutch and flywheel. At XPO, there were a number of OBD2 cars with the EMS and mine was the only one with essentially no stalling issues. One of the major causes of stalling is a dirty air injection system which is in the OBD2 cars. My stalling almost completely disappeared. My car was tuned by Lovefab and Cody has also tuned Curtsr which is also OBD2. The FIC definitely makes the car feel OEM but it does have some limitations regarding timing. I know that Curtsr had issues with the FIC which were fixed with the EMS.

 

[RYU]

Just to add to Jorligan's informative post.

The F/IC does not have the ability to advance timing. It can only retard the timing signal that the factory ECU is providing. Basically the F/IC 'intercepts' and reworks the timing and injector signal from the factory ECU. Pros: It relies on the ECU for everything else. Cons: It's limited in what you can do.

The TCS on the Infinity is even more advanced in technology than the EMS. It takes *hours* to properly tune the TCS even if it did work - I'm not sure if Shad knows for sure if it works or not or if he simply didn't bother with it.

Here's some very good info on this thread while I was evaluating the ProEFI EMS vs. the AEM EMS S2 vs. AEM Infinity. I also have some info via email I can dig up if folks want to know more about the EMS vs. Infinity TCS control. (unfortunately I was asking about the NA1 so unfortunately that's another layer of complexity you'll have to decipher in the thread)
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/121348-Guys-comment-if-somebody-used-PRO-EFI-EMS-on-NSX

 

[RYU]

Have you guys seen the latest HKS F-Con iS? It's HKS's version of the F/IC. It's actually pretty slick. Seems to have more advanced features than the AEM F/IC and a video out for monitoring a display (win!).
http://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/products/electronics/computer/f-con/is/index.html

Of course, your tune is only as good as your tuner. We're lucky to have one of the best tuners here in SoCal and his choice is HKS or Motec. Trying to figure out now if this F-Con iS can work with the early OBD1 NSXs or if it's OBD2 only.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Listen to Shad. There can be drivability issues with the SOS EMS. I have had both the FIC and SOS EMS on my car. I haven't had issues with the SOS EMS but do a search. You will also lose TC with the SOS EMS. Car also starts easier with the FIC and I NEVER had stalling issues with the FIC. Remember, the SOS EMS still requires the factory ECU to handle the DBW

Can you please describe what the drivability issues are? We have this on both our NSXs, as well as dozens of customer cars with out drivability issues. The standalone engine management system is literally a clean slate which requires proper tuning to achieve not only good performance, but good drivability as well. Also, please note factory traction control can be maintained on the 1995-2005 application. For your year & a basic supercharger system, we feel the F/IC is the better solution. If variables begin to be introduced (intercooling, turbocharging, etc) or your tuner simply prefers a stand alone engine management system, we then feel the Series 2 based solution is the best choice. As always, feel free to give us a call to discuss.

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In regards to the EMS and idle, they can be tuned out 99% of the time but it becomes more problematic when you use an aftermarket clutch and flywheel. At XPO, there were a number of OBD2 cars with the EMS and mine was the only one with essentially no stalling issues. One of the major causes of stalling is a dirty air injection system which is in the OBD2 cars. My stalling almost completely disappeared. My car was tuned by Lovefab and Cody has also tuned Curtsr which is also OBD2. The FIC definitely makes the car feel OEM but it does have some limitations regarding timing. I know that Curtsr had issues with the FIC which were fixed with the EMS.

The idle strategy is maintained by the factory ECU in both the Series 2 EMS & F/IC. So, stalling issues caused by a clutch would be the same no matter if the Series 2 or F/IC is place. I'm surprised to hear this was an issue however since we've installed our lighter weight clutch/flywheel in OBD2 drive by wire NSX. As you mention, the factory ECU's ability to recover from a stall can be caused by clogged air ports, so this should be checked.

Regarding traction control, to use the factory traction control, all factory sensors (including both primary and secondary O2 sensors on both cylinder banks) must be maintained. I believe the AEM traction system is the better solution for boosted cars however, which requires programming and setup to enable.

 

[jorligan]

No issues with stalling when I had the SOS carbon-carbon and the FIC. Switched to the EMS and when you accelerate hard and then push in the clutch, the engine speed would fall and then stall. Some retuning and this almost disappeared until I cleaned the throttle body and now it rarely happens. There was another car at XPO which had been tuned at UMS? that had the same issue and I had advised him to clean his throttle body. There is a posting somewhere about stalling with the EMS and I suspect that most of it is related to the throttle body. In regards to the traction control, I thought that you had told me that factory traction control with the OBD2 car was not possible with the factory ECU but achievable through the EMS itself.

Can you please describe what the drivability issues are? We have this on both our NSXs, as well as dozens of customer cars with out drivability issues. The standalone engine management system is literally a clean slate which requires proper tuning to achieve not only good performance, but good drivability as well. Also, please note factory traction control can be maintained on the 1995-2005 application. For your year & a basic supercharger system, we feel the F/IC is the better solution. If variables begin to be introduced (intercooling, turbocharging, etc) or your tuner simply prefers a stand alone engine management system, we then feel the Series 2 based solution is the best choice. As always, feel free to give us a call to discuss.

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The idle strategy is maintained by the factory ECU in both the Series 2 EMS & F/IC. So, stalling issues caused by a clutch would be the same no matter if the Series 2 or F/IC is place. I'm surprised to hear this was an issue however since we've installed our lighter weight clutch/flywheel in OBD2 drive by wire NSX. As you mention, the factory ECU's ability to recover from a stall can be caused by clogged air ports, so this should be checked.

Regarding traction control, to use the factory traction control, all factory sensors (including both primary and secondary O2 sensors on both cylinder banks) must be maintained. I believe the AEM traction system is the better solution for boosted cars however, which requires programming and setup to enable.

 

[nsxgmane]

Have you guys seen the latest HKS F-Con iS? It's HKS's version of the F/IC. It's actually pretty slick. Seems to have more advanced features than the AEM F/IC and a video out for monitoring a display (win!).
http://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/products/electronics/computer/f-con/is/index.html

Of course, your tune is only as good as your tuner. We're lucky to have one of the best tuners here in SoCal and his choice is HKS or Motec. Trying to figure out now if this F-Con iS can work with the early OBD1 NSXs or if it's OBD2 only.

Hey RYU,

I know this thread is extremely old and since then you’re running the FCON Pro I think, but did you ever find out if the fcon is works with the na1?? Also since you’ve got and FCON would you recommend an FCON for N/A tuning with a bunch of bolt-ons and maybe fuel injector upgrades? Does it retain just everyday drivability?

Thanks


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[RYU]

Hey RYU,

I know this thread is extremely old and since then you’re running the FCON Pro I think, but did you ever find out if the fcon is works with the na1?? Also since you’ve got and FCON would you recommend an FCON for N/A tuning with a bunch of bolt-ons and maybe fuel injector upgrades? Does it retain just everyday drivability?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, been very happy with it for several years thus far. I ran it on a stand-alone boosted application so it will do all of that.

 

[nsxgmane]

Yes, been very happy with it for several years thus far. I ran it on a stand-alone boosted application so it will do all of that.

Thanks for the reply.


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