Car died and will not start. Ideas?

[usafdarkhorse]

Today I was driving home and got to the entrance of the neighborhood when a guy at a lube shop waved at me to come over.

Since I'm happy to show anyone the car, I obliged and pulled around and went in. After walking around the car for about 10 minutes, I go to leave.

I sit down, turn the key and... click click click click..nothing. All of my lights come on just fine, but no crank.

I pull the rear cover off behind the seats to expose the relays. I try it again but there's so much clicking that I can't really tell what's doing what.

We pull the battery out of the car and test it. It's good.

Put a new one in the car just to check. Turn the key... click click click nothing.

Put the old one back in. SHE STARTS RIGHT UP.

I drive her home where I parked her, tried to start it again, and nothing...dead.

I pulled the main relay from behind the passenger seat, opened it up, and it looks nearly brand new, no cracks or separations in the solder, but it could be internal and I just don't see it.

Another idea is that it may be the ignition switch ( after searching through some threads here on Prime ). I'm going to pull it out, open it up, and see if there's any breaks or separations of the solder.

What about grounds?

Does anyone have any ideas? I can provide more information upon request.

The car will jump off 1 out of 3 times, but it's very intermittent and not very reliable. And the one time it started just fine!

Thanks in advance!

Jared

 

[LJSB]

Ideas:

Main relay.
Check cable connections to starter.
Check battery cable(s).
Check neutral safety switch: adjustment or replacement.
Check ignition switch.

Start testing and diagnosing the above.

 

[usafdarkhorse]

OK I can find all of the above except the neutral safety switch.

I'll be switching out the main relay tomorrow for a known good piece. I've opened up mine and it looks good, but I may resolder it anyway.

The ignition switch is where I'm leaning right now.

The battery cables are tight and not corroded ( verified this today :biggrin

Haven't checked the starter cables.

What about grounds?

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

If your main relay is OK, then check your ignition switch. Mine had the same problem- so I had a new relay and ignition switch installed along with new battery. Turns out the starter kill function on the aftermarket alarm was interfering with the ignition switch (so I had it removed). Starts up everytime now.

 

[britlude]

resolder the main relay....

mine wouldn't start a couple of times, and the relay looked fine, nice bright joints, no flaws, but i soldered it anyway...

when i melted the relay joints, the bright solder melted from the pins, and showed that they had corroded UNDER the solder. it's all looks fine until the iron hits it. i had to desolder, scrape and retin the pins to solder it up again, no problems since!

hope that helps

 

[usafdarkhorse]

resolder the main relay....

mine wouldn't start a couple of times, and the relay looked fine, nice bright joints, no flaws, but i soldered it anyway...

when i melted the relay joints, the bright solder melted from the pins, and showed that they had corroded UNDER the solder. it's all looks fine until the iron hits it. i had to desolder, scrape and retin the pins to solder it up again, no problems since!

hope that helps

That helps immensely.

I had suspected that even though it looked completely fine, there may be cracks and breaks in the solder internally.

 

[SOURCE 1]

Jared, Sorry I did not get back to you last night. I am in a wedding tonight and the rehersal dinner was last night..

When you hear the click is it a dead battery click sound or a relay click sound basically loud or quiet clicking?

I can't see it being a neutral safety switch if it is a loud click. If it is a relay click sound then that is possible.

Definately try the main relay first. But again if the click is a loud dead battery sound click that is prob not it wither. If when turning the key you get a loud click,click,click,click, rapidly after one another that is a dead battery or a battery that is getting shorted out. I would then look toward the ignition system.

Sorry I am not more help today. I will be at the wedding from 230 on. If you have not figured this out tomorrow call me and I will get my NSX tech on the phone for you to discuss further...

 

[usafdarkhorse]

Thanks Brian.

The clicking is a loud click. I pulled off the upper rear bolster behind the seats and listened as well and there was alot of clicking. There's alot of clicking in general in the cabin area when I try to start the car, just rapid fire clicking.

The voltmeter shows 12V into the on position and then drops to 10V and continues dropping when I turn to ignite.

I don't think it's a battery grounding issue as all the lights come on EVERY TIME, but maybe it could be a starter ground.

I received a known good Main Relay from another Prime member local to me to try out, and I'll do that here in a few hours.

