To make a long story short, I got shafted in the spring buying this accidented vehicle off a dishonest prime member from Florida. I bought this car with the intention of making it roadworthy, since I was told it had a regular rebuildable salvage title. In the end, the car showed up with a parts-only title and a laundry list of parts that were agreed to be included were mysteriously "missing". After 9 months of BS and broken promises, not to mention storage and cross-country hauling, I figure the odds of the guy coming clean on this are pretty slim.
This car was at one point last year advertised here on NSXPrime:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54463
However, I only became aware of it after Armando PM'd me in reply to my request for a chassis in the wanted forum.
He told me it had a rebuildable salvage title - which was asked several times to be clear - and it doesn't. It has a parts only "certificate of destruction" title, never to see the road again. No way that was an honest mistake. He had already cashed my money orders and I had paid $1500+ for enclosed cross country shipping before I found out the truth.
It was supposed to come with the 18" rims in those pictures, plus stock wheels. It arrived on stockers with bad rubber. It was suppose to come with "everything except the engine" because he was rebuilding that for his other project. It arrived missing clutch/flywheel, ECU, engine wiring, second set of wheels, headlights, and a host of other major (and expensive) components stripped, all of which were EXPLICITLY spelled out to be included. It was supposed to come with the 02+ rear valence bumper, and the OEM skirts. He went to the trouble of removing it with the original bumper stock before shipping. Mileage was supposed to be "just over 100K". Odometer reads 138,000 miles.
He's excuses and not replying to my calls or emails for 9 months. I paid in full in March. I left a not-so-subtle reminder in one of his for-sale threads, and I got more BS promises that parts would me coming in the mail. Check it yourself if you're curious...
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75936
I specifically bought this car from him because he had good reputation in the florida community, and I got repaid for my blind trust by getting screwed over bigtime. I let my guard down and trusted a stranger on this one, and it came back to bite me pretty hard. I've bought hundreds of things off forums without issue. Live and learn I suppose.
I am without recourse, and I've written off any hope of receiving any of the parts I'm owed. And the title lie is the biggest burn. If I was missing a few parts, I could have just bought them and chaulked it up as added project cost. But I bought this car AND another parts car in order to put this one back on the street. Without a useable title, I never would have considered this vehicle.
---------
For those who have suggested in the other thread this isn't the "full" story, here are some copies emails received. Sadly, I can't prove the many phone conversions regarding this transaction, but the emails summarize the major problem parts. After my "complaint" email about the title/parts missing, I didn't receive any futher contact or returned calls. Notice that when a question requiring a hard answer was asked, it was never replied to. The only editing I did was removing personal information and shortening sections where there was no issue or regarding transport arrangements, timelines etc.
-----------
from Armando <[email protected]>
to (me)
date Feb 22, 2006 8:31 AM
subject NSX
Sean yes the car is located in South Florida, and I do have the title. We are removing the motor this week as we are planning a stroker motor rebuild for another car. The car will be on a rolling chassis and includes everything but the drivetrain.
Armando
------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxt>
date Feb 22, 2006 11:57 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
Thanks for the fast reply. However, a few questions for you. (Cute dog in the pictures, BTW).
Looks very promising, price seems fair at first glance, I think I can put that back on the road no problem for a decent price. But as I'm sure you know with this type of project, usually it's the little things that add up incredibly fast. So here come a million questions for you
Manual transmission? Mileage? Any history/paperwork with the car or is all unknown?
You mentioned the motor is coming out for another project, no problem with that, I'm assuming that's why you bought this car in the first place...
However, are you planning on removing the longblock only?
Can I count on having full wiring harness, A/C components, transmission, ECU, motor mounts, clutch/flywheel, axles, cradle, etc?
Anything other than the obvious collision damage and missing spoiler that has been stripped off the car that I'd have to factor in to replace? Nice rims, those going with it or do you have stockers?
I can't see the interior from the pic is it complete, in decent shape? Both bags deployed?
Can you tell me where exactly in Florida so I can mapquest the drive? I'm way up by NY state, but it's not a bad drive down the coast. I have a truck and flatbed that can accomodate it no problem.
I just want to make sure we both agree on what the deal is before I make the long drive to come see/buy it
Can you please also leave me your contact phone number?
So you figure the motor can be out and it would be ready to be taken off your hands first week of March?
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
Armando <gcac36@xxxxxxx>
to Sean
date Feb 22, 2006 1:17 PM
subject RE: NSX
It was my car prior, it was stolen and found 3 blocks from my house. I purchased another car and replaced all my go fast parts into the new one.
