Bill Harpe's Final Basch Bust Analysis. Advice Needed!

[bharpensx]

First of all, seriously, I would like to thank everyone :smile: that helped me with my original post in April or something through the last "Who do I contact?" Post a week or two ago.

I now have the final results of the compression/leak down test!! And I think it is good news!

For the uninitiated, I have a 92 NSX, Comptech 6 speed transmission and a Basch Bust Supercharger. I still have the original Split Second timing box on it and have received next to zero help on the situation from Basch, except him sending me another box (I guess, second gen box) that said "Call Mark before installing". No warnings about not installing it, no instructions on how to install it).. I later found out that without it you would blow your engine. The best support I have found for it is my local non NSX friends who have been willing to try to see which wire matches what. Maybe we are not a bunch of Supercharger mechanics but we are not willing to gamble as others may have been with an engine this expensive. I gave up on ever trying to contact Basch after he was made aware of the problem at NSXPO 2004 face to face and did not offer an answer, help or anything. Except making sure that any documentation I borrowed was returned immediately to him.

So, I had been previously informed (prior to the installation of the Supercharger) that you had better change the spark plugs first because you can't get to them after the SC install.

After multiple messages here on the board, I found that this was not the case, and so I got the results of a compression and leakdown test on the car today and here are the results. I'll try to put them in chart format if the forum allows.

Cylinder--Compression--Leakdown
1 ---175-------------14%
2 --175-------------12%
3 -- 175-------------14%
4 ---170---------------11%
5 --170---------------12%
6 - 180--------------12%


These measures are all within norms for the car if I understand it.

Therefore, I believe that I have a 92 NSX engine that Basch has not managed to blow up (yet).

I drive the car well under its limits and because of fear of Basch induced failure have for a couple years.

So now, assuming that the engine is okay, please comment on whether this is right or wrong..

I have two choices. Go to a different timing mechanism...apparently the second gen split second box is not so great either and maybe the (AEM?) would be a better choice? Or is it better to just get the Fu****ing Basch thing off the car and go back to original? What are the pros and cons of both that you can see?

I ask this question urgently as I need to decide what to do during or instead of NSXPO in Orlando this year.

Again, thanks to everyone.

Bill Harpe.

 

[B Feelgood]

Don't even think about it and get the AEM EMS.
It was a night/day difference with the AEM EMS vs Split Second Box on my BBSC NSX...

 

[zahntech]

First of all, the compression figures are a little low, 190 is what I like to see, however the #s you have show that the motor is still functional,...Next Question, do you want to run FI and if so, how much do you want it?...if you decided you wanted to keep it I would ask "how come Comptech can run a hot air supercharger at 6lbs with acceptable reliability?"..IMO the issue with the supercharger you have is not the supercharger you have, Its the tuning.

Tuning! Tuning! Tuning!..you have to figure out how you are going to deal with the timing issues and the fuel volume/pressure needed to run the motor safely.

There are many persons on this site that have smoked the go fast crack pipe and they should have many ideas about how to address your tuning issues.

I personally have only installed/tuned Comptech systems on NSXs.

But I'm sure there are piggybacks you can use to address the problems or the AEM will give you the tuning flexibility you need.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

I agree, if you decide to retain the BB FI, at the minimum go with an aftermarket management system and a good tuner, and ditch that split second box.

 

[ALIENT]

I have a BBSC with AEM.. conservatively tuned, runs great.

Blame the SSBB v1. for your troubles..

 

[Elite]

Your best option for tuning is the AEM. It's the most expensive, but its the safest. Assuming you have access to a recommended AEM tuner.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

I personally have only installed/tuned Comptech systems on NSXs.

Installed? OK Tuned? Not much tuning on the standard CTSC is there?

Tuning! Tuning! Tuning!..you have to figure out how you are going to deal with the timing issues and the fuel volume/pressure needed to run the motor safely.

Tuning is the most important component in all FI. Boost is boost regardless of what name is on the SC.

Armando

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Your best option for tuning is the AEM. It's the most expensive, but its the safest. Assuming you have access to a recommended AEM tuner.

There are many setups that are more expensive than the AEM, there are not to many that are cheaper.


Armando

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Cylinder--Compression--Leakdown
1 ---175-------------14%
2 --175-------------12%
3 -- 175-------------14%
4 ---170---------------11%
5 --170---------------12%
6 - 180--------------12%




Again, thanks to everyone.

Bill Harpe.

You motor is a bit on the low side,but then again its a 14 year old car. I had my BBSC also on a 92 for about 35,000 miles on stock internals with the AEM . Concentrate on getting the tuning right and you will be very happy with the results.

Armando

 

[clarknm]

The good news is you can get the AEM for MUCH less than 95+ owners.

 

[titaniumdave]

Your best option for tuning is the AEM. It's the most expensive, but its the safest. Assuming you have access to a recommended AEM tuner.

