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BaschBoost update, from MB

NSXTech

NSXTech

Experienced Member
Joined
13 July 2001
Messages
593
Location
Woodstock Ga. N of Atlanta
To All my Boost inquisitive friends. The updated BB on my own car now has over 3500 miles since returning home from NSXPO and being retrofitted with the new flexible coupler. Some of you have heard that we took the SC off line at NSXPO because the rigid coupler was getting noisier than hell. Well, the flexible coulers were actually on the drawing board, but not sourced in time for NSXPO but were practically waiting for me when we returned. I have made two trips to the San Diego store plus a trip to Pasadena and a trip to Vegas for SEMA for a total as of last night of 3400 trouble free miles. One of the San Diego beta testers is also retrofitted, and MJ's 3.2 will be done today, and Chris Wilsons will be done tomorrow. For the ultimate in reliability and hard use testing, we have rented the entire track at Pahrump for the whole day November 15, for Greg Hardee's B-Day, and will have AT LEAST 4, if not 5, BaschBoost equipped cars at the track for all day testing. I can't speak for the other owners, but my car is always available for test drives WHEREVER you can catch up with me, including at the track so if you are near Las Vegas next week, come by and watch us tear up the Z06's that live at the track for their in house driving schools.

On other matters, I have decided to do the CARB thing after all. I believe the kit will qualify, and though I was not going to spend the money, or give them my car for an unspecified amount of time, I have had a change of heart.Even if I filed tomorrow, I suspect it will still be at least 3 or 4 months. That's just what the process takes.

I have had a ton of questions about boost levels. The standard kit will run 5 psi and generate AT LEAST 100 rwhp. That is the only number that is 100 per cent detonation free with no other mods. There will be a 6.5 or 7 psi kit available very shortly with a Spearco cooler and stand alone water system that will be substantially more power, and of course, more money. I see alot of comments that say somethinglike, "1500. just for an intercooler?" Well, he cooler cores are very expensive, especially in custom size's and shapes, plus the radiator and pump etc I suspect the kit will be at least a 2000. upgrade. Pricing is still in the suspense mode.

And lastly, as to when the beta testing will be over- The beta testing will be over when I decide, and only when I decide, that the amount of trouble free miles and track events that we have accomplished, is impressive to ME, for ANY new product that I would be evaluating for you all as a group, regardless of who makes it. And my standards are pretty darn high, as most of you know.
If I can keep up thisschedule oftrips, and my other beta testers can do the same, I suspect that might be sometime this month or next. Keep your eyes and ears open.

And thank you, ALL of you who have made so many inquiries, and sent so many letters of encouragement and support for what I have built. It is truly heartwarming to be appreciated for things that you do, and you all make me feel very much appreciated.

Cheers,and
SuperCharge for World Peace.
Mark Basch
 
Thanls for the update Mark, we all really appreciate the time and hard work that you have put in this project.

------------------
Jason
 
Mark, we all appreciate updates from M/M since you guys are invoilved in the project.

However, a few details seem to have been left unanswered. Can you give detailis if the NSX-T especially with 3.2L will need after market strut bars and whether you/Dali are making your own or net?

Also with at least 100 rwhp, I am suspecting a newer clutch will be a must. Are you upgrdaing any of the current aftermarket clutches available to match such hp?

And finally, one would suspect based on prior comments on the lists that the oem exhaust will not last, I would suspect perhaps that is true for most aftermarket exhausts as well perhaps with the exception of Comptech. Would the Finstar, Tietac, DC, (an now I guess TUBI and Borla) withstand such hp?

Thanks,

Hrant
 
If you drive it properly, the stock clutch will work with more power. It may not last quite as long, but there wouldn't be any need to change it until it is worn out. At that point you can decide if you want to go aftermarket or not. Almost all of the aftermarket clutches out there will handle the power with no problem.
 
Originally posted by Hrant:
Mark, we all appreciate updates from M/M since you guys are invoilved in the project.

However, a few details seem to have been left unanswered. Can you give detailis if the NSX-T especially with 3.2L will need after market strut bars and whether you/Dali are making your own or net?

>>I am doing my first 99 T next weekend in SoCal. The 3.2 I did already was in a coupe, so we don't yet know precisely what fit issues will result untill we do. Our measurements indicate everything should fit with all existing parts, but you never know for sure untill you do the install.

Also with at least 100 rwhp, I am suspecting a newer clutch will be a must. Are you upgrdaing any of the current aftermarket clutches available to match such hp?

