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Bumper paint matching

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so I'm finally due to get my NSX back from the body shop tomorrow after 9 weeks. I went in to take a look today because they had finished painting it.

I noticed that the plastic parts of the car (e.g. front bumper), was a subtley darker shade of red than the metal body panels (my car is formula red). The shop had to replace and paint both types of panels. The replaced metal panels matched fine with the rest of the car, but the plastic bits are slightly off.

They claim that the plastic takes the paint differently than the metal, accounting for the difference.

My questions:

1)Has anyone else experienced this with repainted bumpers?

2)Will the color lighten with age?

3)Even if the plastic takes the paint differently, how did the original color match?
 
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They are correct that the plastic does take the paint differently from the metal. In fact, the factory paint used on the plastic panels is different; it contains plasticizers that allow the paint to flex along with the softer plastic panels. It is not uncommon even for the original factory paint to not match precisely between the plastic panels and the metal panels, but the difference should be only slight and not easily noticeable.

That being said...

1)Has anyone else experienced this with repainted bumpers?

Yes. My hood and one headlight cover were replaced, and they blended the finish with the front nose piece. There is a slight mismatch in color that you can see if you look closely.

2)Will the color lighten with age?

You should assume that the colors change at the same rate with age. IOW, that the bumper and the hood (for example) will lighten at the same rate. They should be trying to achieve a match at the time that they paint, not at some point in the future.

3)Even if the plastic takes the paint differently, how did the original color match?

Very closely.

My advice is this - if you have to look very hard to see if there is a mismatch, then don't worry about it. If the mismatch is easily noticeable, then ask them if it will be better if they redo it, and see what they say. Don't feel like you have to live with a repair that you're not happy with.

Just my dos centavos.

(BTW, this is one of those questions that I wish I did not have the personal experience on which to base a response. But stuff happens, and it doesn't decrease my enjoyment of the car.)

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 07 February 2002).]
 

LJSB

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1) Yes.
2) No. It will not lighten and match the adjacent panels at a later time.
3) It can be done, that is, matched correctly.
How depends on the brand of paint/sealer,and method of application and experience/awareness of the tech. I have a formula red car and have painted different parts of the car, at different times, including the fascias and they all match. If they are being painted at the same time there should be no reason, in my opinion, for them not to match perfectly. I find three stage paint easier to match than 2 stage paint. Either the painter knows how and wants to or, doesn't. When you see fascias of a different color it is because they were not painted under the same conditions.
Honda/Acura did it at the factory and so can we in the field.

[This message has been edited by pbassjo (edited 07 February 2002).]
 
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P.S. Lighting conditions can have a major impact on perceptions of color. When my car is in sunlight, it is almost impossible to see the color difference. Under flourescent lighting, it is much more noticeable.
 
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Originally posted by byang:
so I'm finally due to get my NSX back from the body shop tomorrow after 9 weeks. I went in to take a look today because they had finished painting it.

I noticed that the plastic parts of the car (e.g. front bumper), was a subtley darker shade of red than the metal body panels (my car is formula red). The shop had to replace and paint both types of panels. The replaced metal panels matched fine with the rest of the car, but the plastic bits are slightly off.

They claim that the plastic takes the paint differently than the metal, accounting for the difference.

My questions:

1)Has anyone else experienced this with repainted bumpers?

2)Will the color lighten with age?

3)Even if the plastic takes the paint differently, how did the original color match?

In regards to your questions:

1 - Yes, I am experiencing the same problems as you, the previous owner of my car had the front end repainted, it looks substantially darker than the hood or fenders
frown.gif
.

2 - Nope, no discernible differences from what I can tell, it's been almost 2 years since I purchased the car.

3 - I've asked the same question to various body shops, it looks like they have a different painting process.. If you look carefully at your mirrors you might notice a slight difference as well. As other people
have noted, even the factory colors won't
look right under fluorescent lighthing..

------------------------------------------
This might be a bit out of topic, but I am interested in finding out which body shop you used here in the Bay Area.

I am considering doing the 02 rear end conversion and would like to have a range of various bodyshops.

2slow2speed
 
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Originally posted by 2slow2speed:
In regards to your questions:

[snip]
If you look carefully at your mirrors you might notice a slight difference as well. As other people
have noted, even the factory colors won't
look right under fluorescent lighthing..


I think you're absolutely right here. I saw my car indoors at the body shop's facilities. Now that I think about it, the guy actually mentioned to me that the original side view mirror (which wasn't touched) was a different color than the body. It may have just been a trick of the lights. I'll reserve judgement until I see it in sunlight.