I hope it's the Main Relay, but the situation is increasingly pointing toward the Ignition Switch as the cause of the problem ( which isn't all that hard to replace either ).

More developments to come...

 

[usafdarkhorse]

Update:

Tried the main relay that was known to be good. No luck.

Also I've noticed as I try to start the car, all the interior lights go dim and flicker ( not getting the juice ).

I've heard that the main symptoms pointing toward the ignition switch are that the car will start and immediately stall.

My car, when it actually starts, will run fine. This is the first time I've turned the car off and it won't start again. No prior indications that I might have an issue starting wise.

 

[sicarius82]

i had the same problem. a bunch of the guys came over to help and we found out that the battery was bad. i replaced the battery, and then it happened again. this time i found that the lugs on the battery terminal were bad. so I went to Pep Boys to buy a set of new "color" terminal lugs. all fixed. take a look at that.

long

 

[usafdarkhorse]

Another update:

Tried to jump the car via the jump start bypass on the left side of the engine compartment. Apparently this is to tell if the ignition switch is bad.

Unplugged the solenoid connector. Turned the key to the ON position, depressed the clutch, connected a 2 ft wire from the jump start bypass to the solenoid connection.

A bunch of clicking, but no go.

I'm going to pull the battery tonight and look at the cable ends. They look decent, but I'm going to clean them.

Even if all of the lights come on and everything works fine electrically, could I still have a bad battery ground?

Where is this fabled neutral safety switch?

 

[mr_na2&ap1]

Hey Jared,

It sounds to me like you might have a malfunctioning starter. The easiest way to know or check to see if your battery has the sufficient amps to start your car is while holding at the "start" position, all the lights should dim, but not to the point where they turn off while holding at the "start" position. Another way of verifying is simply meter the voltage at the battery while holding at the "start" position. But obviously, you'll need an extra set of hands to do that. If your battery's voltage drops to 11 volts DC, or less - your battery is either bad, not holding a charge or your alternator is not charging your battery. *IMPORTANT*, before you start to troubleshoot the electrical problem at hand, MAKE SURE your battery is fully charged and not just fully charged, but also has the amps, if not, you're just going in circles. Or better yet, do your testings with a brand new, fresh battery. This in itself will elimitate the "battery" part of troubleshooting and will speed your way to the real root of your problem.

A neutral safety switch is only found in automatic vehicles. I'm guessing your car is manual and therefore don't have one. But however, we do have a clutch starting switch. This switch basically interrupts power going directly to the starter, which prevents accidental vehicle movements when the car is left in gear. The easiest way to really test if this switch works or not is to simply start the car without the clutch depressed. You should hear nothing, other than the "normal" clicks that occur prior to start-up, (ie. fuel pump, ignition modules, etc). Now, try starting your car with the clutch depressed. If you hear a loud click everytime you turn the key to the "start" position and back to "on" and to "start" again, the clutch starting switch is functioning.

The possible loud click you're hearing is from your starter. Everytime a starter is energized, the teeth gears rotate out from the starter housing neck and it starts to spin and in doing so, turns the flywheel to start the car. That click you hear is the weak movement of the teeth gear not able to rotate out of the housing.

There are a couple of ways to determine whether or not your starter is malfunctioning. I'll just give you the 2 most obvious/easiest:

1) Jack the rear of the car up and locate the starter. Now, with something solid, a crow bar or the handle end of a heavy duty screwdriver or pry bar, strike the starter housing once or twice. There's no need to use extreme force and you're not trying to damage the internals of the starter. A real good "TAP" should do the trick. Now, try and start the car. If it does start, a starter replacement should be at the top of your list, but if it doesn't, try the next step:

2) You'll need a couple of friends to do this or if you live on a hill, even better. Position the car down a hill or have your friends push your car on flat, open road. You'll need to be in the driver's seat once this gets under way. Turn and leave your key at the "on" position, with the clutch depressed, shift into 3rd gear, while keeping the clutch depressed, have your friends push your car to steady 10 to 15 MPH. Release the clutch and your car should vroom into life.

Now, if your car can be started in the last step, it confirms a few things: A) Your battery/charging circuit is either good or ok and probably doesn't need to be replaced or checked. B) Fuel delivery and all its components are functioning. And finally, C) Electrical circuits are also performing the way they should.

