Re: What's 'revised' mean?
Maybe it will be a picture of Al Gore hugging a tree!
Maybe it will be a picture of Al Gore hugging a tree!
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
F1 2008 Megathread
- Thread starter Ponyboy
- Start date
Translated Q&A with Brawn talking about his spare time and his big hobby which is fishing.
Q: Ross, when did you start fishing and why ?
Brawn: ''As a boy my father took me to the surroundings of Manchester but many streams and lakes were polluted. Then my parents moved to the south of England in a region with wonderful rivers and lakes. I've been fishing for a big part of my life.''
Q: In 2006 you left Formula 1: how much did the desire to go fishing come into play in this decision ?
Brawn: ''My wife and I wanted to do a bit of travelling around the world and one of the reasons was to be able to visit some brilliant places to go fishing. One of the nicest things of fishing is being in contact with nature, it's not solemnly about actually catching the fish. In Mexico I didn't catch one but it was a great experience nontheless, (also) being in contact with wonderful people.''
Q: Apart from Mexico, where else have you been ?
Brawn: At the Seychelles a few times and in Argentinia. But the place I've remained for the longest period is New Zealand, I've been there for six weeks. My wife and daughthers came along. And their husbands went fishing with me.''
Q: Have you ever been fishing with some driver or technician from Formula 1 ?
Brawn: ''Yes, with Eddie Cheever, he's really passionate. A few times I've also gone fishing with Schumi in England. He's not passionate about it but had a good time. He's good at it. Last time he caught more fish than I did !''
Q: You're working in an environment where speed is essential, fishing on the other hand is sport of peacefulness and patience...
Brawn: ''In fact some things needs to be in contrast. But I love fishing because it allowes me to 'escape' from everything else, my mind only concentrates on the challenge of catching fish and the environment that is around me. I forget about the rest.''
Q: You only do fly-fishing ?
Brawn: ''It's the tecnique I like most. I'm passionate about fishing hooks, reels, and rods because these things are things related to technology, like the world of Formula 1 I live in. I've got a nice collection.''
Q: Have you ever found solutions regarding the races whilst you were fishing ?
Brawn: ''No because I try to turn off my mind when I'm fishing. But it allowes you to recharge your batteries. Thinking about something else for a day especially helps me in tense periods. Moreover, the mind works better after a day of fishing and perhaps it's even easier to find solutions then.''
Q: Have you never taken the advantage of going fishing whilst you were travelling all around the world in Formula 1 ?
Brawn: ''In Europe it's difficult. But in Australia and Fraser Island I'm dedicated on catching swordfish.''
Q: Do you go fishing in Italy also ?
Brawn: ''Last year I was in Florence and a friend of mine said to me: 'I will take you to a brilliant spot'. We've stepped in the car and at some point I saw we were heading towards Mugello. There's a beautiful stream there full of trout, only two kilometres away from the circuit. I've been at Ferrari for ten years but I've never known such an extraordinary place as that one...''
Q: Ross, when did you start fishing and why ?
Brawn: ''As a boy my father took me to the surroundings of Manchester but many streams and lakes were polluted. Then my parents moved to the south of England in a region with wonderful rivers and lakes. I've been fishing for a big part of my life.''
Q: In 2006 you left Formula 1: how much did the desire to go fishing come into play in this decision ?
Brawn: ''My wife and I wanted to do a bit of travelling around the world and one of the reasons was to be able to visit some brilliant places to go fishing. One of the nicest things of fishing is being in contact with nature, it's not solemnly about actually catching the fish. In Mexico I didn't catch one but it was a great experience nontheless, (also) being in contact with wonderful people.''
Q: Apart from Mexico, where else have you been ?
Brawn: At the Seychelles a few times and in Argentinia. But the place I've remained for the longest period is New Zealand, I've been there for six weeks. My wife and daughthers came along. And their husbands went fishing with me.''
Q: Have you ever been fishing with some driver or technician from Formula 1 ?
Brawn: ''Yes, with Eddie Cheever, he's really passionate. A few times I've also gone fishing with Schumi in England. He's not passionate about it but had a good time. He's good at it. Last time he caught more fish than I did !''
Q: You're working in an environment where speed is essential, fishing on the other hand is sport of peacefulness and patience...
Brawn: ''In fact some things needs to be in contrast. But I love fishing because it allowes me to 'escape' from everything else, my mind only concentrates on the challenge of catching fish and the environment that is around me. I forget about the rest.''
Q: You only do fly-fishing ?
Brawn: ''It's the tecnique I like most. I'm passionate about fishing hooks, reels, and rods because these things are things related to technology, like the world of Formula 1 I live in. I've got a nice collection.''
Q: Have you ever found solutions regarding the races whilst you were fishing ?
Brawn: ''No because I try to turn off my mind when I'm fishing. But it allowes you to recharge your batteries. Thinking about something else for a day especially helps me in tense periods. Moreover, the mind works better after a day of fishing and perhaps it's even easier to find solutions then.''
