I made a similar post at the end of the long "SPeak up" thread. I thought that this deserved a thread of it's own as I am sure many are interested in understanding what the situation is.
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Anyone know why Factor X pulled out of the BBSC deal?
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- Start date
Perhaps they didn't pull out.
Being a recent visitor of Factor X's shop, Id have to guess it had something to do with the BBQ'd NSX they had there with the BBSC in it....
--- ORIGINAL Comment removed... the childish hatemail ive received regarding this post is not necessary, I stated my opinion, and in somewhat of a joking manner and received personal attacks in my email box for it.. thanks but no thanks ---
-B
PS: This is purely my personal opinion, I don't know why Factor X pulled out, Im just taking a guess based upon the damage I saw done to an NSX that had a BBSC in it, and from the looks of whats left of the engine bay whoever was driving is lucky there was a fire extinguisher in the vehicle to tame the flame of that beast...
[This message has been edited by BoneZ (edited 12 June 2002).]
--- ORIGINAL Comment removed... the childish hatemail ive received regarding this post is not necessary, I stated my opinion, and in somewhat of a joking manner and received personal attacks in my email box for it.. thanks but no thanks ---
-B
PS: This is purely my personal opinion, I don't know why Factor X pulled out, Im just taking a guess based upon the damage I saw done to an NSX that had a BBSC in it, and from the looks of whats left of the engine bay whoever was driving is lucky there was a fire extinguisher in the vehicle to tame the flame of that beast...
[This message has been edited by BoneZ (edited 12 June 2002).]
Let me guess....
You own a GruppeM Supercharger?
That's what I love about this forum.
Speculation, innuendo, libel and fun for all!
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
You own a GruppeM Supercharger?
That's what I love about this forum.
Speculation, innuendo, libel and fun for all!
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
There are other reasons that lead to this decision, but we feel these forums are not the right place to discuss these matters.
Speed Safely,
Factor X Motorsports www.factorxmotorsports.com
Please excuse my behavior, any damage to a fellow NSX owner is nothing to laugh about, but...LOL!!!BBQ'd NSX, BBQSC?Nothing against Basch it's just that I find the abbreviations hilariously classic! I didn't catch it at first, but then you top it off asking, "Smores anyone?" You are too funny!LOL!!!
Wow what news.
Any more details on this car?? Specifics?
- was it running "production" BBSC boost level, fuel pressure, etc ??
- if it was running elevated boost, were specific reinforcements (block, sleeve, pistons, etc) taken ?
- hopefully no techs / owner / etc were injured
IMO some "collateral damage" with R&D of this nature is to be expected. Granted, these are $$ experiments, just like the early FI and turbo tweakers know all too well.
Hopefully it will yield better, more reliable, and safer products down the road.
DAMN, that BBQSC comment was pretty harsh....ouch, glad I'm not involved in that one....hehe....
Ummm...Does this mean the Hondata will be available for other applications now?
Well then I guess I'm toasting a marshmello as we speak.My BBSC will be done tomorrow.
Seriusly I have faith in the BBSC or I would not have it installed.
PS if something did go horribly wrong "I do know Mark would make it right".Nothing is guarenteed in this world exept to me a mans word.And Mark has "always" been that person at least from my experience.
Seriusly I have faith in the BBSC or I would not have it installed.
PS if something did go horribly wrong "I do know Mark would make it right".Nothing is guarenteed in this world exept to me a mans word.And Mark has "always" been that person at least from my experience.
Number9
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Faith indeed, not enough data here yet to support anything more.
Only some men's word - but with respect to Mark, I think we agree. Mark did my CTSC install and while it was not without hiccup, Mark promptly followed through and ensured that it was properly resolved (a manufacturing issue and not an installation issue, BTW).
And if you have the chance tomorrow, go immediately to your nearest dynojet and post the results. We're all still dying to know!
I dont understand hasn't anyone dynoed their cars??
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Only some men's word(quote)
I figured that was a given.
I do know this,I am an exellent judge of character.That does not mean that if I'll talk to you or I like you.It just means I'll tolerate you.(I'm not speaking of anyone specific at this point).
Further Mark Basch is selling me the BBSC and his ongoing service/ including any changes to the unit I'm purchasing.If I wanted a "perfect product" I'd probably not ever do anything I do.
I figured that was a given.
I do know this,I am an exellent judge of character.That does not mean that if I'll talk to you or I like you.It just means I'll tolerate you.(I'm not speaking of anyone specific at this point).
Further Mark Basch is selling me the BBSC and his ongoing service/ including any changes to the unit I'm purchasing.If I wanted a "perfect product" I'd probably not ever do anything I do.
PS... Do you not think there are things that have gone wrong during testing at other Large Corperations Vortech/Comptech etc.
I know we have set my drag car on fire 3 times never a major fire thanks to a halon system nethertheless ,a fire and left unattended I would have lost a hundred and twenty thousand dollar masterpiece.
If taking risks is what it takes to lead,
so be it move over and I'll lead.
