Perhaps a previous owner was not as prudent with oil changes?
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Engine Failed, CTSC Damaged
- Thread starter NSXROC
- Start date
Perhaps a previous owner was not as prudent with oil changes?
- Joined
- 13 May 2004
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- 492
I've owned the car for 3 years and the routine oil changes were done very frequent. Assume that the previous owner did not change the oil as often, can it contribute to issue with my engine?
Anything could be possible from the engine being made near a major japanese holiday, on a MOnday or Friday, previous owner care, etc.....
Although very unscientific, I have found that cars, and especially the NSX does not quite feel as "powerful" and "happy" for the first couple of hundred miles after an oil change. 
I try to wait a few hundred miles before mashing on it...
Just doing my part in spreading FUD...
I try to wait a few hundred miles before mashing on it...Just doing my part in spreading FUD...
If it was an oiling issue, you would either see it in the bearings, or a bearing would have spun first. Breaking a crank just isn't normal unless in severe distress or a flaw in it from the beginning. You would probably also see some wear issue on the cams/followers etc if the oil was bad enough to do damage of this sort. I would guess against it.
I've been following this thread... Tried to call you but you didn't answer...
Unfortunately, I still remember the first oil change I did for you back when you just got your car. I remember clearly that it's not only a short filter, it's an off brand one... That could be a bad sign of owner skimming money in Maintanence. Not that we could prove or anything. There's no scientific prove of bad oil disintergrate the crank either....
I know nsxroc for years, and he just babied his car. He also didn't track his car and had a good certified mechanic taking care of the nsx.
What I'm trying to say is that, FI really did put more stress to the engine no matter how you use the car.. As good as Honda engines, especially the nsx ones, they are still old engine at the end of the day... in terms of mileage and age.
I'm as anti FI as one nsx owner could be...:tongue: (from a practical stand point of a cheapass guy who had 3 L's. Lack of Money, Lack of time and Lack of driving skills.) But this really an alarming note for everyone who had a super charger or turbo in, preventive measure must be taken. no matter you track the car or not.
The engine bearings (or any other part of this engine) show no signs of abnormal wear or poor lubrication.
As disconcerting as it my be to accept, the reality is that this crankshaft failed. it is unusual to be sure but there are no signs that this was anything but a part failure.
JZ
As disconcerting as it my be to accept, the reality is that this crankshaft failed. it is unusual to be sure but there are no signs that this was anything but a part failure.
JZ
Donny, sorry to hear about your loss
I'm @ 142k miles on the odo, and making 347RWHP on a low boost whipple...and I use Torco for insurance...no regrets...http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1831025&highlight=torco
I have 2 NSX engines sitting in my garage. A '92 with 50K miles and a '93 with 80K miles. PM me.
Ski_Banker
Suspended
Even if this wasn't caused by cold weather detonation, it could happen if any of you FI guys ever buy el cheapo high octane gas. Those ghetto gas stations often use the same stuff in every pump. Something to keep in mind...
That sounds like the perfect donor for a STROKER MOTOR:wink:
Bummer this happened, good luck with the re-build, no matter how you go.
Dave
After reading most of both pages and wanting to jot down a few things before I forgot them. Based on your initial picture I wanted to share my experience with OE pistons. After reading a few more posts I see that John has found additional evidence that leads him to believe the crank was the source of the problem. I will get back to this later but first here was what I was originally going to share.