AEM is the LEAST expensive stand alone I know of for a complete ECU. Check out Motec if you want to talk Most expensive...

I agree with everyone, low compression numbers, but it is 14 YO. Go AEM, I love mine!

 

[zahntech]

Installed? OK Tuned? Not much tuning on the standard CTSC is there?

Not much, you can adjust fuel pressure on the Comptech fuel pressure regulator if needed.

Tuning is the most important component in all FI. Boost is boost regardless of what name is on the SC.

Armando

Yeah that's pretty much what I said.

 

[02#154]

I agree 100% with all three of MiamieNeSeX's earlier posts on this thread. I've used SS products on other cars with very good success but that was on cars where I knew the ECU's very well. From feedback on Prime, it appears that the SS products don't work too well on these cars, at least not easily and dependably.

If I were in your position, I'd find an AEM ECU and a qualified tuner.

J

 

[Sig]

Tuning is the most important component in all FI. Boost is boost regardless of what name is on the SC.

Armando

At the end of the day, the statement above is the most relevant statement for anyone going down the FI path.

 

[Elite]

There are many setups that are more expensive than the AEM, there are not to many that are cheaper.


Armando

In reply to this^, and titaniumdaves comment. Yes I am quite aware there are other standalone systems that are more $. But none of them are plug and play, and in this situation, I think that is what is called for.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Your best option for tuning is the AEM. .

That statement would only be true if there is an AEM competent tuner near enough to the location of the car.

It's the most expensive, but its the safest. .

No it isn't on both counts. It's only as safe as the tuner is good.


Armando

 

[ALIENT]

I've used SS products on other cars with very good success but that was on cars where I knew the ECU's very well. From feedback on Prime, it appears that the SS products don't work too well on these cars, at least not easily and dependably.

If I were in your position, I'd find an AEM ECU and a qualified tuner.

J

Not knocking SS as a bad product, but apparently the first round of SSBBs with the Basch had faulty firmware/hardware that didn't do what it was supposed to. I still don't know if this is what really happened, but that's what Basch told me and it's good enough for me.

When I got my engine rebuilt, I decided that I'd go with AEM instead of giving the SSBB v2 a chance.

 

[Elite]

That statement would only be true if there is an AEM competent tuner near enough to the location of the car.





No it isn't on both counts. It's only as safe as the tuner is good.


Armando

HMM, wow, I guess I didn't make myself clear in my first post in this thread about using an AEM recommended tuner. And maybe it didn't come accross in my responce to Bills' other thread regarding the same topic either.

But it's great that you can say the same thing over and over, while others have said the same, only in different terms. Maybe I should just lay off the suggestions, and let you do it. It's nice to get picked apart when you have good intentions for someone who is asking a question.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

HMM, wow, I guess I didn't make myself clear in my first post in this thread about using an AEM recommended tuner. And maybe it didn't come accross in my responce to Bills' other thread regarding the same topic either.

But it's great that you can say the same thing over and over, while others have said the same, only in different terms. Maybe I should just lay off the suggestions, and let you do it. It's nice to get picked apart when you have good intentions for someone who is asking a question.

Why so sensitive. You wrote

Originally Posted by Elite
It's the most expensive, but its the safest. .

Which is incorrect.



Again if you live in BFE and have to fly in an AEM tuner it would make the AEM system less attractive.


Armando

 

[coldhammer]

Ill throw in my two cents.

First I feel your pain about MB. Totally useless and screwed me out of thousands of dollars of parts and money. Thats all ill say about that.

I have bbsc as well runing 9#. Dump the SS go with the aem. Staying with the SS is both problematic in getting it to work correctly as well as not entirely safe. While there are a few here that have not had issues with it most have found out the hard way that they should have gotten rid of it.

The basch kit is failry reliable if you take the time to install it correctly and use a quality engine management. A couple suggestions if you havent done it already is to ditch the crappy aluminum elbow that comes with the kit and have someone make you a new pipe. That will stop a lot of boost leaks. Also replacing the plastic bosch bypass valve, which will work well when its new over time will wear out and create more boost issues. You can replace it with a racing bypass valve such as the hks one or something similar.

My only real complaint about it is the amount of heat it generates as well as the constant need to retighten the belt due to slipping.

As far as leak down numbers go my numbers were in the 190ish range on all except one cylinder which was 187. My car is a 91. But then I havea rebuilt low comp engine.

So far I have 20k miles on mine and I run it pretty hard. No problems yet. Knock on wood.

 

[bharpensx]

OK, thanks for the info to this point guys. I would like to know how to get in touch with the guy from AEM with the NSX to see what the story is on installers and tuners in my area, or elsewhere on the east coast. Time is of the essence.

Thanks again,

Bill Harpe.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/member.php?u=12205