BUZZ Sub Box

[Ojas]

"How ironic it is that your business..."

Link to all the great e-mails!

Absolutely a great series of emails! Thanks for posting.

I have seen the pictures of the box in your gallery, read the details about it in your past posts, and now in the exchange of emails. It’s too bad you ended up with such a substandard product and even worse that the seller is too much of a coward to step-up and accept the blame that is unquestionably his.

 

[Andy Buzz]

Just got back in town and have a busy schedule. With over 50,ooo satisfied customers and twenty two years in business, I am not sure what I have to prove but I will reply either late tonight or tomorrow.

I am a professional businessman but must prioritize my NSX hobby with my statewide home theater installations and car audio business.

Andy Buzz

 

[Andy Buzz]

The purpose of this response is for clarification purposes only. I am not attempting to fuel a pissing contest nor seeking any response or comments. It is unlikely that the dust stirred up by Mr Rapper will ever settle. Having responded to 17 lengthly emails and offering gratis shipping damage repair was not sufficient. I sleep very well at night knowing that I run an honest business and have over 50,000 satisfied customers. Additionally, I know for a fact that I have over 75 NSX custom sound systems installations under my belt and have not had complaints.

My subwoofer enclosure is designed to not restrict the legroom. With that space limitation we suggest in our experience the Image Dynamics 8 inch subwoofer. I dont suggest a ten unless your passengers are midgets as this will require a substantially larger enclosure. The eight plays low frequecies well and produces fantastic sound quality. It also crosses over well with Diamond or MBQuart speakers.

My goal is to produce sound quality vehicles and not ghetto style sloppy bass. There is no purpose to a huge subwoofer in a small cabin. The purpose of a sub is to complement the mids and highs not to overpower any frequencies. My enclosure maintains stock apperance and legroom. It sounds great and looks great.

There are reasons why we do everything that we do. Those that think they know everything may really not know enough to cast a judgement. I will answer breifly that we carpet our speaker grill to stop the slapping sound of the floor mat being sucked back against the subwoofer grill. The carpet does not affect the frequency of bass. We run out both sets of speaker wires to allow the installer the ultimate flexibility to impedence match amp. We wipe seams with silicone for precautioary purposes.

Heres the bottom line. I dont need any unreasonable customers. Life is way too short. If you own an NSX and want a great subwoofer solution contact me. I also sell great amplifiers, head units, radar detectors and speakers. My company provides great service and support. Contact me at 813-882-8477 if I can help.

Yours truly,
Andy Buzz

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I've been waiting for your response.

You fail to address several burning questions. I couldn't give a rat's ass about how you picked up 2500 more satisfied customers over the last year or how many you claim to have.

The fact is, your box is NOT .7, .6, or even .5 cubic feet. Yes, I measured it and did it twice with water. My EXTENDED box measures in at .4 cubic feet. You told me yourself that it was .6 cubic feet, then you changed it to .5 cubic feet with polyfill correction. That is what really sold me is the fact that you can build a box that takes up no additional legspace, offers nearly .7 cubic feet and keeps the car looking stock. You never bothered to correct your posts or change your stance on the volume of the box even though it's obvious you never measured it. Even in your very last message to me, you insisted it was .6 cubic feet uncorrected even! Box volume is not a guessing game and it is not something to take lightly. My frequency response completely depends on it and there is very little margin for error. What really irks me is that you were informed that your box does not have the volume that you claim. Yet you still have the nerve push the sale on me by lying about the box volume.

When I first received the box, I was impressed at how nice it looked externally. The carpet job is truly expertise and the greatest expertise was hiding the shoddy construction. BTW, I can easily hear the difference when the carpeted speaker grill was on and when it was off. But I'm glad it broke because I would not have had the opportunity to take it apart and see all the problems. Those problems are well documented in my e-mails to you and you can deny them all you want. I know what I saw in my hands when I saw it and I do not make up these stories. The problems I had with my box are not unique to my situation which you blame completely on UPS. The face separation has happened to others, do you deny that? The sub falling into the box breaking the trim ring has happened to others, do you deny that? The screws being stripped on the trim ring has happened to others, do you deny that, too?