Q: Have you never taken the advantage of going fishing whilst you were travelling all around the world in Formula 1 ?
Brawn: ''In Europe it's difficult. But in Australia and Fraser Island I'm dedicated on catching swordfish.''
Q: Do you go fishing in Italy also ?
Brawn: ''Last year I was in Florence and a friend of mine said to me: 'I will take you to a brilliant spot'. We've stepped in the car and at some point I saw we were heading towards Mugello. There's a beautiful stream there full of trout, only two kilometres away from the circuit. I've been at Ferrari for ten years but I've never known such an extraordinary place as that one...''
Very good article on F1 CFD: http://www.f1technical.net/features/7922 by Honda's Henrik Diamant.
And a general F1 aero article: http://www.f1technical.net/features/7926
And a general F1 aero article: http://www.f1technical.net/features/7926
Last edited:
Still at the bottom of the charts.:frown:
Unofficial Thursday times from Valencia:
1. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 1:11.189
2. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 1:11.206
3. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:11.831
4. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 1:11.971
5. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:11.994
6. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 1:12.095
7. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 1:12.350
8. Sebastian Vettel, Toro Rosso, 1:12.526
9. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 1:12.600
10. Timo Glock, Toyota, 1:12.705
11. Nelson Piquet Jr, Renault, 1:12.973
12. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 1:12.976
13. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso, 1:13.060
14. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:13.133
15. Nico Hulkenberg, Williams, 1:13.306
16. Jenson Button, Honda, 1:13.689
17. Takashi Kogure, Honda, 1:15.703
Unofficial Thursday times from Valencia:
1. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 1:11.189
2. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 1:11.206
3. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:11.831
4. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 1:11.971
5. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:11.994
6. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 1:12.095
7. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 1:12.350
8. Sebastian Vettel, Toro Rosso, 1:12.526
9. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 1:12.600
10. Timo Glock, Toyota, 1:12.705
11. Nelson Piquet Jr, Renault, 1:12.973
12. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 1:12.976
13. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso, 1:13.060
14. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:13.133
15. Nico Hulkenberg, Williams, 1:13.306
16. Jenson Button, Honda, 1:13.689
17. Takashi Kogure, Honda, 1:15.703
If anyone else wants to watch future Valencia testing, here's a live webcam shot for reference:
http://webcam.comunitatvalenciana.com/webcamvalencia-cheste.htm?id_camara=22
And some good vid of the Honda F1 Racing factory and '07 season obituary/review at: http://www.hondaracingf1.com/
The good news w/ the intro of the RA108 is that relatively few aero bits were introduced and that they test day was compromised of system and reliability checks. It did 198 laps reliabily so w/o that out of the way, and the official car launch tomorrow and new aero coming out w/i the next few weeks, things may be better than previously guessed.
http://webcam.comunitatvalenciana.com/webcamvalencia-cheste.htm?id_camara=22
And some good vid of the Honda F1 Racing factory and '07 season obituary/review at: http://www.hondaracingf1.com/
The good news w/ the intro of the RA108 is that relatively few aero bits were introduced and that they test day was compromised of system and reliability checks. It did 198 laps reliabily so w/o that out of the way, and the official car launch tomorrow and new aero coming out w/i the next few weeks, things may be better than previously guessed.
MUCH Better. I can get used to that design. Thanks Ponyboy for keeping us updated with such diligence. My F1 fix is only a thread click away thanks to you.
Re: Are we having (Honda) fun yet?
Those heretics at FakeFerrarri News just won't let up.
Those heretics at FakeFerrarri News just won't let up.
Those bastards !!
Re: Are we having (Honda) fun yet?
LOL! You gotta admit, it's pretty damn funny!
PS- I love the new paint scheme. But I guess I'm comparing it to the old.
LOL! You gotta admit, it's pretty damn funny!
PS- I love the new paint scheme. But I guess I'm comparing it to the old.
Concerning the night race I just read, but now cannot find the link, that practice and qualifying will be done at night also. Malaysia is also investigating making their '09 GP a night race.
I wish they would settle on one broadcaster! I got all screwed up last year with Speed covering some and CBS (?) doing others. Since they were listed under different titles I didn't know what to program my Tivo to record half the time.
And this is interesting news about the Barcelona testing results. I have to say that I'm a little surprised to see Honda at the bottom of the timing list again. I thought Honda was using a new engine/chassis? Please don't tell me it's going to be another one of those years.
And this is interesting news about the Barcelona testing results. I have to say that I'm a little surprised to see Honda at the bottom of the timing list again.
I thought Honda was using a new engine/chassis? Please don't tell me it's going to be another one of those years.
Last edited:
Re: D & G starting early ??
Lest we forget, it took Ross 2 years to turn Ferrari around. And that was with Shumi and after they had gone thru the same drill to win the championship at Bennetton. Let's give him some time to work.
