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Credit Card Reform Rant.

ok mr. sarcasm, it has been fine for decades for banks to be making money on 'normal' rates until someone figured out they can make more by praying on young, disadvantaged and yes, the idiots. if you are trying to portray banks as a 'poor, fair organisation' that is bullied by the 'big, bad, government' why don't you tell me why are we in a recession?
and btw, everything in life worth anything requires expertise and looking at oil company profits i don't feel sorry for them at all-
next time you fly to see your grandma think of me making those engines while picking my nose after dropping out of high-school- no experience necessary.
 
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Just like how "big oil" is ripping us all off while .001% of the population has any understanding as to the risk, capital, time, and expertise involved in getting oil out of the ground.

Or the discipline to give up the products they use every day which they have NO IDEA contain oil. :rolleyes:

Those same people who bitch about $4/gallon gas will pay $35 for a gallon of Starbucks coffee. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
ok mr. sarcasm, it has been fine for decades for banks to be making money on 'normal' rates until someone figured out they can make more by praying on young, disadvantaged and yes, the idiots. if you are trying to portray banks as a 'poor, fair organisation' that is bullied by the 'big, bad, government' why don't you tell me why are we in a recession?

Because the big bad government forced the banks to lend to folks who had little to no business securing loans! :wink:
 
Get this...

I have a Chase Visa card that has not a balance on it for years. $10,000 limit. I charged a dental implant (about $3,300) on it last month. Monday I receive a letter, my credit limit is now $3,350. Reduced due to recent credit use/activity. I have never missed a payment on a CC, cars or my home. My card is now maxed out and my score has dropped because of it. :confused: :mad:
 
Moderator: If you delete this, a fundamentally true statement, please, really, ban me. You can hide behind "private forum" all you want, but people aren't buying it.

Here's the deal: If you keep taking digs at Hal as moderator of Off Topic, I'll kick you off myself. Calm down, play nice, and tread lightly on politics and religion. This forum is not your (or anyone else's) personal political soapbox. I have no further patience with your endless complaints about political discussion in Off Topic. If it is not acceptable to you, leave. End of discussion.

P.S. I just refunded your $25 donation to the site from August 11, 2009. I appreciate the thought, but I don't want money from someone who is perpetually dissatisfied with the way the site is run.
 
the banks are doing whatever they can to make money from whomever they can make it.

ken, they actually asked you if you'd like your interest rate raised? "uh, sure, can you double it, then triple it 3 months later cause i'll be finished paying my alimony payments then and will have some extra cash to burn."

Yes, apparently they asked me. It's like the privacy disclosures that businesses send you. One that I got recently said, "If you don't want us to disclose your personal information fill out this form and mail it in." Buried deep within that letter was the address to which I was to mail it. No envelope was furnished and I had to use my own stamp.
 
Yes, apparently they asked me. It's like the privacy disclosures that businesses send you. One that I got recently said, "If you don't want us to disclose your personal information fill out this form and mail it in." Buried deep within that letter was the address to which I was to mail it. No envelope was furnished and I had to use my own stamp.
and they'll keep doing that kind of thing as long as they can get away with it.

re business / customer relationship, it seems to me the best way to demonstrate we don't like how we're being treated is to vote with our feet.
 
Or the discipline to give up the products they use every day which they have NO IDEA contain oil. :rolleyes:

QUOTE]

just as an info, we can make most of that stuff without use of oil (plastics for instance), it just became 'easier and more profitable'.
 
Bs. 27 times republicans in congress tried to bring about regulation on the banks and there forced risky lending and each time they where voted down by democrats led by chris dodd and Barney frank who's bf worked for Fannie Mae. This risky forced lending was directly enforced by acorn who would threaten banks with discrimination lawsuits if they didn't. The same acorn that is directly tied to Obama and has been found liable in several states for voter fraud and recently caught on tape encouraging forced protitution of underage girls.