>>Of the fifty-plus NSX SC's I have already done, at least half still have factory clutches. While true that we are talking at least 30 more hp with my kit, I have no reason to think a factory clutch won't hold up if used correctly. By this I mean that the pedal must always be completely released before power is applied. Drag racing will certainly fifnish off a factory clutch however and for this use NO NSX clutch will last "normal" life spans. I use Dali's performance rebuild by Centerforce. It has almost 30k SC'd miles on my NSX and going strong. If it failed tomorrow I feel I got my moneys worth considering it has spent its whole life at 7 or 8 pounds of boost and now has the hp bumped an extra 40.

And finally, one would suspect based on prior comments on the lists that the oem exhaust will not last, I would suspect perhaps that is true for most aftermarket exhausts as well perhaps with the exception of Comptech. Would the Finstar, Tietac, DC, (an now I guess TUBI and Borla) withstand such hp?

>>SC's and turbos causing exhausts to fail is a myth, as far as I'm concerned, in NSX's at least. The factory exhaust is so low restrictive it will not suffer from the SC. At least 10 or more of the cars I have SC'd have stock exhausts with no problems at all.
The RM exhaust is the only one I know of that repeatedly has baffle failure but this is just as common in NA NSX's as in Forced Ind NSX's, from my experience. Any of the exhausts you mention should work just fine, as should the factory.

Hrant, if you want to upgrade these other items, you don't need an excuse!,<BG> at least not in my shop.

Cheers,
Mark Basch

Thanks,

Hrant
Click to expand...



[This message has been edited by NSXTech (edited 06 November 2001).]
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
I have some concerns on the fuel managment for this kit? How is it that there has been no talk about fuel managment? What does this kit use? Every other kit comes with injectors, does this one?
Click to expand...

When the BBSC kit goes "gold" and is out of the Beta stage what parts are being used for the fuel management will be outlined in the shipping kit specs. Right now MB is trying several ways to regulate the added fuel needs. "Every other kit" does not come with new injectors - call Comptech and ask them what is in their standard kit. The GruppeM ships with JDM Honda injectors, and the CT 9lb kit ships with the same ones.[now] (as soon as they found out about them <g>) They flow ~ 20% more fuel from what I read. The 'A" kit may or may not need them at the boost level we are currently using. Specs are "subject to change" of course based on the test results we get at the track. (see MB's post above)

------------------
need more info? please private me @

[email protected]

Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Mark, First of all thank you for the offer of a private conversation but I think inquiring minds want to know. Based off your(or Mr. Baschs) horsepower claims of 100rwhp @5psi I dont see it. I was hopping you would be able to share with us how the impossible physics work. one, how safe is it to run 90 plus percent duty cycle on the injectors.Isn't there a point when alotta fuel pressure is to much? Second, How is it that this kit produces so much mre power than anything else on the market. Is it good engineering or wishfull thinking. I understand your silence on a lot of issues but if you guys are going to continue to make claims on how great this product is I think it would be nice for you share some of the realities of physics.
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight, you just registered, have a total of two posts and you are making accusations that you can't back up.

I have a Comptech Supercharger with 6lb boost on a 3.2 and it uses the stock injectors. It has a unit that when at full throttle increases the voltage to the fuel pump to generate more fuel pressure. What data do you have that says that the injectors are running at 90 plus percent duty cycle? Even if they are it would only be during full acceleration, so what is the problem with that?

As far as questioning their claims of added h.p., I understand they run the car on the dyno before and after the install and you are guaranteed 100 rwhp. Has anyone else made this type of guarantee? Do you see any way that this would be inaccurate?

Why do you think they should explain the Physics to you? The intake on the NSX is truly a work of art, I believe that using forced induction and keeping the same intake is one of the reasons that they are generating so much power. To tell you the truth though, if I see my car running 100+rwhp on the dyno after the install I don't care exactly how they do it.

P.S. How did you come up with your user name? Did you just type a bunch of characters? Try not to troll around here it doesn't work too well.

[This message has been edited by Carguy! (edited 06 November 2001).]
 
Originally posted by lemansnsx:
Hmmm, gibberish user name, no e-mail address given, puts down "stuff" as occupation...
I'm thinking that Lud needs to require real names and e-mail verification...
Click to expand...

I agree, I for one can do without users like this.

I wonder why he wouldn't take Mark up on a private conversation? Maybe he is afraid Mark might recognize his voice or he doesn't want him to know his email address, a competitor maybe?