We only need the long block, all else, tranny (snap ring) axles, suspension and wheels stay with the car.
"Can I count on having full wiring harness, A/C components, transmission, ECU, motor mounts, clutch/flywheel, axles, cradle, etc?"
Yes
"Anything other than the obvious collision damage and missing spoiler that has been stripped off the car that I'd have to factor in to replace? Nice rims, those going with it or do you have stockers? "
I have stock rims plus a set that I will throw in. I also have the factory wing. I also have and extra set of side skirts (stock) as the ones that are on the car are Wings west.
1992 only has one air bag and it did deploy. Interior is in good shape it is minus the radio as I had an aftermarket in there, but I have the stock one. I also have a bunch of parts that I will send along with the car.
Armando
------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxx>
date Feb 22, 2006 1:36 PM
subject Re: NSX
Thanks again Armando.
Everything sounds great. Those are all the answers I was looking for, except one I think you forgot. The approximate mileage on the car?
I see you have 3500+ posts and good feedback, which is what I like to see when buying expensive things sight-unseen.
How much of a deposit would you want to consider it sold?
I may actually fly in with the wife for a weekend of fun in the sun, pick your brain for a bit, and then ship it out instead of towing. With the price of gas these days, a 24hr drive, and a 10mpg truck it might actually be cheaper that way. Would you be OK with that? About how far are you from Miami airport?
Best Regards,
Sean
---------
from Armando <gcac36@xxxx
to Sean
date Feb 22, 2006 1:54 PM
subject RE: NSX
"Thanks again Armando.
Everything sounds great. Those are all the answers I was looking for, except one I think you forgot. The approximate mileage on the car?"
The car has about 100,000 miles, the suspension that I transplanted from the other car had about 60,000 miles.
"I see you have 3500+ posts and good feedback, which is what I like to see when buying expensive things sight-unseen. "
Although it would be easy for you to find people on PRIME that I piss off, it certainly wouldn’t be because of lying or bullshitting them.
--------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxx
date Mar 15, 2006 10:36 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hello Armando,
Excellent, glad to hear it! I tried to call you at your office, but the nice lady who answered the phone mentioned you were working on site. I'll try calling again around lunch time.
Did you want me to send the funds to your work address or home address (fedex)?
Payable to Armando Colls?
And also is this still the address where the car will be able to be pickup from in the next week or two? Or if it is different, just let me know.
I hope once you receive the funds, I'd appreciate it if you could fedex/ups me back the title for the car. I'll need it to get insurance and ownership issues taken care of asap, just on the odd chance something bad were to happen to the car before it gets picked up or while it is in transit.
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
from Armando <gcac36
to Sean
date Mar 15, 2006 1:45 PM
subject RE: NSX
Sean,
The car will be at the address below, you can send the check there also under my name.
Send me a mailing address and I will overnight the title to you.
Thanks
Armando
--------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxx
date Mar 16, 2006 6:25 PM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
Today we sent off the certified money orders to your work address.
I sent it overnight UPS, so you should have it tomorrow morning. I also included a copy of Laura's drivers licence, as well as my business card. I also included my bank branch manager's business card just in case you have any concerns.
The tracking number is xxxxxxxxxx
You can track it at UPS.com if needed.
If you can send the title to me at the following address, that would be great.
You can even send it collect to my company account, UPS account # XXXXXX if it is easier for you.
Use the fastest service if you don't mind, I have a bunch of paperwork I'll have to fill out to get the car exported to Canada. Next day or Saturday delivery is perfect if you get my payment package in time.
Here is my work mailing address for the title:
XXXXXX
The transporter guy (Gary) mentioned he has an empty run space to take the car as early as Monday. That's faster than I had expected, but he's giving me a great rate so I'm trying to accomodate his schedule as much as possible. If you don't think that's enough time to get the car ready to transport, I understand, we'll just wait for the next empty south-to-north run. I have given him your cell phone number as a contact, like we discussed on the phone.
Once again I appreciate all the help getting this arranged!
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxx
date Mar 28, 2006 3:10 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
The car arrived safely in NY state over the weekend. Looks good, but there are a few minor issues and one major problem.
First, the major one. What you sent me isn't a title at all, it's junk certificate. It says right on it that "when a Certificate of Destruction has been issued, the Department will refuse the issuance of any Certificate of Title for that Vehicle/Vessel". That means I can't get a title for it at all, as it stands.
This is a major problem for me, since quite literally I can't bring the car over the border with a junk (parts only) certificate with any expectation to rebuild it. I had no choice but to put the car into storage on the NY side of the border. A salvage title is no problem, but a junk certificate means the car will never see the road again. Honestly, with no title, the car isn't much use to me.