MYNSX
I know we have set my drag car on fire 3 times never a major fire thanks to a halon system nethertheless ,a fire and left unattended I would have lost a hundred and twenty thousand dollar masterpiece.
If taking risks is what it takes to lead,
so be it move over and I'll lead.
MYNSX
Number9
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- 704
Odd definition of "large corporations" since they don't even rate on the M&A meter - and $120K is chump change so what's your point? You made your choice, more power to you, but don't pontificate to us.
Look, you didn't go turbo so price/performance is apparently important to you - so you chose budget power (at the top end) vs. streetability. No problem if that's your application. You want really big power and torque, go turbo. You want justification for your compromise? Tell it to someone who cares...
[This message has been edited by Number9 (edited 12 June 2002).]
Number9 its yer birthday its yer birthday ... *raises hands in the air waiving around* go boy go!!
You kill me man ... I about fell out of my chair laughing at that one....
At the next meet, yer lunch is on me
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But on a serious note, im sure many companies have faced issues when designing devices like these, it should be expected that there will be difficulties.
My question is.... do you think Comptech blew up customer cars before blowing up their own? .. Last I checked Comptech went through heavy in-house testing on their own vehicles before releasing what they felt was a safe product, even for beta testing.
Now my knowledge of the Basch install history isn't as strong as others... but has Basch had any other engine fires? Has he baked his own car? Did he test the product for weeks or months on end before ever even thinking of putting it into a "beta" car? (pronounced Guinea pig customer) Or were his potential customers his testing grounds? If his testing customers have problems and failures, is he helping with the costs of repairs of the product or are the beta testers eating the damage costs?
If you are having the BBSC installed, wouldn't you want to know the answers to these questions if your car has a failure?
Can anyone name a Comptech car that caught fire due to their supercharger? (Seriously, cause Id like to hear about it...) Or better yet, how about a GruppeM car? Being a GruppeM owner, Id REALLY be interested to hear if a GruppeM caught fire and baked the engine bay.
Anyone can speculate what happened... but the bottom line is only the individual in the vehicle can tell the story, and Im not that person.
All Im saying is the car was charred... and inside was a BBSC .. and from the damage viewed, the BBSC was the key factor in the BBQ'ing process.
If it was a production unit, non-production unit who knows ... I don't have much information other than seeing a crispy engine bay, which I pray for every future BBSC owner that you don't have the same thing happen to you, and that this was just a "fluke", because regardless we are all somewhat of a community of friends and NSX lovers, and the last thing I ever want to see on this message board is a post titled "BBSC blows up, driver/passenger stuck inside loses their life in fire...."
Basch may be an upstanding guy with a good product and good support, but can he warranty your life if you die in a BBSC engine fire? Is it a risk you are willing to take not having enough information about an early development product?
Yah we run the risk when we modify our cars but if a product has continual problems and is a liability I know Id sure as hell want to be aware of it way before I ever put it in my car, beta product or not...
Think about it ... safety is key... thats all Im saying. Questions are being asked, but answers are not being given...
-B
[This message has been edited by BoneZ (edited 12 June 2002).]
You kill me man ... I about fell out of my chair laughing at that one....
At the next meet, yer lunch is on me
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But on a serious note, im sure many companies have faced issues when designing devices like these, it should be expected that there will be difficulties.
My question is.... do you think Comptech blew up customer cars before blowing up their own? .. Last I checked Comptech went through heavy in-house testing on their own vehicles before releasing what they felt was a safe product, even for beta testing.
Now my knowledge of the Basch install history isn't as strong as others... but has Basch had any other engine fires? Has he baked his own car? Did he test the product for weeks or months on end before ever even thinking of putting it into a "beta" car? (pronounced Guinea pig customer) Or were his potential customers his testing grounds? If his testing customers have problems and failures, is he helping with the costs of repairs of the product or are the beta testers eating the damage costs?
If you are having the BBSC installed, wouldn't you want to know the answers to these questions if your car has a failure?
Can anyone name a Comptech car that caught fire due to their supercharger? (Seriously, cause Id like to hear about it...) Or better yet, how about a GruppeM car? Being a GruppeM owner, Id REALLY be interested to hear if a GruppeM caught fire and baked the engine bay.
Anyone can speculate what happened... but the bottom line is only the individual in the vehicle can tell the story, and Im not that person.
All Im saying is the car was charred... and inside was a BBSC .. and from the damage viewed, the BBSC was the key factor in the BBQ'ing process.
If it was a production unit, non-production unit who knows ... I don't have much information other than seeing a crispy engine bay, which I pray for every future BBSC owner that you don't have the same thing happen to you, and that this was just a "fluke", because regardless we are all somewhat of a community of friends and NSX lovers, and the last thing I ever want to see on this message board is a post titled "BBSC blows up, driver/passenger stuck inside loses their life in fire...."
Basch may be an upstanding guy with a good product and good support, but can he warranty your life if you die in a BBSC engine fire? Is it a risk you are willing to take not having enough information about an early development product?