The box does not slap carpet now with the carpet off. Wiping silicone to seal leaks, you couldn't even seal all the leaks up and you didn't just wipe the silicone, that box was given a facial. Your comment about the 2 wires being run out of the box to give the installer flexibility is just ridiculous and a poor excuse for not listening to your customers. 8" subs crossing over well with components. HAH! Maybe it's just that your box doesn't handle 10s that you say this. Because your box cannot properly fill in the footwell and use the space up well enough to create the volume necessary.

As your customer, you gave me the run around on the completion date. You snapped back at me when I displayed frustration. You did not offer to fix it until several e-mails later. You live in complete denial.

Furthermore the conclusion of your post just goes to validate what I've been saying all along and that is that you are a sleezy salesperson. All you can do is recite the 50,000 satisfied customers you supposedly have and stick in sales pitches whenever you post. I can't believe you had the nerve to do it again! The only thing you contribute to this forum is SPAM.

You lied to me to sell your box and I hope I've exposed the box for what it is and you for who you are. When a business fails to deliver and lies about a product, you should be offered a refund. Don't take this as me asking for a refund because I don't even want one. You offered in one of your last e-mails to fix it less shipping charges. You didn't even offer to pay shipping charges on a 5 pound package, that's a real insult.

Thank you for your time!

 

[Ojas]

Weak

I am not attempting to fuel a pissing contest nor seeking any response or comments.

It’s no surprise. You lied about your product and have been nothing but a complete wuss - repeatedly unable to answer the most basic of your customer’s concerns.

Listen, it’s really simple: For the time being, forget UPS, the MDF, the type of driver, how much work was involved in customizing the box, etc. Just explain how something ends up being 1/3 smaller than your normal size when the customer paid you to have it enlarged.

Admit it: You lied to customer and the customer caught the lie, perhaps for the first time. Malibu’s email on 5/20/2004 could not have been more diplomatic, yet your reactionary response appeared as if it had been writen by a spoiled child.

By the way: No one gives damn how many customers you’ve had or how long you’ve been in business or how well you sleep on the ego you have so overly-inflated with these irrelevant figures that you keep barking.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Well, that's what's nice about the new system that will be coming out. It will be from a reputable vendor that has a history of providing good customer service. The quality will be much better and most importantly, there won't be any lies. We're all just waiting for the announcement to come out...

There are a lot of people that can make a box. How they do it and how they treat you should not be overlooked.

 

[D'Ecosse]

Some relevant info from previous posts: I shouldn't really touch this but there are a lot of published facts here that show inaccuracies.

...My subwoofer enclosure is designed to not restrict the legroom. With that space limitation we suggest in our experience the Image Dynamics 8 inch subwoofer. I dont suggest a ten unless your passengers are midgets as this will require a substantially larger enclosure .....

01-04-2003

I have made numerous subwoofer boxes for NSX's. What works the best out of over a dozen woofers tested is a Nakamichi ten inch in the footwell....

... Anyway, I have tried em all. The IDQ10 is what we have used in many NSX's. Our box volume is bigger than .5 as we form the fiberglass enclosure high and wide to the shape of the car floor not the old box. ..

10-02-2003

The internal air volume is just under .7 cu/ft. It will work well with a Diamond 10, JL Audio 10, Eclipse 8, Rockford Fosgate 8. I offer many different subs and can recommend based on music taste and amplifier power.

Ummmm ..... Isn't your sub a JL Audio 10 Malibu????

12-09-2003

... We now can provide you with a xubwoofer box to fit any NSX. The box is made from 1708 weave glass for the lightest and strongest enclosure. This allows us the most internal volume to maximize the performance in the least space possible.....

We recommend the Diamond Audio 10 inch sub for $129.99
...