I'm looking into getting it "washed" into a regular salvage title through another state, but I have no idea how that works. If I can't do that, I'm pretty much screwed. I'll have to part it out, and I'm going to take a major bath on the car if that ends up being the case.
Some of the smaller issues that I think are easier to address. I'm hoping the rush to get the car transported was the reason for some of these problems came up:
- The car came with only the stock rims. Did you forget about the aftermarket set you mentioned were going with the car? Same with the side skirts. The hood came, but no headlights (although those weren't part of the original arrangement, it would have been nice). No clutch or flywheel came either. All those are parts I'm pretty sure we agreed would be included in there. Interior looks more or less all there, and I see the axles/halfshaft are there also, which is great. The ECU has also been removed from the car. Clearly, I need this also, I hope you have it handy somewhere.
- Mileage. You mentioned the car had "about 100,000 miles". The odometer in the car reads 138,000. That's a heck of a spread, is that the correct mileage? Is this the original odometer?
Let me know if you have any suggestions or thoughts on the above issues...
Best Regards,
Sean
------------
from Armando <gcac36@xxx
to Sean
date Mar 28, 2006 12:24 PM
subject RE: NSX
All the additional parts you mentioned I have an because of the rush were left behind, I will ship as soon as I get through some recent surgery along with the wheels. As for the odometer we exchanged it with the other car I got so 100,000 miles is accurate sorry for the confusion.
Armando
------------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxx
date Mar 28, 2006 4:29 PM
subject Re: NSX
Thanks for the fast reply, I hope you have a speedy recovery from the surgery.
Just email me when you're back up and around and I'll send you my ship-to address in NY.
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxx
date May 4, 2006 3:22 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
I hope you've recovering from the surgery OK.
I need to get these missing parts sooner than later, it's been draggin on for some time and the longer it goes the less confident I am that I'll be getting the remaining pieces.
Here is my full address, I hope you can get a chance to send the parts some time this week or early next week. Specifically the ECU & engine harness, flywheel clutch and rims are most important, since those parts are the most valuable and difficult for me to replace.
(all contact included again, home and work)
Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
Also attached were the original photos I was shown of the car for sale. These photos were attached to the message dated Feb 22. Notice from the pictures to what I received, the 02 bumpers were removed, exhaust changed, rims removed, etc.
---
Oh, and I just noticed the front calipers, lines and rotors are also mysteriously missing. Maybe they accidently fell off the car in transit?
This car was at one point last year advertised here on NSXPrime:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54463
However, I only became aware of it after Armando PM'd me in reply to my request for a chassis in the wanted forum.
He told me it had a rebuildable salvage title - which was asked several times to be clear - and it doesn't. It has a parts only "certificate of destruction" title, never to see the road again. No way that was an honest mistake. He had already cashed my money orders and I had paid $1500+ for enclosed cross country shipping before I found out the truth.
It was supposed to come with the 18" rims in those pictures, plus stock wheels. It arrived on stockers with bad rubber. It was suppose to come with "everything except the engine" because he was rebuilding that for his other project. It arrived missing clutch/flywheel, ECU, engine wiring, second set of wheels, headlights, and a host of other major (and expensive) components stripped, all of which were EXPLICITLY spelled out to be included. It was supposed to come with the 02+ rear valence bumper, and the OEM skirts. He went to the trouble of removing it with the original bumper stock before shipping. Mileage was supposed to be "just over 100K". Odometer reads 138,000 miles.
He's excuses and not replying to my calls or emails for 9 months. I paid in full in March. I left a not-so-subtle reminder in one of his for-sale threads, and I got more BS promises that parts would me coming in the mail. Check it yourself if you're curious...
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75936
I specifically bought this car from him because he had good reputation in the florida community, and I got repaid for my blind trust by getting screwed over bigtime. I let my guard down and trusted a stranger on this one, and it came back to bite me pretty hard. I've bought hundreds of things off forums without issue. Live and learn I suppose.
I am without recourse, and I've written off any hope of receiving any of the parts I'm owed. And the title lie is the biggest burn. If I was missing a few parts, I could have just bought them and chaulked it up as added project cost. But I bought this car AND another parts car in order to put this one back on the street. Without a useable title, I never would have considered this vehicle.
---------
For those who have suggested in the other thread this isn't the "full" story, here are some copies emails received. Sadly, I can't prove the many phone conversions regarding this transaction, but the emails summarize the major problem parts. After my "complaint" email about the title/parts missing, I didn't receive any futher contact or returned calls. Notice that when a question requiring a hard answer was asked, it was never replied to. The only editing I did was removing personal information and shortening sections where there was no issue or regarding transport arrangements, timelines etc.