This whole blame bush crap is getting old.
 
fair enaugh- i am neither a dem or a rep but the truth always lies in the middle. i wasn't exactly blaiming bush but trying to indicate that his party is the one mostly sponsored by big business hence mostly susceptable to influence. fact is that government f-d up by letting banks do what they wanted. you all know that the risky loans were questionable, but the whole default crap was caused by the derivatives and other 'dreamed-up' investment calculations used by banks to dump the problems on each other.
biscuit, since you seem to have in-depth info on this, wasn't it bush who initially removed clinton era financial regulations?
 
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I love to see some of the younger members here getting fed up with having to pay for those that do not, have not and never will. Get use to it.

I don't care about my credit score, much to the disappointment to the credit card people who have at least one commercial on every five minutes telling you that you must pay attention to your credit score or you will be working for Burger King or something equally miserable (no offense to those young people working their way through school). I have one credit card and I pay it in full every month. I pay cash as I go and own my cars. I laugh when I hear people worried about their payments and credit scores. Buy what you can afford and you won't have any trouble.

I had to laugh this morning I was on another site, sorry. It was a Mercedes site and some member posted that he just "signed" for a new Mercedes and was wondering if he would be able to make the payments but said he "just had to have it". I remembering people talking about "signing" for their house when they bought one as that was something few could ever pay for upon purchase. Now we have a society where people apparently never even consider a car they have saved for and actually buy. They lease and wonder why they have no money - ever. I would imagine most of the leased cars are not leases because their financial planner or CPA told them to lease a car.

OK, sorry. I hate credit cards and credit card companies. Peace out.
 
1st off McCain is a Socalist just like Obama, so don't think I'm endorsing the guy.


This whole debacle was caused by the government, our whole fractional reserve banking system, the FED, fiat currency not being tied to gold, government dictated Fannie and Freddie, Housing for "everyone" laws, the banks are so powerful they own the government, Clinton's Glass-Steagall act repeal, Bush controlled the house and senate for years and didn't stop any of the outrageous housing laws, even after he was warned. McCain and Obama wanted the stimulus and bank bailouts, it's disgusting. The whole upper level of government is whored out.

There is a positive side effect though, we need to start saving again, last I checked the average American owes $500 and has no savings, compared to the Chinese and others where they save 10%+. Hopefully we'll start buying stuff in cash or with debit cards.

I don't care about my credit score anymore, even if it was good it's almost impossible to buy a house / car. I'm going to live within my means. If I buy a house it will be in Las Vegas or something.. Have you seen the houses in Las Vegas for $90k? They're the same as the ones in CA for $600,000 ... Sort by price on realtor.com NV and AZ & surrounding areas.
 
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good post.
one thing though- why do we think of social ideas as rotten (and no, i don't mean more money to a crack-whore with 9 kids)? afterall control of finances, health care and natural resources benefit all citizens and shield them from abuse and profiteering. everything else can be a free-for-all like it is now and was before, but those areas should be controlled in some fashion and that does not make you a 'commie'.
 
good post.
one thing though- why do we think of social ideas as rotten (and no, i don't mean more money to a crack-whore with 9 kids)? afterall control of finances, health care and natural resources benefit all citizens and shield them from abuse and profiteering. everything else can be a free-for-all like it is now and was before, but those areas should be controlled in some fashion and that does not make you a 'commie'.
I would love to have free health care for all and other civilized public programs, even welfare, but we just don't have the resources, at least not yet. Actually I agree that those would be good services to offer the public, I do believe that in the future we will have efficient technology that will allow government run public program, in a Startrek-esque society without the spandex.

For the time being though, next 50 years or so, it's not going to be possible unless some major cost cutting breakthroughs in technology are made.

Check out the movie IOUSA , it's on google video or youtube... Basically they show you that pie chart of the US Federal budget. With the rate we're spending money on Social Security , Medicare, Medicade, and "Defense" (offense) and Interest on money owed there's no way to keep this existing model afloat. We just elect the next pre-selected liar to the White House and he steals as much money as he can for the next 4 years and band aids everything he can without fixing any long term problems, and the next liar is elected in our fake 2 party system. Even if we dropped Medicare and had people dieing in the streets we'll still get overrun with interest in 10-20 years, so government run health care will just be another social service we can't afford.