12-10-2003

The fitment of our enclsure take up all the available room and matches the acoustic needs of the Diamond sub....

(Remember - the "recommended" Diamond is a 10")

05-27-2004

Just got a look at it today. It was damaged in shipment and I decided to fix it myself. The mounting ring made of MDF that attaches the sub to the box at the front/top made a clean break all around. It did not separate from the fiberglass, the MDF separated from itself. Must of been quite a box drop at UPS. The shipping box itself did not look damaged. I reglued and through bolted with a re-enforcing ring.

06-30-2004

I would tend to agree with what is being said in this post.
Attached is a pic of my Buzz sub with a 10" as recommended by Andy.
I bought the first one "custom fitted to the larger, earlier cars".
I checked the recommended volume on the 10" sub after I rcvd it and of course it was larger than the true volume of the box.
I called Andy and asked what it would take to retro fit for an ED 8" sub that was more suited for the box. He said he would do it for $200. Hmmmm
Andy actually said I would be better off selling it and buying another unit from him. I was wanting this for no charge as the volume was WAY over-stated.
And when I rcvd the sub unit last winter, half of the screws had pulled out from the weight of the sub. Sounds like a pattern here.For the price of this box, I expected much more.
I admit I know more know than I did last year, but I thought he was the expert and followed his advice. That will teach me.

Note: this was the Buzz "recommended" Diamond Audio sub that was found to be not matching the box specs. I personally feel bad here - I actually recommended this looked like a good option to pt91 before I actually received mine.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(From me to Andy Buzz on receipt of my sub box Jan 2004)

Please note the date this was sent - Malibu Rapper was sold his box after he was notified of the facts below.

----- Original Message -----
From: decosse'at'xxx.com
To: abuzz'at'xxxx.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: NSX Sub Box


Hi Andy

Got the sub-box today (Monday) but have to say I'm really disappointed.

Yes, the workmanship is beautiful & I can't fault that at all.

The biggest & most critical concern for me is that the box volume is only 9.0 liters (exactly)which is less than 0.32 cu ft - less than half your claimed 0.7 cu ft!!! As soon as I saw it, I knew it wasn't anywhere close to the stated size so measured it. After removing the fill, I filled it all the way to half the thickness of the mounting flange & measured precisely with a measuring jug.

To be honest I was skeptical of the 0.7 cubes you mention in your Prime thread & you agreed when we talked you thought that number was "rich" but still said it would be 0.5 cu ft. Now, I need at least 13.2 liters or 0.467 cu ft which is almost 50% more than the 0.32 cubes that it currently is. We did discuss the volume I needed & you even acknowledged/ recommended that an 8" sub is more applicable for your box (which is certainly true) but my sub's design requires as little or even less than many 8" units and you acknowledged I would certainly have the specific volume I needed. Even the 10" Diamond Audio you recommended in the thread would not work ideally with this box - that sub also needs even more volume than mine, 0.5-1.0 cubes per design spec. (I'm sure your recommendation however was based on your perception the box was bigger than it actually is)

.......

Soooo ..... I'd like to ask you to consider a return on this unit - if you can make me another that meets my requirements i.e. 13.2 liters or 0.467 cu ft, I'd be happy to have you do that - if you can't I'd like to return this one for refund.

I'd like to assure you I have no reason to broadcast the fact (on Prime or wherever) that it doesn't fit as advertised or any other complaints, so you have no worries there. However, I do think you should verify the volume for yourself though (if you have any doubts) & correct your ad - I'm 100% confident that you didn't deliberately mislead anyone but it is unfortunate if someone (like me) expects a given volume & it is woefully short.

Hopefully we can work something out - I'd like to see you succeed with this product, the NSX market needs it. Your alternative would be to keep it as-is & offer as an 8" only product (which unfortunately doesn't help me)
.....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I did receive a reply from Andy offering to re-build to my suggestions but I declined at this point)

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Boy that gets me... I was deliberately mislead and lied to. Well, at least the cat's clearly out of the bag now. The quotes of the day are below.