-----------
from Armando <[email protected]>
to (me)
date Feb 22, 2006 8:31 AM
subject NSX
Sean yes the car is located in South Florida, and I do have the title. We are removing the motor this week as we are planning a stroker motor rebuild for another car. The car will be on a rolling chassis and includes everything but the drivetrain.
Armando
------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxt>
date Feb 22, 2006 11:57 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
Thanks for the fast reply. However, a few questions for you. (Cute dog in the pictures, BTW).
Looks very promising, price seems fair at first glance, I think I can put that back on the road no problem for a decent price. But as I'm sure you know with this type of project, usually it's the little things that add up incredibly fast. So here come a million questions for you
Manual transmission? Mileage? Any history/paperwork with the car or is all unknown?
You mentioned the motor is coming out for another project, no problem with that, I'm assuming that's why you bought this car in the first place...
However, are you planning on removing the longblock only?
Can I count on having full wiring harness, A/C components, transmission, ECU, motor mounts, clutch/flywheel, axles, cradle, etc?
Anything other than the obvious collision damage and missing spoiler that has been stripped off the car that I'd have to factor in to replace? Nice rims, those going with it or do you have stockers?
I can't see the interior from the pic is it complete, in decent shape? Both bags deployed?
Can you tell me where exactly in Florida so I can mapquest the drive? I'm way up by NY state, but it's not a bad drive down the coast. I have a truck and flatbed that can accomodate it no problem.
I just want to make sure we both agree on what the deal is before I make the long drive to come see/buy it
Can you please also leave me your contact phone number?
So you figure the motor can be out and it would be ready to be taken off your hands first week of March?
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
Armando <gcac36@xxxxxxx>
to Sean
date Feb 22, 2006 1:17 PM
subject RE: NSX
It was my car prior, it was stolen and found 3 blocks from my house. I purchased another car and replaced all my go fast parts into the new one.
We only need the long block, all else, tranny (snap ring) axles, suspension and wheels stay with the car.
"Can I count on having full wiring harness, A/C components, transmission, ECU, motor mounts, clutch/flywheel, axles, cradle, etc?"
Yes
"Anything other than the obvious collision damage and missing spoiler that has been stripped off the car that I'd have to factor in to replace? Nice rims, those going with it or do you have stockers? "
I have stock rims plus a set that I will throw in. I also have the factory wing. I also have and extra set of side skirts (stock) as the ones that are on the car are Wings west.
1992 only has one air bag and it did deploy. Interior is in good shape it is minus the radio as I had an aftermarket in there, but I have the stock one. I also have a bunch of parts that I will send along with the car.
Armando
------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxx>
date Feb 22, 2006 1:36 PM
subject Re: NSX
Thanks again Armando.
Everything sounds great. Those are all the answers I was looking for, except one I think you forgot. The approximate mileage on the car?
I see you have 3500+ posts and good feedback, which is what I like to see when buying expensive things sight-unseen.
How much of a deposit would you want to consider it sold?
I may actually fly in with the wife for a weekend of fun in the sun, pick your brain for a bit, and then ship it out instead of towing. With the price of gas these days, a 24hr drive, and a 10mpg truck it might actually be cheaper that way. Would you be OK with that? About how far are you from Miami airport?
Best Regards,
Sean
---------
from Armando <gcac36@xxxx
to Sean
date Feb 22, 2006 1:54 PM
subject RE: NSX
"Thanks again Armando.
Everything sounds great. Those are all the answers I was looking for, except one I think you forgot. The approximate mileage on the car?"
The car has about 100,000 miles, the suspension that I transplanted from the other car had about 60,000 miles.
"I see you have 3500+ posts and good feedback, which is what I like to see when buying expensive things sight-unseen. "
Although it would be easy for you to find people on PRIME that I piss off, it certainly wouldn’t be because of lying or bullshitting them.
--------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxx
date Mar 15, 2006 10:36 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hello Armando,
Excellent, glad to hear it! I tried to call you at your office, but the nice lady who answered the phone mentioned you were working on site. I'll try calling again around lunch time.
Did you want me to send the funds to your work address or home address (fedex)?
Payable to Armando Colls?
And also is this still the address where the car will be able to be pickup from in the next week or two? Or if it is different, just let me know.
I hope once you receive the funds, I'd appreciate it if you could fedex/ups me back the title for the car. I'll need it to get insurance and ownership issues taken care of asap, just on the odd chance something bad were to happen to the car before it gets picked up or while it is in transit.