Well Ken, I was going to make a smart ass remark about popping over to the Honda Faithful and have some New Era koolaid with them but even they are gnashing their teeth already. :redface:
Lest we forget, it took Ross 2 years to turn Ferrari around. And that was with Shumi and after they had gone thru the same drill to win the championship at Bennetton. Let's give him some time to work.
Last edited:
Tech Analysis: Honda RA108
Little remains to be said about Honda's diabolical season in 2007. So is the team's new RA108 capable of reversing the fortunes of Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello?
Honda formally unveiled their new car for 2008 at their factory earlier this week. After a torrid 2007 with few points-scoring results, the team have recruited and regrouped to attack the forthcoming seasons.
Meanwhile, the car's livery and the corporate sound bites were all marketing-led. A small tag line adorning the bargeboard perfectly summed up their technical approach for 2008 - 'Powering dreams one lap at a time'.
The team have taken a technical step backwards in order to go forwards. Progress will be slow, but they are moving in the right direction.
Introduction
Honda's recent history in F1 has followed a downward path since their success in 2004. After following an evolutionary route, the team tried a more radical approach in the car's design for 2007. The idea backfired, as a result of the inherent problems in the car's aerodynamics.
They ended the 2007 season in a dismal eighth place, and even that result was flattered by McLaren's exclusion from the constructors' championship.
Comments from the drivers during the season, and more recently from the new technical staff, pointed the finger at aerodynamics, and specifically the way the car produced its downforce.
Ross Brawn, the new team principal, admitted the car produced good downforce, but created it aggressively. This meant that the car would be producing great downforce figures in idealised situations, but as the car pitched and rolled around the corners on track the downforce would bleed away, resulting in unpredictable handling.
Button in particular commented that the car's behaviour under braking was poor, as the nose-down attitude the car adopted under braking destabilised the front wing's ability to create downforce at a more normal ride height.
Work to rectify the situation started during the 2007 season, and even before the first race of the season the car had been shorn of some of its idiosyncratic aero add-ons. Indeed, as the season progressed a lot of the bodywork treatments were further simplified.
But this work failed to bring the car's pace back, and then a late-season test introduced a fundamental change in aero philosophy.
These changes suggested the team had been heading in the wrong direction aerodynamically. That is not to say the team needed to adopt a specific wing shape or trendy add-ons, but that the aerodynamic goals the team was seeking in the wind tunnel were skewed from what was required.
To make the required changes, new personnel were brought on board. In the aero department, the loss of Willem Toet to BMW-Sauber was offset by the recruitment of Loic Bigois from Williams. Then, the role of chief designer was taken by Jorg Zander, who was recruited back to the team from BMW Sauber.
But the highest profile signing was Brawn, coming from Ferrari after a sabbatical in 2007. This last role has been the most important in the team's quest for some technical direction. Since the loss of Geoff Willis, the team have not had an archetypal technical head; an experienced senior F1 figure to organise the considerable technical resources Honda have provided to their F1 effort.
Ross Brawn's influence
Speaking at the launch, Brawn noted the lack of organisation within the team, and the methods he will adopt to rectify them.
"What we have is some very enthusiastic and committed people," he said. "I'm not sure there's been anyone pulling all of the technical elements together."
He added that the cohesion between the various departments is critical: "It's a Honda racing car, not a Honda engine, a Brackley chassis. We are all in the same boat; we all need to be rowing the same direction."
Historically, the more corporately-minded technical direction promoted the 'Honda Way' and split the F1 operation clearly into the engine and R&D department in Tochigi in Japan, and the chassis department and race operations being led from the UK.
"What struck me immediately was people were working together, but not together," Brawn said. "Nobody has sat around the table with the groups as a group, rather than two or three groups."
Having come from Ferrari, where the whole operation came under one roof, this was a culture shock and something he has moved to put right.
But Brawn will not try to replicate Ferrari's organisational style, nor its car's detail design. So the engine operation and R&D will remain in Tochigi, but operate more as a consolidated Honda F1 operation.
In directing the technical staff, Brawn is not aiming to design the car - he freely admits his knowledge in the detail of an F1 car is now outdated.
Instead, he will aim to direct the staff and set out their objectives. He drew an analogy to the approach he's taken in the aero department: "There's no point in me saying, run this wing or run that wing. It's me asking, what type of downforce do you want to create? What sort of handling car do you want to create? What's the best approach?"
It's this process that Brawn believes will lead the team to consistently be able to make the right decisions:
"(It's trying to) create the process for people to understand why they do these things, why should we do that? How do we arrive at that conclusion? How do we understand what's going on. That's what evolved in Ferrari."
He feels that without educating and empowering the technical team, any gains from his arrival will be short-lived. "It will take a bit of time," he said. "In the long term, that's what is going to create consistency in this group. Developing the organisation goes much further than that - if we don't, it will be a quick splutter."
Certainly Brawn's approach has created periods of high achievement at both of his previous teams, but only at Ferrari has his legacy remained to produce results after he had let go of the technical reigns.