Now, with the car running, turn it off and see if you can start the car again without the help of humans. If not, and you still hear that click, I'm sure it's your starter. Now, if you still can't start your car with the "ol' push and pop" technique, something else is wrong and a thorough diagnostic is required.

Let me know what the outcome is, good luck!

 

[Rtype1206]

+1 on the starter! Sounds like the shaft inside is not moving. Go ahead and remove it and take it to any automotive store that does free testing. Hopefully that helps you :smile:

 

[SOURCE 1]

Jared,

As far as the starter goes usually that will simply make one click when turning the key. Not a succession of clicks.

If your getting loud click in succession you have a battery /voltage problem.

Go to your local parts store Buy a battery, also get two new battery terminal ends and reinstall.

Let me know.

 

[Rtype1206]

I think in the beginning he tested the old battery and even used a new one but still same issue...Any how let us know the outcome

Jared,

As far as the starter goes usually that will simply make one click when turning the key. Not a succession of clicks.

If your getting loud click in succession you have a battery /voltage problem.

Go to your local parts store Buy a battery, also get two new battery terminal ends and reinstall.

Let me know.

 

[usafdarkhorse]

Could be that the new battery wasn't charged either?

I don't think it's the starter, but I'm open to trying anything.

It WILL jump every now and then, but can't start itself under its own power.

 

[tom4416]

New batteries often need charging before using, especially if the store doesn't properly rotate shelf stock. If you pick up a battery that's been sitting on a shelf for six months, good chance it's down on the charge and needs an overnight shot to bring it up. And reading the voltage is not a sufficient test, it has to be put under a load tester to see if it has sufficient power to start the car. Although putting jumper cables on with a partially charged battery should start the car so not sure that's your problem.

 

[usafdarkhorse]

My battery was tested under a load tester and it was fine, although I'm hearing from some people that even this isn't enough and that it could still not start the car.

I pulled the battery terminal connectors off and noticed there was a bit of corrosion on the connectors and the cables themselves. I went out and bought new terminals and have just installed them and I've cleaned the ends of the cables with a wire brush and some corrosion stuff.

We'll see if this works.

 

[ralph cerbone]

forget all this nonsence,the fact that you changed the battery and it started tells you its is a bad connection at your terminals or cables, the click you hear is the solenoid pulling in ,it in turn has to pass the full battery current down to the starter, if there is a bad connection at the battery or anywhere in the high amperage circuit of the car the starter will clik,clik ,clik and not start,all your lights will function properly, they do not draw excessive amperage, check your terminals,and connections at the starter, a voltage drop test at the solenoid will be conclusive

 

[usafdarkhorse]

I was on the phone earlier today with Brian ( SOURCENSX ) and he heard a little bit of what I was dealing with.

I wasn't about to go pulling starters!

Haha I actually removed the terminals earlier today and found a bit of corrosion on the cables and the connectors on the battery.

After using a wire brush and some corrosion spray, reforming the cable ends, and getting new terminals for the cable connections, she started right up! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Success!

I'm really glad this was a $6 fix and not something much more.

The key was that, even if the cables and terminals LOOK good, even a little bit of corrosion or a slight impedance can cause too much resistance in pulling the amperage to the starter, resulting in no starting at all despite all the other systems working perfectly.

 

[SOURCE 1]

Glad you got it handled Jared, Now get to enjoying that car!

 

[EK4 hatchback]

I have the same issue couple times and i have inquire with my mechanic about it. He told me it is the starter because i am not alone on this issue. Next time, if the same issue come up, try use a metal bar to hit the starter, if it start right after that, i would think it is the starter.

 

[usafdarkhorse]

Well, the interesting thing is that the starter is not normally a part that fails on the NSX.

There's a myriad of easier and more likely causes of why an NSX will not start ( as a Prime member here showed me in a recent NSXCA publication on common maintenance issues ).

The key here was realizing that it was a battery voltage issue by the tell-tale clicking.

This is the second time that replacing the battery terminals has rendered one of my cars operable again ( old Datsun Z ). My connectors didn't even look that corroded, so make sure ( like SOURCENSX says ) to tackle the easy stuff first before you drop money on something which may or may not work.

I think the saying goes that a tech will keep changing parts out until something works.
A mechanic figures out the problem.

 

[tom4416]

Now go buy some of the battery corrosion protection spray from the parts store and prevent the problem in the foreseeable future.