Yah we run the risk when we modify our cars but if a product has continual problems and is a liability I know Id sure as hell want to be aware of it way before I ever put it in my car, beta product or not...
Think about it ... safety is key... thats all Im saying. Questions are being asked, but answers are not being given...
-B
[This message has been edited by BoneZ (edited 12 June 2002).]
Not trying to agree or disagree, just curious how you arrived at this conclusion. Please share.
You're right NSXTC, I suppose the conclusion is indeed an assumption.
However, when was the last time you heard about a normally aspirated NSX catching fire?
Forced induction causes problems, it doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that more induction, higher boost, and heavier loads will cause an engine to be more prone to failure.
I stated I didn't know the details of it being production or non-production, the only thing I can tell you is there was a BBSC under the glass.
Did the BBSC cause it? Maybe not the blower itself, but im sure the boost and increased pressure of induction had a big role in the cause of the damage. Again, my assumption based on 8 years of owning my NSX, and never hearing about a normally aspirated just "catching fire" out of the blue.
I raised a few questions and concerns about the product, legitimate questions I have about the development of the BBSC as 2 close NSX owners I know are having their BBSC's installed in a few weeks. I'd hate to see their cars damaged due to something that slipped through the cracks, so Im raising valid questions on the matter.
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Also, Ive received a few hate e-mails regarding my post on this thread. I, just like any of you have opinions, and have seen things with my own eyes that I commented about. If you don't want to hear about it, or don't wish to agree with me thats fine, I can respect that, but sending me negative hate e-mails on the topic is flat out stupid, and not necessary.
-B
However, when was the last time you heard about a normally aspirated NSX catching fire?
Forced induction causes problems, it doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that more induction, higher boost, and heavier loads will cause an engine to be more prone to failure.
I stated I didn't know the details of it being production or non-production, the only thing I can tell you is there was a BBSC under the glass.
Did the BBSC cause it? Maybe not the blower itself, but im sure the boost and increased pressure of induction had a big role in the cause of the damage. Again, my assumption based on 8 years of owning my NSX, and never hearing about a normally aspirated just "catching fire" out of the blue.
I raised a few questions and concerns about the product, legitimate questions I have about the development of the BBSC as 2 close NSX owners I know are having their BBSC's installed in a few weeks. I'd hate to see their cars damaged due to something that slipped through the cracks, so Im raising valid questions on the matter.
---
Also, Ive received a few hate e-mails regarding my post on this thread. I, just like any of you have opinions, and have seen things with my own eyes that I commented about. If you don't want to hear about it, or don't wish to agree with me thats fine, I can respect that, but sending me negative hate e-mails on the topic is flat out stupid, and not necessary.
-B
Wow, a mammoth price raise followed by a dropped vendor (FactorX) then followed by at least one full engine fire ("BBQSC" = best line all night) and finally no dyno plots or other information from any board members not affiliated with BBSC vendors in almost a month since the Texas BBSC meet.
That is damn grim.
However, the Dali BBSC car performed fairly well at the OTC last month with no major problems (that we know of) so the kit will likely get all of its bugs worked out soon...The real question is how many NSX engines is it going to take to get it squared away?
That is damn grim.
However, the Dali BBSC car performed fairly well at the OTC last month with no major problems (that we know of) so the kit will likely get all of its bugs worked out soon...The real question is how many NSX engines is it going to take to get it squared away?
Number9
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Good grief, this is sad! I've met Brent and Mark B. and they're both the best examples of the NSX community. Look, it's fine to disagree, but let's do this rationally and with decorum. Those of you who have sent hate mails to either of Mark and Brent, back to behind the woodshed with you... And does your mother let you kiss her with that mouth?
I hope you guys would put some faith with Mark Basch, as he seems to know what he is doing. With prototypes sometimes there are problems, but I have heard of Comptech Superchargers also causing engine fires. Actually one of the salvage NSX's I was looking for had an engine fire from a Comptech Supercharger. Lets just wait until the productions come out and then judge. There is no point on making false assumptions before the final product is released.
[This message has been edited by Cyan NSX (edited 12 June 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Cyan NSX (edited 12 June 2002).]
why is everyone trying to preach everyone into doing something they feel is right? let people do what they want and give up on telling evryone who/what is better..
Sorry to fan the flames, but NA NSXs have caught fire before. Ive come across more than one NA NSX sitting in a salvage yard with fire damage (only) in the engine bay. Ive also seen pics of several other cars whose battery/tiedown shorted and caught fire. So fires do happen in NA cars.
As for the BBSC/fire issue, I'd be interested in hearing eyewitness accounts of what led up to the fire or the results of a detailed post-mortem. I would hate to see such speculation kill off a new NSX product prematurely. Even if you are not a supporter of the BBSC, the successful entry of a new SC may benefit "your cause". The added competition it generates may eventually pressure CT/GM to lower their sky-high prices and then everyone wins.