How the 'Brawn way' will fit into the 'Honda way' will be critical to the success of the team in the longer term. At the moment it seems Brawn has carte blanche to organise the F1 operation to his own requirements, although he acknowledges that there will be need to be reasoned arguments on one solution or another as the relationship develops.
The RA108
With the lessons learnt from the RA107 and the new technical team slotting into place, the new car is starting from a very different base point.
The team have had to go back to the drawing board to define new targets for the car's aerodynamic performance. Rather than simply seeking peak downforce, they are following the growing trend in F1 in looking for a car that produces downforce in a wider rage of attitudes. This is the "new thinking behind the design" that CEO Nick Fry mentioned at the launch.
Brawn explained the philosophy in more detail. "It's stability; what we call 'usable downforce'," he said. "You're obviously looking at the downforce characteristics in grip-limited conditions, where the downforce is going to count. You're looking for a nice stable usable platform; obviously the old car didn't really have that."
To achieve this, the aero team have started from scratch. It's this search for 'usable downforce' that has led to the car's completely revised aerodynamics. For any team this is a major challenge; for Honda, with little in their existing aero set-up to carry over, it was like starting again. In many respects, the team have gone backwards to go forwards.
"There's an element of that, because when we started this programme we didn't have as much downforce as the old car," Brawn agreed. "To get to a stable platform, we had to take a step back in aerodynamic downforce. It took a while before the downforce numbers even equalled what we had last year, but in a way that was much more usable."
Thus, the car in its launch guise sported simplistic aero treatments. Going back to basics means the team are still seeking big gains, not yet at the fine level of optimisation other teams have achieved working on similar aero philosophies over several years.
Fry admitted every part of the car's aerodynamics will change before Melbourne, while the car in its initial shakedown format was simply a collection of disparate parts to get the car running while the new wings were prepared for subsequent tests.
Regardless of the detail, the changes to the car make it fundamentally different to the RA107. These differences lie mainly in the bargeboard format.
The way the airflow passes from the bargeboards to under the floor is probably more important than the more visual and keels or nose shapes. Honda's abandonment of the forward turning vane solution in favour of larger, rear-placed boards places them in line with the current thinking in F1.
Larger boards mounted nearer the front of the floor are less influenced by the ride height of the front suspension; this allows the floor to be more consistent, which is all-important in the search for 'usable downforce'.
Also, the layout of the car has been altered to address weight distribution issues and aid aerodynamics.
"It's little longer in the wheelbase," Brawn explained to autosport.com. "The sidepods are little further back, but the main thing is that it's got a lot slimmer chassis that gives a lot more potential around the bargeboards."
Both of these changes reflect recent Ferrari practice, with last year's wheelbase change and this year's waisted monocoque.
New details include the new front wing. A two-element wing was tried at the recent test after a triple-element wing was initially used. The wing itself is conventional, but the high-tipped nose cone is a move away from current F1 practice.
As already mentioned, the new bargeboards are formed of smaller forward boards and large rear boards; the boards are detailed with a serrated top edge and footplate. Currently the boards are devoid of the flicks and add-ons used by other teams, but these will surely come as the team learns to optimise the designs.
Behind the bargeboards the floor sports a full-length vertical splitter, which serves both to house ballast and to shape the airflow. The monocoque around the sidepod inlets is heavily sculpted and aids flow under the floor and around the sidepods undercuts.
Within the sidepods the radiators are now positioned face-up, venting through both louvers in the engine cover and a chimney - again, the current preferred position for many teams.
The chimney has the T-wing mounted directly to it and the exhaust outlet has moved backwards from its extreme forward position used last year to blow over the top of the gearbox.
Work on the sidepods has resulted in a very tight rear-end, the sidepods now dropping vertically from the tightly tucked-in exhausts.
Above the sidepods the engine cover is unusually tall - in a similar way to the 2006 BMW-Sauber, the spine is far taller than the regulations demand. While these tall tails do add lateral stability, the tall fin was dropped by BMW Sauber for 2007. Most team simply form a humped rather than a full-length fin.
Inside the aerodynamic bodywork, Honda has developed their gearbox to meet the dimensional and reliability demands of the new four-race gearbox rules. Brawn admitted this added weight to the unit, but testing on the team's gearbox dyno suggested that reliability shouldn't be an issue.
For the engine, the team have not been able to modify the internals due to the engine freeze, but they were able to develop new exhausts and airbox. Additionally, there has been work to integrate the SECU into the power train.
Previously, Honda developed their own electronics for the engine and chassis. The freedom this provided the team has now been lost. But the team do not feel they are unduly disadvantaged by the rule change.
Summary
Brawn probably summed up the new car perfectly as "an intelligent response" to the problems of last year. The car represents the first steps in the fight back to competitiveness, but the team will have a steep development curve to catch up to the other midfield teams from this simple starting point.