I used Matthew's Carlsen in palo alto to do my car. Since they do porsches and audi's, I figure they do good paint work, and they do A8's so they have in-house aluminum welding facilities.

I've had several requests to see their handiwork, so most likely, I'll show up at the next NSXCA lunch to show it off.

PS- Thanks to everyone for the informative answers


[This message has been edited by byang (edited 07 February 2002).]
 
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byang,
I am considering using Carlsen's for a repaint of the nose of my NSX. I am curious as to how you would rate your experience with them. I understand you chose them for body and paint capabilities. Would you chose them again if you just had to have the same paint work done? My experience with body shops is that they are very friendly to get the job, but when it comes to delivering a finished product with quality, they turn nasty. What are your opinions of the quality of the work and the level of satisfaction that you received?
Thanks.
 
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So I got my car back, and can I just tell you how happy I am with driving it again. The guys at Carlsen are nice to deal with and the body work was top notch, but there were several issues with the work that they did aside from the bumper matching:

1) They broke the radio. The unit turns on, CD player is playing through tracks, the antena goes up. No sound at ALL from speakers

2) There were LOTS of dirt flecks embedded in the paint.

3) There were areas where the paint was uneven in thickness, resulting in divots.

4) The areas around the keyholes were really messed up with dents and divots in the paint

5) In one spot the paint has already cracked and has a star pattern

6) there are a couple of scratchs and places where the paint has clouded

I'm going back on Thursday and seeing how they resolve it. I"m a little disappointed, but I'll give them the chance to make it right (I have no reason to believe they wont). I'll report back...
 
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Personally, I get very offended when a body shop tells me that plastic takes paint differently than metal. Paint is paint and the prep for each surface is the same. Same sanding, same priming. I know that there are flexing agents added to paint, but they do not affect the color of the paint. Is your gas cover a different color than your fender? One is plastic, the other is aluminum. Is your mirror a different color as well?
And as for the colors fading or changing with age, yes they will change. All at the same rate. Make sure that the colors match when you pick it up. When the new panels fade or darken, or whatever they tell you they do, it will all happen at the same rate and it will match years from now.
It's your money and your car. Demand perfection.
 
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I give you credit for being even tempered. It sounds like they did a pretty bad job with the car. I'd be going nuts.

I hope the sort it out properly for you. It sounds to me like they need to do a strip and repaint on most of what they had done...
 

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1) CD: Don't know.
2)Most likely in the clear coat and could be sanded out if not for #4 and #5.
3) Same as above. Without seeing it I can't be sure but it sound like a condition known as "fish eye". Comes from silicone/petroleum based material (wax,grease etc.) in the paint environment. Could possibly be solved again with sanding and buffing if not for #4 & #5.
4) Interior trim panel of door should have been removed to remove lock cylinder/bezel as well as the belt moulding for the paint process. Common goof by painters/prep persons who are either lazy or pressured to "make (save) time". This is one of those operations that the shop should charge for and should be done. Insurance companies will pay for this.
5)???? Sounds like overlooked damage?
6) Most likey wher the surface was wet sanded/buffed and needs additional buffing with a foam pad and hand glazed.

These issues should be resolved by the shop. Talk to the manager/owner and show him the car on a clear day (not raining). I bet he'll see it your way.
 
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Well, I guess I sound even tempered because overall, I'm quite happy. the paint on the new body panels match VERY well with the rest of the car. The issues are mostly in the clearcoat.

I brought the car back in on Thursday and they saw everything I pointed out and are willing to take care of it. They were quite agreeable to fixing everything so I'm not really worried. I dont have a problem with a few flaws as long as they are willing to fix it. Also, I recognize that I have Anal Owner Syndrome as I literally spent an hour goig over my car after getting it back.

Given all that, I'll save final assessment until everything is done.
 
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Bringing the car back and pointing out the flaws was exactly the right avenue to pursue. I'm glad the shop is going to make it right for you.
Best of luck!
 
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You definitely do NOT have anal owner syndrome!!! If you say that you are even a little pleased with that job, you are not anal. Orange peel, sinks, fish eyes, dirt spider cracks, runs.........YIKES!!!!!!!!!! Any one in any one tiny spot would infuriate me. You have all of the above!
biggrin.gif
Yikes! Get them to completely strip all the painted panels and repaint them off the car, wet sanding and buffing between coats. Thin even coats!! Good luck.
 
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