I doubt we will hear from this Troll again
 
Originally posted by lemansnsx:
I'm thinking that Lud needs to require real names and e-mail verification...
Click to expand...

I agree. My initial user name to prime was something like '98nsx-t. Soon after I joining prime I joined a shifter kart forum that required first and last name as your username. I learned on that forum that the quality of posts increased and the bs reduced when you had to stand behind your statement with a name vs. a veil of secrecy. Because of that I changed my old username on prime to the current one.
 
Carguy, Heh Thanks for the help...... My point exatly. Your not claiming 100 rwhp on stock car. What does your car put down? I guerentee its on the raggad edge of fuel issues..... There are 2 problems here. Are you drag racing or road racing.for example it may be ok to run you car at hi egt for short blasts but when it comes to the track and or freeway blasts your exaust temps fly and your poistons melt. Do you have a EGT in your car? How do I know about the duty cycle?Do the math.... The comes a time that with so much fuel pressure at such high duty cycle the injectors simply cant open and close fast enough and they freeze. And guess what, if you think that just simply raising voltage to your pump is going to help....Good luck, Weather you raise fuel pressure that way or with a rising rate regualator the result is the same. As far as basch... I am questioning there figures...heh great if it does, but based off there seacracy who knows? Thanks for looking me up.... Yea ,I just singed up because now due to the fact that the board desent accept hotmail. As far as my user name look closely and you will see that they are the old model and new model codes for the cars I own.

If the way comptech handles their fuel managment isn't sufficient, why hasn't any of their cars had problems? I recently took my supercharged car out to Road America and didn't have any problems, there where quite a few other SC cars out there also. I know of a few guys that track their cars all of the time with Comptechs setup and haven't had a problem.

What exactly is your concern with Comptech's fuel managment? Do you have any proof whatsoever that there is a problem?

I have about 75rwhp increase with the Comptech, I also noticed a dramatic increase in torque. Do I believe that an improved setup can attain over 100rwhp at the wheels? Yep, I have seen the dyno's and have no doubts about their validity. If you want I will place a wager with you that on the next install we will check the dyno results before and after and if it is over 100rwhp I win, if not you win. Lets make this wager worthwhile for both of us so that we can pay for our plane tickets, how about 5K? I have met Mark Basch once and talked with him on the phone a couple times and I believe if he claims 100hp than I will wager on it. If it will make you feel beter we can use your car.
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Based off your(or Mr. Baschs) horsepower claims of 100rwhp @5psi I dont see it. I was hopping you would be able to share with us how the impossible physics work. one, how safe is it to run 90 plus percent duty cycle on the injectors.Isn't there a point when alotta fuel pressure is to much? Second, How is it that this kit produces so much mre power than anything else on the market. Is it good engineering or wishfull thinking.
Click to expand...

I guess you don't know Mark Basch and aren't familiar with his reputation. Mark is the top NSX mechanic in the country. He works on NSX's, and only NSX's (although he runs a shop and employs other mechanics who work on other Honda/Acura products). He has installed something like five times more superchargers on NSX's than anyone else in the country (thirty the last time he was counting, but I'm sure it's much higher by now).

He is also the most honest guy in the business. He would never make a claim that he couldn't back up. And you can see from his approach that he won't put a product on the market until he himself - the most discriminating customer of all - is satisfied with its results and reliability.

I find your insults and accusations towards Mark Basch highly offensive and absolutely unjustifiable. FWIW, I think that this is the reason people are questioning your identity; as I see it, though, the real issue is the ignorance and tactlessness implicit in your statements.
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Carguy, First of all, There is a big difference between the comptech and basch superchargers.My concern is not with the comptech it is a very well built system and 75 at the wheels is right for that system.Its the basch I have questions on. I don't think your ego or your wallet need to be involved. What needs to hapen is that Mark b or Mark J in answer my questions. Ok so it does 100 rwhp more. Prove it? Not with dyno results but with cold hard data. I hate when everyone gets so defensive.... What about all of us that dont already have a supercharger and need all the facts to make a decision. Do you think Comptech would answer my questions? I bet you they would.... Do you think the basch boost is a better product than what you have?
Click to expand...

If all you are looking to find out is additional information, why not wait until after the track day that Mark B. is having? I wouldn't think that Comptech would of been willing to discuss specifics before their product was on the market. Now I am sure you can find out anything you want to know about the Comptech since they have about 300 in the field.