Their optimism is well-founded, but it has been correctly tempered with their caution that results will not be immediate, and that this is a long-term plan for Honda.
Little remains to be said about Honda's diabolical season in 2007. So is the team's new RA108 capable of reversing the fortunes of Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello?
Honda formally unveiled their new car for 2008 at their factory earlier this week. After a torrid 2007 with few points-scoring results, the team have recruited and regrouped to attack the forthcoming seasons.
Meanwhile, the car's livery and the corporate sound bites were all marketing-led. A small tag line adorning the bargeboard perfectly summed up their technical approach for 2008 - 'Powering dreams one lap at a time'.
The team have taken a technical step backwards in order to go forwards. Progress will be slow, but they are moving in the right direction.
Introduction
Honda's recent history in F1 has followed a downward path since their success in 2004. After following an evolutionary route, the team tried a more radical approach in the car's design for 2007. The idea backfired, as a result of the inherent problems in the car's aerodynamics.
They ended the 2007 season in a dismal eighth place, and even that result was flattered by McLaren's exclusion from the constructors' championship.
Comments from the drivers during the season, and more recently from the new technical staff, pointed the finger at aerodynamics, and specifically the way the car produced its downforce.
Ross Brawn, the new team principal, admitted the car produced good downforce, but created it aggressively. This meant that the car would be producing great downforce figures in idealised situations, but as the car pitched and rolled around the corners on track the downforce would bleed away, resulting in unpredictable handling.
Button in particular commented that the car's behaviour under braking was poor, as the nose-down attitude the car adopted under braking destabilised the front wing's ability to create downforce at a more normal ride height.
Work to rectify the situation started during the 2007 season, and even before the first race of the season the car had been shorn of some of its idiosyncratic aero add-ons. Indeed, as the season progressed a lot of the bodywork treatments were further simplified.
But this work failed to bring the car's pace back, and then a late-season test introduced a fundamental change in aero philosophy.
These changes suggested the team had been heading in the wrong direction aerodynamically. That is not to say the team needed to adopt a specific wing shape or trendy add-ons, but that the aerodynamic goals the team was seeking in the wind tunnel were skewed from what was required.
To make the required changes, new personnel were brought on board. In the aero department, the loss of Willem Toet to BMW-Sauber was offset by the recruitment of Loic Bigois from Williams. Then, the role of chief designer was taken by Jorg Zander, who was recruited back to the team from BMW Sauber.
But the highest profile signing was Brawn, coming from Ferrari after a sabbatical in 2007. This last role has been the most important in the team's quest for some technical direction. Since the loss of Geoff Willis, the team have not had an archetypal technical head; an experienced senior F1 figure to organise the considerable technical resources Honda have provided to their F1 effort.
Ross Brawn's influence
Speaking at the launch, Brawn noted the lack of organisation within the team, and the methods he will adopt to rectify them.
"What we have is some very enthusiastic and committed people," he said. "I'm not sure there's been anyone pulling all of the technical elements together."
He added that the cohesion between the various departments is critical: "It's a Honda racing car, not a Honda engine, a Brackley chassis. We are all in the same boat; we all need to be rowing the same direction."
Historically, the more corporately-minded technical direction promoted the 'Honda Way' and split the F1 operation clearly into the engine and R&D department in Tochigi in Japan, and the chassis department and race operations being led from the UK.
"What struck me immediately was people were working together, but not together," Brawn said. "Nobody has sat around the table with the groups as a group, rather than two or three groups."
Having come from Ferrari, where the whole operation came under one roof, this was a culture shock and something he has moved to put right.
But Brawn will not try to replicate Ferrari's organisational style, nor its car's detail design. So the engine operation and R&D will remain in Tochigi, but operate more as a consolidated Honda F1 operation.
In directing the technical staff, Brawn is not aiming to design the car - he freely admits his knowledge in the detail of an F1 car is now outdated.
Instead, he will aim to direct the staff and set out their objectives. He drew an analogy to the approach he's taken in the aero department: "There's no point in me saying, run this wing or run that wing. It's me asking, what type of downforce do you want to create? What sort of handling car do you want to create? What's the best approach?"
It's this process that Brawn believes will lead the team to consistently be able to make the right decisions:
"(It's trying to) create the process for people to understand why they do these things, why should we do that? How do we arrive at that conclusion? How do we understand what's going on. That's what evolved in Ferrari."
He feels that without educating and empowering the technical team, any gains from his arrival will be short-lived. "It will take a bit of time," he said. "In the long term, that's what is going to create consistency in this group. Developing the organisation goes much further than that - if we don't, it will be a quick splutter."
Certainly Brawn's approach has created periods of high achievement at both of his previous teams, but only at Ferrari has his legacy remained to produce results after he had let go of the technical reigns.
How the 'Brawn way' will fit into the 'Honda way' will be critical to the success of the team in the longer term. At the moment it seems Brawn has carte blanche to organise the F1 operation to his own requirements, although he acknowledges that there will be need to be reasoned arguments on one solution or another as the relationship develops.