We have to cut half of this pie or more to pay for the debt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png
3 Trillion is our yearly budget, we owe $202 trillion in derivatives in notional value, with only a fraction backed up with assets.

As it stands we owe something like 1 times the GDP of the world and 4 times with derivatives , it's unlikely that we will find a long term fix and hyperinflation looks like it's going to be a reality, unless the rest of the world is dumb enough to keep lending us money.

There's also the:
China Bubble
Commercial Realestate Bubble
Derivatives Bubble
Dumping of the Dollar as the world currency
Hyperinflation

One of these pops and were really screwed, so as it stands the US government doesn't even have the money to pay for it's existing services, to add a new one would just hasten the collapse.

Also I don't trust the government since they constantly lie and just about every program they have is a disaster and they're 80% controlled by unions when compared to the private sector. Just for example most corporations have 10% of bad apples that have to be fired, they're just bad employees. Well for the whole state of California, 7th biggest economy in the world, they fired less than 80 teachers last year I believe. There's no way that's going to be efficient. There's countless other scenarios of government waste, but generally the government never does anything better than private businesses. Private business aren't perfect, but better than the US Gov. Take charter schools for example vs public schools. If you have a system where you can't fire people, with jobs for life it will fail.
 
ok mr. sarcasm, it has been fine for decades for banks to be making money on 'normal' rates until someone figured out they can make more by praying on young, disadvantaged and yes, the idiots. if you are trying to portray banks as a 'poor, fair organisation' that is bullied by the 'big, bad, government' why don't you tell me why are we in a recession?
and btw, everything in life worth anything requires expertise and looking at oil company profits i don't feel sorry for them at all-
next time you fly to see your grandma think of me making those engines while picking my nose after dropping out of high-school- no experience necessary.

You are doing it again swerve.. claiming I said obviously false/illogical points to enable yourself to ignore the parts which are difficult to refute. The banks' objective to earn revenue over the long term. Distortion of the law, fraud, political manipulation, etc. does not modify their objective, it modifies how they go about reaching it. If they are forced to lend to poorer individuals by the government, they will still try to make money. Of course, as you and I have just witnessed, it certainly doesn't always work out that way. I don't feel sorry for the banks, nor have I ever said so (again, corresponding with your false statement about what I said to degrade/ignore the substance of what I posted).

Regarding what you posted about giving credit cards to young people, it is stupid and very damaging to many college age people. It's certainly a net negative on society. However, the problem is most likely not the credit card companies. You can get into debt a million different ways, even with no/minimal credit. The issue is personal responsibility. If the terms or unclear/manipulative that's one case, but if people more or less comprehend what they are getting themselves into but decide to do it anyway, you can't fix* that type of behavior by avoiding it. It's a symptom of a much larger problem, the complete failure of our educational system to teach financial matters. We learn about all sorts of things in high school that are wholly irrelavent, but no one teaches us the risks of credit card use or how the interest rate on a mortgage is usually if not always more important than the purchase price as far as calculating how much the home truly costs. Most people I know don't even know what the rule of 72 is.

Although I am a securities trader with a short term focus (and zero loyalty to any firm as I use my own capital), my education was focused on attempting to develop a thesis or rationale about today's predicaments based on infinite information about politics/economics/human behavior/etc. Often one or two themes actually explain 99% of the resultants from a given situation.

As I've said before, "Wall Street" or more accurately the U.S. financial markets and those persons associated with it, is the most heavily regulated industry on planet earth by a significant margin. If smashing your C32 motor with a hammer doesn't get it started, hitting it with a sledge hammer is most likely not going to solve the problem.
 
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I think its obvious that banks will try to increase revenue anyway possible,esp for stuff that we get lazy about like atm fees about cc's: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SmartSpending/blog/page.aspx?post=1330810&_blg=1,1330810
thx for the article, no real surprises, eh?

yesterday i received my new bank debit card in the mail and for the first time - ever - because of this thread, i read the terms. no real surprises in there, either and it was interesting to learn of the loss limit terms.
 