Belt theory, CTSC sensitivity, Tune, Octane are all possibilities for causing detonation. Other possibilities exist and it would defiantly be beneficial for this community to investigate and report what it was. However your extreme result with this kind of power is isolated and usually caused by additional variables like heavy track use, higher horsepower, aftermarket engine management, or even oil consumption. What I really want to impress on everyone is that the OE pistons don’t handle detonation well and should be replaced with forged pistons if boosted or even N/A with aftermarket engine management. Ceramic coatings wont solve the problem, the detonation will just collapse the ring lands. The problem isn’t specifically the increase in power; it is the instability of the aftermarket engineering and the lack of ability for the pistons to absorb those inconsistencies. In two separate engine builds I have made 498 and 490 at the wheels with out ever taking the heads off the engine so the engine can handle at least short bursts of power with no detonation. Of course these were time bombs where the customer knew the potential consequences, could afford to replace it and never did more then bench race or the occasional dyno pull. I have also had 360 hp engines detonate holes in the pistons and a number of engines collapse ring lands. All because of detonation. Detonation produces an unbelievable amount of condensed power. If I were to include all the people I personally know who have had similar results with stock pistons, one might say that if you know what I do it would be crazy not to change the pistons when modified as described. It’s very unfortunate for you that the failure took out other expensive parts.
I built a new T-sleeved engine for a friend of mine, and he had me rebuild his original engine as a back up and he has never used it. If you have any interest e-mail me and I will give you his contact info. I don’t recall from memory all the engine details but I know it is new and has forged pistons along with many other improvements.
Now the crank- I have a customer (also a friend) who originally had a Basch rebuilt FI engine that broke a crank… only a crank. In fact the engine would still run/idle with two separate sections of crank. He blamed the FI/engine management/builder, but just prior to the crank braking his Centerforce clutch let go in a way that the imbalance of free moving parts actually cracked his trans housing and bent the input shaft. I believe this was the true cause of the crank failure. All other crank failures have been caused by other part failures. I have never even seen a crank fail with oil pump gear failures at 150 mph at Daytona, or from bearing failure. But I have seen several cranks fail from lost valve keepers, lost valves, and lost pistons. All causing the pistons to rock and wedge cracking blocks, braking cranks, rods, ruining heads etc. Maybe it was still the piston before the egg.
Getting late and I have to drive to Watkins Glen tomorrow.
Is it fair to conclude that the NSX is best kept NA on a stock motor?
If you want HP and cheap HP get a MKIV?
If you want HP and cheap HP get a MKIV?
no, just do the build right and put some pistons in.
- Joined
- 13 May 2004
- Messages
- 492
Most of the production engines would need pistons and more. Remember, in this thread were talking about hard track use, faulty engine management, supercharging, or sustaining 500 whp.
It is amazing what we are expecting from a 6 cylinder. The stock NSX is one of the best for handling track abuse. I’m not sure that any of the production cars do a better job with this amount of HP. If you know of one, give me a day at the track to prove you wrong.
I still have an NSX that my wife drives daily, but I purchased a C5 Corvette to turn into a Supercar because of the tire size (Known as one of the best track cars). My first event the brake pedal went to the floor and stayed there. I improved that area and my second event I realized that I could over heat the engine 260f water 308f Oil. Even the Miata will overheat with the OE radiator. The point is that I have never seen a better OE track car then the NSX, and tracking is more abusive then anything most will do to a car.
Thats what you get for selling out!!! :biggrin:
Hi Mike and Ken,
(Nice mag cover) Your splitter looks like a big tongue… maybe you should paint it red.
And quit sneaking up behind import models.
(Nice mag cover) Your splitter looks like a big tongue… maybe you should paint it red.
And quit sneaking up behind import models.
- Joined
- 13 May 2004
- Messages
- 492
Hi Everyone,
I can’t believe the time went by so quick. The last post was back in October 07. Well, I have some good news. I finally got my car back last Friday 5/16/08. My engine failure ordeal ended after exactly 213 days. It’s just a bit over 7 months.
It took awhile because of many factors. It was almost impossible to find a new Autorotor supercharger blower. We ended finding one, but we had to use the snout on the old blower. There were some issues with the car. There was the ground issue. John had to replace some ground cables. There were the issues with car surging and hesitation at low RPM, not to mention the poor throttle response. I bought the Topspeed header, there was a weld issue with the headers (Topspeed took care of me immediately, top notch vendor), so there was a little delay with the install. Also, it took me some time to finish installing the Innovate LM-1 and LM-3 (Wideband AF Ratio gauge and data logger).