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
from Armando <gcac36
to Sean
date Mar 15, 2006 1:45 PM
subject RE: NSX
Sean,
The car will be at the address below, you can send the check there also under my name.
Send me a mailing address and I will overnight the title to you.
Thanks
Armando
--------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxx
date Mar 16, 2006 6:25 PM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
Today we sent off the certified money orders to your work address.
I sent it overnight UPS, so you should have it tomorrow morning. I also included a copy of Laura's drivers licence, as well as my business card. I also included my bank branch manager's business card just in case you have any concerns.
The tracking number is xxxxxxxxxx
You can track it at UPS.com if needed.
If you can send the title to me at the following address, that would be great.
You can even send it collect to my company account, UPS account # XXXXXX if it is easier for you.
Use the fastest service if you don't mind, I have a bunch of paperwork I'll have to fill out to get the car exported to Canada. Next day or Saturday delivery is perfect if you get my payment package in time.
Here is my work mailing address for the title:
XXXXXX
The transporter guy (Gary) mentioned he has an empty run space to take the car as early as Monday. That's faster than I had expected, but he's giving me a great rate so I'm trying to accomodate his schedule as much as possible. If you don't think that's enough time to get the car ready to transport, I understand, we'll just wait for the next empty south-to-north run. I have given him your cell phone number as a contact, like we discussed on the phone.
Once again I appreciate all the help getting this arranged!
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxxx
date Mar 28, 2006 3:10 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
The car arrived safely in NY state over the weekend. Looks good, but there are a few minor issues and one major problem.
First, the major one. What you sent me isn't a title at all, it's junk certificate. It says right on it that "when a Certificate of Destruction has been issued, the Department will refuse the issuance of any Certificate of Title for that Vehicle/Vessel". That means I can't get a title for it at all, as it stands.
This is a major problem for me, since quite literally I can't bring the car over the border with a junk (parts only) certificate with any expectation to rebuild it. I had no choice but to put the car into storage on the NY side of the border. A salvage title is no problem, but a junk certificate means the car will never see the road again. Honestly, with no title, the car isn't much use to me.
I'm looking into getting it "washed" into a regular salvage title through another state, but I have no idea how that works. If I can't do that, I'm pretty much screwed. I'll have to part it out, and I'm going to take a major bath on the car if that ends up being the case.
Some of the smaller issues that I think are easier to address. I'm hoping the rush to get the car transported was the reason for some of these problems came up:
- The car came with only the stock rims. Did you forget about the aftermarket set you mentioned were going with the car? Same with the side skirts. The hood came, but no headlights (although those weren't part of the original arrangement, it would have been nice). No clutch or flywheel came either. All those are parts I'm pretty sure we agreed would be included in there. Interior looks more or less all there, and I see the axles/halfshaft are there also, which is great. The ECU has also been removed from the car. Clearly, I need this also, I hope you have it handy somewhere.
- Mileage. You mentioned the car had "about 100,000 miles". The odometer in the car reads 138,000. That's a heck of a spread, is that the correct mileage? Is this the original odometer?
Let me know if you have any suggestions or thoughts on the above issues...
Best Regards,
Sean
------------
from Armando <gcac36@xxx
to Sean
date Mar 28, 2006 12:24 PM
subject RE: NSX
All the additional parts you mentioned I have an because of the rush were left behind, I will ship as soon as I get through some recent surgery along with the wheels. As for the odometer we exchanged it with the other car I got so 100,000 miles is accurate sorry for the confusion.
Armando
------------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxx
date Mar 28, 2006 4:29 PM
subject Re: NSX
Thanks for the fast reply, I hope you have a speedy recovery from the surgery.
Just email me when you're back up and around and I'll send you my ship-to address in NY.
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------------
from Sean
to Armando <gcac36@xxxx
date May 4, 2006 3:22 AM
subject Re: NSX
Hi Armando,
I hope you've recovering from the surgery OK.
I need to get these missing parts sooner than later, it's been draggin on for some time and the longer it goes the less confident I am that I'll be getting the remaining pieces.
Here is my full address, I hope you can get a chance to send the parts some time this week or early next week. Specifically the ECU & engine harness, flywheel clutch and rims are most important, since those parts are the most valuable and difficult for me to replace.
(all contact included again, home and work)
Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
Sean
-------------
Also attached were the original photos I was shown of the car for sale. These photos were attached to the message dated Feb 22. Notice from the pictures to what I received, the 02 bumpers were removed, exhaust changed, rims removed, etc.
---
Oh, and I just noticed the front calipers, lines and rotors are also mysteriously missing. Maybe they accidently fell off the car in transit?