I think the Basch supercharger is going to be better than the Comptech in most ways, if I where making the decission now I would definately wait until Mark B. comes to market with his and then compare the two.

I believe you are making too direct a correlation between horsepower and fuel management. I am not an expert in this by any means but just because something is making more horsepower doesn't mean it requires more fuel. This has been proved by new more efficient engines that develop more power and improve fuel efficiency. If you improve the fuel air mixture you will develop more power without using any more fuel, the engine will just be more efficient. All of what you are saying about the pistons melting and such is from running in too lean a condition. I would certainly think that Mark B. is checking the EGT's to see how lean the car is running with the SC. I have know about Mark B. for quite a while now and I wouldn't be worried about anything he produces. He also isn't the type to let anything go out the door before it is ready, his butt would be on the line if his SC did cause NSX's to burn down.

If you are truly wanting more information to make a purchase then I would suggest waiting until the product is released and see if it passes your approval. The best way is to see how others that jump on the bandwagon immediately fare.
 
I would have to agree, my experience with Basch Acura has been top notch! Everything from the SC to the tranny has been done by Mark without a hitch. Not only is he one of the most knowledgeable NSX techs in the country his reputation and ethics are legendary.
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Maybe production problems? Who knows. Any way the purpose of my post was not to discredit or make anyone upset, I was to ask some simple question in hope of simple answers. Unfortunaty my original suspision that there is something to hide has come true.
Click to expand...

It's funny that in the very same paragraph that you state "the purpose of my post was not to discredit anyone" you attempt to discredit someone by saying "Maybe production problems? Who knows." and "Unfortunaty my original suspision that there is something to hide has come true."

Fortunately, the only one you've succeeded in discrediting is yourself.
 
I think the only thing we can say for sure is that Mark Basch has an absolutely FLAWLESS reputation, and has absolutely impeccable Character. I've only had a chance to deal with him long distance over the phone, but he has been nothing but helpful, straightforward, and honest.
I would NEVER question this man's ability to do something with an NSX. Most of all I trust in the fact that he would never release anything to the public that was not "safe".

Keep in mind, the BB SC is still in BETA testing.
 
4g62bt2c30a,

What you fail to realize is that before your statements can be taken seriously by anyone on this forum you need to earn a little respect prior to dishing out insults or making arbitrary accusations. I say this as a newbie myself. I have followed this forum for several months and asked questions or given input only when I felt I had something to offer (notice that my posting numbers are low because I have LISTENED more than I have SPOKEN). Anytime you join a new group you must become part of the crowd before they accept you. And without proof, your negative input will not be given any credit whatsoever.

Just a thought!
 
Hey Lud:

Why don't you impose a minimum literacy requirement for NSX Prime membership, which might include being able to correctly spell at least one word per sentence? Yes, tolerance is an important virtue, but what about the importance of maintaining the current credibility of NSX Prime when it comes to posts on supercharging!!!

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s
 
This kit is not a precedent for high output from a small displacement engine, rather, the net power output and power delivery is characteristic of the blower and design application of this kit. You will notice that the Comptech S2000 kit uses similar design methods, with similar net power output. As Mark Basch has stated, the kit is preproduction, and further details will follow.

Regards,
-- Chris

------------------
SoS_logo.gif

www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
www.NSXClassifieds.com - The internet's only exclusive NSX Classified site!

Edit: turned the heat down a notch

[This message has been edited by ScienceofSpeed (edited 07 November 2001).]
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
... Do you think Comptech would answer my questions? I bet you they would....
Click to expand...

Actually, no I don't. One of my primary complaints about Comptech is that they maintain an attitude of their "s**t don't stink" and all you need to know is that if it comes from them it's the best and worth whatever outrageous price they want to put on it. I have called on various occasions with what should be simple questions and couldn't get an answer. For example, what spring rates for a particular suspension kit, or the damping rates of their shocks. The profile of a camshaft, etc. Surely they have this information (if not, then why would I want to buy anything from them?)

Anyway, that's a bit off topic, but I'm sure we'll get better info from Mark in the near future.
 
I can try to help you, however, any questions on components of the kit that have not been finalized, I'm not going to be of much use.

Mark Basch does frequent these boards, and your questions would be best answered by him when he feels that he has solid answers for your questions...

-- Chris

------------------
SoS_logo.gif

www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
www.NSXClassifieds.com - The internet's only exclusive NSX Classified site!
 

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