John tried patiently to pin down the exact problem with the car. I believe other than the ground cable, he swapped out the ignition coil. He checked and reseal the intake manifold to ensure that there was no vacuum leak. He even borrowed the map sensor from his own car to verify that there’s nothing wrong with mine. There were other things he’d done to help putting my car together.
In the end, the car was brought back alive by using hotter spark plugs and adjust the timing (a box in the engine compartment). The spark plugs that came from Comptech were too “cool” to be used with a low compression piston engine. They were too much unused fuel, which caused the hesitation and surging.
My car now runs strong! It doesn’t feel too much different as far as the performance goes. I do sense the different response (well, low compression) from the new low compression piston engine. I am in love with my car again (you can’t’ possible believe the worries and the agony I had when I was driving my car with all the problems unaddressed).
I think if I go a step further and adopt AEM EMS, I will get more performance out of the car and the car might drive even better. But the major drawback is that I will sacrifice the on-board diagnostics. I am okay with my car now, but I will keep my mind open for a stand alone engine management system.
I would like to thank everyone who had provided all your input and Racer-X21 for his referral to acquiring my new engine. Special thanks to John (Zanhtech). He had spent countless hours trying to figure out what the heck was wrong with my car and answering my questions almost on a daily basis. Thanks John, you're the man!!!!!
I can’t believe the time went by so quick. The last post was back in October 07. Well, I have some good news. I finally got my car back last Friday 5/16/08. My engine failure ordeal ended after exactly 213 days. It’s just a bit over 7 months.
It took awhile because of many factors. It was almost impossible to find a new Autorotor supercharger blower. We ended finding one, but we had to use the snout on the old blower. There were some issues with the car. There was the ground issue. John had to replace some ground cables. There were the issues with car surging and hesitation at low RPM, not to mention the poor throttle response. I bought the Topspeed header, there was a weld issue with the headers (Topspeed took care of me immediately, top notch vendor), so there was a little delay with the install. Also, it took me some time to finish installing the Innovate LM-1 and LM-3 (Wideband AF Ratio gauge and data logger).
John tried patiently to pin down the exact problem with the car. I believe other than the ground cable, he swapped out the ignition coil. He checked and reseal the intake manifold to ensure that there was no vacuum leak. He even borrowed the map sensor from his own car to verify that there’s nothing wrong with mine. There were other things he’d done to help putting my car together.
In the end, the car was brought back alive by using hotter spark plugs and adjust the timing (a box in the engine compartment). The spark plugs that came from Comptech were too “cool” to be used with a low compression piston engine. They were too much unused fuel, which caused the hesitation and surging.
My car now runs strong! It doesn’t feel too much different as far as the performance goes. I do sense the different response (well, low compression) from the new low compression piston engine. I am in love with my car again (you can’t’ possible believe the worries and the agony I had when I was driving my car with all the problems unaddressed).
I think if I go a step further and adopt AEM EMS, I will get more performance out of the car and the car might drive even better. But the major drawback is that I will sacrifice the on-board diagnostics. I am okay with my car now, but I will keep my mind open for a stand alone engine management system.
I would like to thank everyone who had provided all your input and Racer-X21 for his referral to acquiring my new engine. Special thanks to John (Zanhtech). He had spent countless hours trying to figure out what the heck was wrong with my car and answering my questions almost on a daily basis. Thanks John, you're the man!!!!!
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Glad you are back in the driver seat. have their been many issues or blown engines in that giant nopi comptech buying frenzy from a couple years ago?I dont see many of the guys that I know bought one even posting here anymore.
what is the state of the forced induction nsx community, is everyone still sharing data or doing it elsewhere. seems different or perhaps its me that has changed.
congrats on getting your car tweaked out correctly and enjoy! sounds like you have good shops where you are.
best regards david
what is the state of the forced induction nsx community, is everyone still sharing data or doing it elsewhere. seems different or perhaps its me that has changed.
congrats on getting your car tweaked out correctly and enjoy! sounds like you have good shops where you are.
best regards david
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