The RA108
With the lessons learnt from the RA107 and the new technical team slotting into place, the new car is starting from a very different base point.
The team have had to go back to the drawing board to define new targets for the car's aerodynamic performance. Rather than simply seeking peak downforce, they are following the growing trend in F1 in looking for a car that produces downforce in a wider rage of attitudes. This is the "new thinking behind the design" that CEO Nick Fry mentioned at the launch.
Brawn explained the philosophy in more detail. "It's stability; what we call 'usable downforce'," he said. "You're obviously looking at the downforce characteristics in grip-limited conditions, where the downforce is going to count. You're looking for a nice stable usable platform; obviously the old car didn't really have that."
To achieve this, the aero team have started from scratch. It's this search for 'usable downforce' that has led to the car's completely revised aerodynamics. For any team this is a major challenge; for Honda, with little in their existing aero set-up to carry over, it was like starting again. In many respects, the team have gone backwards to go forwards.
"There's an element of that, because when we started this programme we didn't have as much downforce as the old car," Brawn agreed. "To get to a stable platform, we had to take a step back in aerodynamic downforce. It took a while before the downforce numbers even equalled what we had last year, but in a way that was much more usable."
Thus, the car in its launch guise sported simplistic aero treatments. Going back to basics means the team are still seeking big gains, not yet at the fine level of optimisation other teams have achieved working on similar aero philosophies over several years.
Fry admitted every part of the car's aerodynamics will change before Melbourne, while the car in its initial shakedown format was simply a collection of disparate parts to get the car running while the new wings were prepared for subsequent tests.
Regardless of the detail, the changes to the car make it fundamentally different to the RA107. These differences lie mainly in the bargeboard format.
The way the airflow passes from the bargeboards to under the floor is probably more important than the more visual and keels or nose shapes. Honda's abandonment of the forward turning vane solution in favour of larger, rear-placed boards places them in line with the current thinking in F1.
Larger boards mounted nearer the front of the floor are less influenced by the ride height of the front suspension; this allows the floor to be more consistent, which is all-important in the search for 'usable downforce'.
Also, the layout of the car has been altered to address weight distribution issues and aid aerodynamics.
"It's little longer in the wheelbase," Brawn explained to autosport.com. "The sidepods are little further back, but the main thing is that it's got a lot slimmer chassis that gives a lot more potential around the bargeboards."
Both of these changes reflect recent Ferrari practice, with last year's wheelbase change and this year's waisted monocoque.
New details include the new front wing. A two-element wing was tried at the recent test after a triple-element wing was initially used. The wing itself is conventional, but the high-tipped nose cone is a move away from current F1 practice.
As already mentioned, the new bargeboards are formed of smaller forward boards and large rear boards; the boards are detailed with a serrated top edge and footplate. Currently the boards are devoid of the flicks and add-ons used by other teams, but these will surely come as the team learns to optimise the designs.
Behind the bargeboards the floor sports a full-length vertical splitter, which serves both to house ballast and to shape the airflow. The monocoque around the sidepod inlets is heavily sculpted and aids flow under the floor and around the sidepods undercuts.
Within the sidepods the radiators are now positioned face-up, venting through both louvers in the engine cover and a chimney - again, the current preferred position for many teams.
The chimney has the T-wing mounted directly to it and the exhaust outlet has moved backwards from its extreme forward position used last year to blow over the top of the gearbox.
Work on the sidepods has resulted in a very tight rear-end, the sidepods now dropping vertically from the tightly tucked-in exhausts.
Above the sidepods the engine cover is unusually tall - in a similar way to the 2006 BMW-Sauber, the spine is far taller than the regulations demand. While these tall tails do add lateral stability, the tall fin was dropped by BMW Sauber for 2007. Most team simply form a humped rather than a full-length fin.
Inside the aerodynamic bodywork, Honda has developed their gearbox to meet the dimensional and reliability demands of the new four-race gearbox rules. Brawn admitted this added weight to the unit, but testing on the team's gearbox dyno suggested that reliability shouldn't be an issue.
For the engine, the team have not been able to modify the internals due to the engine freeze, but they were able to develop new exhausts and airbox. Additionally, there has been work to integrate the SECU into the power train.
Previously, Honda developed their own electronics for the engine and chassis. The freedom this provided the team has now been lost. But the team do not feel they are unduly disadvantaged by the rule change.
Summary
Brawn probably summed up the new car perfectly as "an intelligent response" to the problems of last year. The car represents the first steps in the fight back to competitiveness, but the team will have a steep development curve to catch up to the other midfield teams from this simple starting point.
Their optimism is well-founded, but it has been correctly tempered with their caution that results will not be immediate, and that this is a long-term plan for Honda.
Re: I like Ross's stated approach
Ross has clearly identified and will fill Honda's most glaring need; organization. (God help Honda if they don't totally back and kowtow to his evey edict and whisper.) But how long until he backfills the other needs? I'm still chuckling that Honda sent a motorcycle guy to oversee F-1 car development.