I sleep very well at night knowing that I run an honest business and have over 50,000 satisfied customers

I have something else you might really like in stock. They are aluminum pedals that are specially made for the nsx.

Did I ever tell you about the custom NSX pedals that we sell. They are aluminum and are specific fit for the NSX.

Regarding the pedals that I offered you, this was simply a gesture of kindness to suggest a pedal set that I so enjoy on my NSX. For years, I have owned NSXs with torn rubber pedals.

For years I have driven my NSX on short roads with terrible views. I've got this 7 mile long bridge close to here in an area we call the Keys. All 50,000 of my customers drive across it and it was created by my master craftsmen. I got a special deal on it a few years ago and can offer it to you at my cost, shipping will be extra

Ok, that last quote I made up...

 

[D'Ecosse]

Ok, that last quote I made up...

Now that was classic ........... the acronym ROFLMAO was literally in play at that one!

 

[mackash]

WOW! .......... Who is the maker/vender of this new box you guys keep talking about?

 

[Andy Buzz]

As in any good business, products are constantly undergoing improvements in design. With that being said, I have always been open to different suggestions and/or opinions and am constantly trying to improve products and/or services.

In my attempt to try to being open-minded - - by altering what I have tried and tested as my recommendation to meet the criteria of others...it has come back to bite me and has blown up into a 1 1/2 year barage of feeling disappointment in that "some" feel it necessary to personally and professionally attack my products, my company and myself. And, for the record, I do have many satisfied customers - - some of whom reside on NSXPrime.

What is more disappointing is that a "FORUM" is supposed to foster friendly exchange of information and allow for differences in opinion. A "FORUM" is not supposed to be an "I'm Right" and "You're Wrong".

In the past, our company has tried numerous different brands of subwoofers. Initially, I used the Nakamichi 10" - sounded fantastic and fit the airspace requirement, the motor structure of the woofer's tapered magnet allowed the sub to sit angled & therefore, the floor maintained the appropriate angle for passenger comfort. Regretably,Nakamichi is no longer making subwoofers. So, we had to find another...

We tried numerous subs looking for the best low q subwoofer that made accurate bass in low volume enclosures. Bear in mind... My goal is a subwoofer box that fits the NSX with little to no loss of legroom.

Please see the specs for the Image Dynamics 8" subwoofer linked below: (This subwoofer performs very well in my enclosure - - Please note the recommended airspace for this box is .35!) :smile:
Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v3

Also, we have also made changes to the trim ring to withstand greater impact and resist stripped screws by using higher density MDF and added additional glass to join the ring to box.

I hope that you can respect that I do not claim to know it ALL...and am constantly tweaking products to make them as correct as possible -- I have always strived to have happy customers, have always offered to make any corrections to issues, if needed, and always try my best. I have "learned a lesson" and will never deviate from my beliefs and re-design in order to substitue a customer's sub over my recommendation.

I stand by my products and services and value my company's reputation. I have a great built box - - subscibing to what I think works well, I will now only offer the box with an ID8.

These boxes are currently available, ready to ship and have proven well for customers who were looking for no compromise in leg room while obtaining sound quality.

Andy Buzz

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I see you cannot stand to answer the burning questions. I as a very honest and trusting customer clearly asked you for the volume of the box. You were back and forth on the volume and exaggerated the volume by about 100%. You did not measure the box and even insisted that the box was .6 cubic feet. When in truth the box measures at .4 cubic feet with my extension modifications (people bear in mind that my box is much larger than the typical box you would buy from him). You refuse to take me up on my $20,000 challenge. Don't you know you could make me look like a complete idiot if you would only take me up on my challenge and also take $20k out of my bank account? Heck, I would give you 20k if my box was only .5 cubic feet.