I've had one of my cards go from 5.9% fixed to 20-something percent variable. Yes, my feet did the talking... (And yes, my credit score is over 800.) I'm now in the search for another credit card- I like to keep two, for emergency purposes.

I think some of the reform is essential- the 21 days for billing, for example. I had lived in an area where it took a good 5-7 business days for mail to get to me from halfway across the country and another 5-7 days back. I ran into a situation where I would receive a bill the day after I would have had to mailed the check in on time, because the bank was trying to make me default. I had kept old statements which proved that over a course of the year, the bank had upped the due date almost 2 weeks, trying to trip us up on a late payment.

Other "fairness" reforms that restrict harmful business tactics are good for the consumer.

However, the reforms made to "help" those who aren't smart enough to read, learn, and understand the terms is what is hurting the rest of us. I think it's fair that banks give risky borrowers high interest rates and low credit limits until they are deemed trustworthy. My first card had a $1k limit and high interest until my credit history necessitated a re-evaluation.

I also believe that this is a "bandaid" to a larger issue- people are not learning accountability and fiscal responsibility. People have to have the latest trend, even though it may significantly risk their financial well being. This also applies to those who lie on their incomes to get that bigger house or those who have to have that new Mercedes in their driveway.

In this day and age, a credit card is essential if you do any type of traveling. Yes, you can use your ATM card, but many hotels/motels are now requiring $300 or more deposit from your card, which you may not see back for weeks. Imagine a multi-destination trip- that $300/hotel plus $150/car rental can mean thousands of your money tied up unnecessarily.

The one good thing this past year that has happened- the average savings rate for an American has gone from negative to positive!

Oh, and for the person who mentioned the rule of 72- both my wife and I know it (and neither of us are in finance or banking)!
 
fair enaugh- i am neither a dem or a rep but the truth always lies in the middle. i wasn't exactly blaiming bush but trying to indicate that his party is the one mostly sponsored by big business hence mostly susceptable to influence. fact is that government f-d up by letting banks do what they wanted. you all know that the risky loans were questionable, but the whole default crap was caused by the derivatives and other 'dreamed-up' investment calculations used by banks to dump the problems on each other.
biscuit, since you seem to have in-depth info on this, wasn't it bush who initially removed clinton era financial regulations?

Nope it initially started with the community investment act under Carter. Clinton doubled down on it. Bush apparently tried to bring about regulation of banks but it failed under a democratically controlled congress.
 
completely right- who was in charge at the time? bush = big business and banks.

Sorry sir.

The CRA was drafted by the Carter administration, and updated by the Clinton administration.
 
good post.
one thing though- why do we think of social ideas as rotten (and no, i don't mean more money to a crack-whore with 9 kids)? afterall control of finances, health care and natural resources benefit all citizens and shield them from abuse and profiteering. everything else can be a free-for-all like it is now and was before, but those areas should be controlled in some fashion and that does not make you a 'commie'.

Because no matter how good the intentions, social programs brought about by the federal government will never be able to operate in a fiscally responsible nature.

And there are two reasons.....

One - because the participants have no skin in the game. They are playing with other people's money. So there is no incentive to work hard or make things work better.

Which brings us to number 2...

Government Inefficiency. Take any well run organization and turn it over to the government. It will be in financial ruin very shortly. The government is just too big, and too lazy to make anything a viable enterprise.

And just fyi - free for alls are good. They bring about competition, which in turn lowers prices, which in turn works to ensure that the consumer is getting the best product for the money. I'm not sure why some people can't grasp this.

2 examples:

Consumer electronics - one of the industries that has benefitted from copious amounts of competition. How cheap and effective is a dvd player today?

Automobiles - look at the strides we've accomplished in the past 20 years. It's ridiculous. All because of good competition.
 
The only time I use credit is when it has 12months no intrest deals, like on my washer dryer and tv. The way I look at it is every 12months I can get 6% - 8% more off in safe investments, in 11 months I write a check for the total amount. People that have CC's paying 20% let me know who you are, I will loan you the money at that rate lol :biggrin:
 
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