On another note, anyone enjoy a little pulp fiction now and then?
Ross has clearly identified and will fill Honda's most glaring need; organization. (God help Honda if they don't totally back and kowtow to his evey edict and whisper.) But how long until he backfills the other needs? I'm still chuckling that Honda sent a motorcycle guy to oversee F-1 car development.
On another note, anyone enjoy a little pulp fiction now and then?
Testing times from Jerez earlier today:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.102 89
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.287 88
3. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.539 91
4. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:19.601 93
5. Piquet Renault (B) 1:19.660 120
6. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.958 94
7. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.013 113
8. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.029 125
9. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.105 53
10. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.176 111
11. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.418 82
12. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:21.133 71
13. di Grassi Renault (B) 1:21.200 92
14. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:21.400 90
15. Liuzzi Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:21.553 103
16. Wurz Honda (B) 1:21.950 86
Look at Bourdais...only .3 off of Webber's time. Not too bad at all.
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.102 89
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.287 88
3. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.539 91
4. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:19.601 93
5. Piquet Renault (B) 1:19.660 120
6. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.958 94
7. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.013 113
8. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.029 125
9. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.105 53
10. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.176 111
11. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.418 82
12. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:21.133 71
13. di Grassi Renault (B) 1:21.200 92
14. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:21.400 90
15. Liuzzi Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:21.553 103
16. Wurz Honda (B) 1:21.950 86
Look at Bourdais...only .3 off of Webber's time. Not too bad at all.
Last edited:
Re: Be still........let Ross do his work
And how about RB leading the Honda's? Only .7 off rookie Bourdais. :biggrin: Oh well, not to get impatient, it's not 2009 yet.
Today's testing times at Jerez...note the Honda vs. SA times.
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:17.974 96
2. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:18.485 107
3. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:19.117 90
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.429 83
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.535 129
6. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:19.688 53
7. Piquet Renault (B) 1:19.817 134
8. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:19.848 101
9. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.934 116
10. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:19.980 107
11. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:20.669 89
12. Button Honda (B) 1:20.988 121
13. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:21.010 103
14. Hulkenberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.116 71
15. di Grassi Renault (B) 1:21.286 73
16. Wurz Honda (B) 1:21.605 103
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:17.974 96
2. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:18.485 107
3. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:19.117 90
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.429 83
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.535 129
6. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:19.688 53
7. Piquet Renault (B) 1:19.817 134
8. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:19.848 101
9. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.934 116
10. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:19.980 107
11. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:20.669 89
12. Button Honda (B) 1:20.988 121
13. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:21.010 103
14. Hulkenberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.116 71
15. di Grassi Renault (B) 1:21.286 73
16. Wurz Honda (B) 1:21.605 103
Yikes 3 seconds off pace!! Looks like another crappy season to come, unless they are holding back for some reason. At least they weren't last or didnt blow up during the runs.
Looks like another crappy season to come, unless they are holding back for some reason. At least they weren't last or didnt blow up during the runs.Yeah, not the greatest times but at least they're reliable and running race fuel loads.
Honda F1 - Thursday report
The Honda Racing F1 Team continued its intensive pre-season testing programme in Spain this week with the track activity moving to Jerez. Race drivers Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello, along with Test and Reserve Driver Alex Wurz, were in action this week as the evaluation and development of the new RA108 race car continued.
The test programme began on Tuesday with Rubens and Alex at the wheel. Rubens focused on general set-up evaluation alongside race start work, covering 75 laps. On his second full test day in the new car, Alex worked through a driveability programme completing 86 laps.
Rubens continued his running on Wednesday with chassis set-up work and a continuation of the race start programme covering 58 laps. Jenson joined the team to take over the second RA108 and ran through a series of aero evaluations alongside further set-up work over 85 laps.
The final day of the test on Thursday saw Alex back in the car alongside Jenson. Both drivers completed full race distance simulations with live pit stops in the morning session, before continuing set-up work in the afternoon. Alex completed 103 laps with Jenson totalling 121 laps.
Jenson Button: "We have made good progress this week in understanding the car, addressing the issues that we experienced at the last test and getting the car balanced for long runs. There is a great deal of work to do over the two remaining tests before we head to Melbourne, but I am now happier in the car and have more confidence to push it to the limit."
Rubens Barrichello: "We made some good steps with the driveability this week which have given me more confidence getting on the power. The car balance has improved with progress on the ride and suspension, and I'm feeling comfortable in the car and happier with my driving position. We have some hard work ahead of us but I am looking forward to the new updates which will specifically target the areas that we have been working on over the last couple of tests."
Alex Wurz: "We spent the test this week working on reliability runs and engine driveability and I am very pleased that we have found some improvements. We also completed a full race simulation today which went very well."