Andy, I hate to say it but you are a coward and a liar. Here it is, an opportunity for you to prove me wrong and ensure that you make quality products. I am telling you that your box is .3 cubic feet (mine is .4 cuz it's extended)while you tell me it is .6 cubic feet. I gave you honest feedback and it's been a year now since I bought your box. You have demonstrated no regard for your dishonesty and no remorse. Up until the very last minute till everything that you had to say got shot down you denied any responsibility for the fact that you flat out lied to everyone here on NSXprime. Now after all the excuses, all you have to offer is perhaps a stricter guideline on what you are selling.

I laid out the facts, plain and clear. You failed to defend yourself in a intelligent manner. I guess I can say, I REST MY CASE. You ARE a liar. You take no responsibility for your dishonesty. Your product is mediocre at best. Where are all your satisfied customers to defend you now? I've dissected the Buzz box and I can give you a true installer's point of view. I have the pictures, the measurements, the mistakes, the e-mails...

The search feature is something we should always use. Unfortunately, I didn't use it well enough to discover the truth behind the Buzz box. I don't think I would have discovered the truth behind Buzz Off with as many queries as I could have tried. Hopefully now with this thread it clears the air. I will Google-ize the e-mails and make readily available for the next poor soul who might make the same mistakes as I did.

I spent over $600 in build costs and shipping. Plus several hours repairing and also some extra $$$ in buying new sub to work in the box. In the end, I ended up with a subwoofer I never anticipated using and a leaky rag-tag box. All told, this is a very expensive subwoofer box with very little true value. To say I got ripped off would be an understatement. The biggest disappointment is the lack of support and responsibility from the vendor. Even to this minute he fails to admit his many shortcomings and will make every excuse possible to take your money. This is exactly the type of vendor you want to avoid. He keeps true to being a bad used car salesman to the very last minute trying to SPAM you even when he's defending himself. If you do business with him, you are making a mistake. I got a lot more dirt on him that I can open up on with if he would have the nerve to bite back at me. I'm not the only one that got ripped of, right Andy? Don't even tempt me...

I like to think my rep on prime is good. I help out fellow members in an altruistic fashion. How is it that a person with a business with 50,000 satisified customers, many of whom are here on this board, not even match up to my mediocre trader rating? Next time you post on this thread, read the posts over again and be more prepared to defend yourself. You're in a triangle choke right now and it's time to TAP OUT.

 

[blackcat]

Go get him Malibu Rapper I think he is ready to tap out!!!!!!

Buzz and Dali (MJ) should conspire to join forces

 

[Inexcess]

A response from one of the "50,000".

Alright I'll admit that I'm a not so proud owner of a Buzz box. I bought mine right about when Malibu was having his "issues" and D'Ecosse was warning everyone about what the box was really like. Being an idiot I ordered one anyway but specified an 8" sub. I really didn't think a 10 would ever work.

When it arrived it was like Malibu said, the whole ring holding the sub to the box was broken away. I decided since I was fool enough to buy it I should take my lumps and just fix it myself (a backup metal ring and through bolts).

When I tried to install it I found out how badly it fit. I don't know what car they used to make the mold but it was not an NSX!. I lost about 1" of passenger foot room because the right hand side of the box did not have sufficient cut away's to fit properly.

All in all it works to my pitiful satisfaction, my repair work seems to have survived for about a year. My rating? It's a $650 POS.

Live and learn :frown:

 

[robr]

andy, you might as well toss those boxes, i doubt youll ever sell one again via nsx prime. i was interested when you first started offering them, im so glad i didn't go that route.

i'm yet another former IASCA competitor who pays very close attention to details such as oh... i dunno, accurate box volume. when you're building a sub setup and referring to thiele/small parameters, box volume is just a little important (not to mention an airtight box if you're selecting a sub for a sealed enclosure). perhaps you didn't expect audiophiles to buy your box and were hoping we'd all be happy with a walmart system? come on, people who own an nsx tend to be very detail oriented and enjoy the finer things in life, that includes audio for many of us.

cheers, rob

 

[Andy Buzz]

My company employees many IASCA certified, MECP certified and Top Gun Certified installers. I personally have current certifications myself even though I am no longer an installer. I was simply responding for the purposes of clarification and am not here to defend myself from people that think they know it all that just want to throw rocks at me. Mr Rapper, I am not interested in your $20,000 offer and dont need your money. For those of you that have condemned my business based on someones poor opinion is shortsighted.