Steve Clark, Head of Race & Test Engineering: "After this week's test in Jerez, we now have a full understanding of the issues which have been affecting the handling of the car. The new components to address these issues will be ready in time for our next test in Barcelona. With this in mind, the focus this week was to sign off the race distance reliability of the car with Jenson and Alex completing full race distances today. We also made steady progress with improving the engine driveability and chassis controls which will give us a good starting point for the next test when we will be in a position to implement the new updates."
Honda F1 - Thursday report
The Honda Racing F1 Team continued its intensive pre-season testing programme in Spain this week with the track activity moving to Jerez. Race drivers Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello, along with Test and Reserve Driver Alex Wurz, were in action this week as the evaluation and development of the new RA108 race car continued.
The test programme began on Tuesday with Rubens and Alex at the wheel. Rubens focused on general set-up evaluation alongside race start work, covering 75 laps. On his second full test day in the new car, Alex worked through a driveability programme completing 86 laps.
Rubens continued his running on Wednesday with chassis set-up work and a continuation of the race start programme covering 58 laps. Jenson joined the team to take over the second RA108 and ran through a series of aero evaluations alongside further set-up work over 85 laps.
The final day of the test on Thursday saw Alex back in the car alongside Jenson. Both drivers completed full race distance simulations with live pit stops in the morning session, before continuing set-up work in the afternoon. Alex completed 103 laps with Jenson totalling 121 laps.
Jenson Button: "We have made good progress this week in understanding the car, addressing the issues that we experienced at the last test and getting the car balanced for long runs. There is a great deal of work to do over the two remaining tests before we head to Melbourne, but I am now happier in the car and have more confidence to push it to the limit."
Rubens Barrichello: "We made some good steps with the driveability this week which have given me more confidence getting on the power. The car balance has improved with progress on the ride and suspension, and I'm feeling comfortable in the car and happier with my driving position. We have some hard work ahead of us but I am looking forward to the new updates which will specifically target the areas that we have been working on over the last couple of tests."
Alex Wurz: "We spent the test this week working on reliability runs and engine driveability and I am very pleased that we have found some improvements. We also completed a full race simulation today which went very well."
Steve Clark, Head of Race & Test Engineering: "After this week's test in Jerez, we now have a full understanding of the issues which have been affecting the handling of the car. The new components to address these issues will be ready in time for our next test in Barcelona. With this in mind, the focus this week was to sign off the race distance reliability of the car with Jenson and Alex completing full race distances today. We also made steady progress with improving the engine driveability and chassis controls which will give us a good starting point for the next test when we will be in a position to implement the new updates."
From an employee of an F1 team...interesting stuff.
"Honda has discovered a bug in the software of the MECU. When three buttons on the steering wheel are pushed in a certain sequence the mapping of the MECU is altered to a very aggresive mode which would make up for the ban of launch control and thus allowes very fast starts to be made. Whether or not McLaren knows about this (not unlikely) and whether there are more of these bugs is unknown. The FIA is said to start an investigation. Trulli seems to have been right.
Meanwhile Ferrari, like the others teams continue to collect data about the MECU to 'personalize' the system. They use two parallel systems: the MECU and the Magneti Marelli (that's why they're still a supplier/sponsor) they've had till last year. Using both systems allowes the teams to make comparisons and to optimalize the standard unit (of which the final version should be ready at the beginning of March) to the personal demands.
MES would be earning some € 1.900.000 for the assistance they give during the 2008 championship btw."
And good video of today's Jerez testing:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=oyyS7PAn0mM
"Honda has discovered a bug in the software of the MECU. When three buttons on the steering wheel are pushed in a certain sequence the mapping of the MECU is altered to a very aggresive mode which would make up for the ban of launch control and thus allowes very fast starts to be made. Whether or not McLaren knows about this (not unlikely) and whether there are more of these bugs is unknown. The FIA is said to start an investigation. Trulli seems to have been right.
Meanwhile Ferrari, like the others teams continue to collect data about the MECU to 'personalize' the system. They use two parallel systems: the MECU and the Magneti Marelli (that's why they're still a supplier/sponsor) they've had till last year. Using both systems allowes the teams to make comparisons and to optimalize the standard unit (of which the final version should be ready at the beginning of March) to the personal demands.
MES would be earning some € 1.900.000 for the assistance they give during the 2008 championship btw."
And good video of today's Jerez testing:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=oyyS7PAn0mM
Hope I'm not the only one in this thread. After years and years of using Alcon, looks like Honda switched brake suppliers to Brembo:
http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Racing-Brakes/
I wonder if this is a Brawn inspired change.
After years and years of using Alcon, looks like Honda switched brake suppliers to Brembo:http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Racing-Brakes/
I wonder if this is a Brawn inspired change.
- Joined
- 27 September 2007
- Messages
- 264
I didn't realize that it's less than a month to the first GP of 2008
This should be a very exciting season and I'm looking forward to it very, very much.
This should be a very exciting season and I'm looking forward to it very, very much.