Honestly, I could care less to sell another box on prime if this barrage is what I have to deal with. My local NSX customers have been pleased with my companies work since NSXs first came out. Having owned three NSX since 1992, I pride myself on knowing the NSX well and have numerous customers that would attest to that if they didnt have better things to do than chat all day on an internet forum. I have many audiophile customers that drive NSXs and many with finer automobiles that have an even higher standard of excellence.

So we had two or three enclosures that failed due to trim rings that delaminated upon impact. The common thread is that all three boxes were made using the exact same ring material that delaminated from itself. That is not what we had used in the past nor what we use going forward. That does not make me a bad seller especially since we offered to repair at no charge. Our latest version enclosures achieve exactly what I have aimed for. We maintain legroom, sound quality and with the use of higher density MDF trim rings I doubt that even if mishandled in shipping would our ring split.

 

[robr]

and one again he dances around the issue of claimed box volume........

 

[Malibu Rapper]

My posts have probably been too long. Here, let me ask very simply one question on just one of the issues I've raised.

Why did you lie to me about the box volume?

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I know this is beating a dead horse but I found out something last night.
I have had issues with my audio system for many months now and was determined to fix it this time....if I could.
I turned radio on and it sounded alright at best. I reached over and felt the sub and it wasn't moving.
I pulled the box completely out and looked at it. All appeared OK on the outside. I unscrewed the sub but wasn't able to pull it out because it is exposed in.
After tinkering with the amp, I found out that Xtant had put one of the jumpers in the wrong location and that is why it wasn't playing right. Once I moved the jumper BAM !!! the bass started playing.
I was so happy. I grabbed the box by the side and felt the air pounding out of it....that's right. Out of the SIDE of the box. I haven't taken this thing out since I had it installed by Buzz Off. I have a huge hole in the side of it that I will now have to repair to get all of the bass I should've had from the beginning. Needless to say, I am now disappointed in that product. :frown:

 

[Andy Buzz]

You did not mention why the jumper was in the wrong position. For clarification, 92NSX had trunk water leak if I remember correctly. Amp got wet and was sent to manufacurer for service by customer. The amp was not removed and reinstalled by authorized dealer therefore the jumpers and settings were all set to factory default. That is not my fault.

Our earlier generation enclosures had a wood front face while our enclosures that we have made in the past two years are entirely of fiberglass except for the trim ring. While we strive for constant improvement, we now believe we have perfected the Buzz sub box in terms of sound quality and strength.

I personally quality controlled your vehicle while in my care and found that our workmanship and sound quality performance levels were well within our high standards and recall that we exceeded your expectations. It has been many years since we performed your installation but if your enclosure needs repair, simply contact me for assistance.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

You did not mention why the jumper was in the wrong position. For clarification, 92NSX had trunk water leak if I remember correctly. Amp got wet and was sent to manufacurer for service by customer. The amp was not removed and reinstalled by authorized dealer therefore the jumpers and settings were all set to factory default. That is not my fault.

Andy,
If you would kindly read my post again you will see that I didn't put the fault of the amplifier not working correctly on you. I NEVER said it was your fault and honestly don't appreciate you isinuating that I did.
I have already started a thread about the issues that I had with my amp and I was totally upfront with everyone and Xtant about everything. However like I just stated, when I got the amp back from them, and NOT you, the jumpers were wrong. How do you get that I blamed you for that?
Having said that. I do find it to be your fault that my box has a gaping hole in it that your company built. I plan on fixing it myself(or a 'boat guy') or buying another from a different business though.
Best of luck to you and your business but please read posts (at least mine) a little more clearly before you make accusations that can be substaniated.