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Graham Rahal Test Drive
- Thread starter Superfluous
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Regarding the NSX's value, it depends on how you look at it and if you tend to be a more sophisticated buyer/enthusiast. If you are evaluating it based on $ per HP or 0-60 times/track times (bang for the buck) then the NSX does not appear to be a great value (at least when compared to the Z06). However if you are evaluating the car based on how it accomplishes these numbers then the car appears to be an outstanding value (even including the Z06) . For example, the traction, the torque fill, the ease, the dramatic variety of personalities, the ergonomics, the efficiency, the safety, and the usability/practicality uniquely come together to provide a New Sports (car) eXperience. It really is history repeating itself, 25 years later. And like the original, its too sublime for the average bloke.:biggrin:
I do find it interesting that the press continues to compare it to the Huracan, 488 GTB, and R8 V10+ which cost between $20K and $100K more when similarly equipped. So from that standpoint it is a steal.
And I have not seen anyone in the press compare it to either the Z06 Corvette nor the GT-R. So, for the most part, it seems they get it.
I do find it interesting that the press continues to compare it to the Huracan, 488 GTB, and R8 V10+ which cost between $20K and $100K more when similarly equipped. So from that standpoint it is a steal.
And I have not seen anyone in the press compare it to either the Z06 Corvette nor the GT-R. So, for the most part, it seems they get it.
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fastaussie
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which is?
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personally, i much prefer the big "H" on the front of the car over the Acura branding. at least to those in the know, the Honda name does have prestige and pedigree in Formula 1 and motorcycle Grand Prix racing. obviously not to the same extent at the Italians, or the Germans in sportscar and prototype racing also. it's just not as well known to the non-racing watching public.
i can't see it being a hindrance to the car's ultimate sales success however...
p.s. it's also kind of cool to have something that isn't totally mainstream to all.
3/22/16 Autotrader 1994 993 Porsche:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...rId=0&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1994&Log=0
Always liked the Honda "H" front badge too:
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fastaussie
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holllly sheeeeeeeeet!
i knew those cars were commanding some money, but wow!
p.s. yep, the car looks so much better with a "H" on it...
i knew those cars were commanding some money, but wow!
p.s. yep, the car looks so much better with a "H" on it...
FWIW, I'm plugging in 42.5% for five year residual value into my personal car budgeting tool. If I'm guessing too high, my lease provider (Right Pocket) will take a write-off and make my bank account (Left Pocket) happy. So I'm hedged.
I don't want the "best" car, I want the "best" stable (judged over time). I had an early GT-R and loved it (despite it being ugly and that my wife refused to drive it), but buying ANOTHER one seems silly for simple reasons of diversity/variety. I've held on to my 997.1TT because it feels special, but am not tempted by the 991. My C7Z06 was my first Vette and it is a great $$ value, but that's not why I bought it and I'm not sure if I'll get the next one.
My point is that, to be a "successful" car in this price range, it is dumb to seek to be the best on all dimensions (hard to do and too expensive). You need to be holistically excellent for sure but, most importantly, need an element of rarity and uniqueness (in looks, performance, technology or whatever). The question is: does the NSX deserve a spot in the stables of people who already own (or have owned) other comparable cars.
We're not picking our spouses here folks. Promiscuity=winning.
I don't want the "best" car, I want the "best" stable (judged over time). I had an early GT-R and loved it (despite it being ugly and that my wife refused to drive it), but buying ANOTHER one seems silly for simple reasons of diversity/variety. I've held on to my 997.1TT because it feels special, but am not tempted by the 991. My C7Z06 was my first Vette and it is a great $$ value, but that's not why I bought it and I'm not sure if I'll get the next one.
My point is that, to be a "successful" car in this price range, it is dumb to seek to be the best on all dimensions (hard to do and too expensive). You need to be holistically excellent for sure but, most importantly, need an element of rarity and uniqueness (in looks, performance, technology or whatever). The question is: does the NSX deserve a spot in the stables of people who already own (or have owned) other comparable cars.
We're not picking our spouses here folks. Promiscuity=winning.
This is very true.
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I'm astonished by those 911 Turbo prices! Makes me wonder how much the NA1-NA2 would be now if Honda decided to go turbo back then...
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Chris, speaking of uniqueness and rarity, if a P1, LaFerrari, or 918 isn't in your garage, then surely an NSX deserves a spot for its powertrain uniqueness, right?
Those '94 prices are odd. They appear to be for 964 models, yet I thought the 993 was introduced in '93 and '94. They're for limited edition 964 models, in fact - the Speedster and RS. Check '95 model prices - they typically range from $45k to $65k which is about right for the market. A reasonable price for a '95 NSX seems to be about $50k, which is pretty similar. If you really want some fun, check the prices of '99 911s. They're almost all under $30k. The Porsche name certainly didn't help any there.
I confirmed my order and paid 10% deposit yesterday, so I agree. Sadly, no $1m cars expected in my garage anytime soon.
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^ This
This was my understanding. I'm curious as to the logic behind the extreme price difference. The rarity is still not as "rare" as say most other "exotics" either.
But I suppose a real NSX-R might fetch $150K today tho...
fastaussie
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i don't think there would be a direct correlation. it's not as simple as bolting on a turbo charger, certain models are more sought after than others...
No one ever liked the "fried egg" headlights on the 996, and the 2WD models (narrow body) looked too much like the Boxster.
I think you could make a decent business out of buying up 996 cars and swapping out for a 997 front end conversion.
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There is not a direct correlation. However lack of horsepower/performance is the large factor holding back the first gen NSX. If it came out with 400 hp from the factory like the 911 turbos of that era, it would have commanded a higher premium.
fastaussie
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as i've said before, it should've had a 4.0 litre V8 in the back with 400 horsepower...
When my 91 came out it didn't need any more power.
It was competitive with almost everything on the road at the time and offered superior value.
It fell behind by the mid-nineties when Honda didn't keep up development and the competitors upped their game.
Then it could have used a power boost to keep the power to weight ratio competitive.
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We are talking about the past like it would change somehow, :sigh: 
I'm just saying imagine if the first gen had more horsepower from factory. A 270 hp or 290 hp V6 supercar can command $40K in upwards of $80k today 2016, based on condition. Imagine if it had ~400 hp either by turbo(s) or 2 extra cylinders. It would command a much higher premium if the reliability, rareness, etc. factors were the same. I still find amazing V6 Honda can retain such value.
I'm just saying imagine if the first gen had more horsepower from factory. A 270 hp or 290 hp V6 supercar can command $40K in upwards of $80k today 2016, based on condition. Imagine if it had ~400 hp either by turbo(s) or 2 extra cylinders. It would command a much higher premium if the reliability, rareness, etc. factors were the same. I still find amazing V6 Honda can retain such value.
fastaussie
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it would still suffer some of the same (perceived) setbacks regardless. not being exotic enough, not being exciting enough. so it may not have made any difference, but i sure would love my 2002 even more if they had pumped it up a bit...
Graham did 1:21.9 at Thermal in an NSX basically tying the track focused ACR Viper's 1:21.86 (albeit different days different drivers). The ACR Viper beat the Z06 Corvette at Laguna Seca by 2.59 seconds (same day, Randy Probst driving). The $400K, track focused 675LT McLaren only beat the Z06 at Big Willow by .71 seconds (different days but both with Randy Probst driving). I know this is not a perfect comparison but if the NSX is comparable to the ACR, then it seems to indicate that the NSX very likely will beat the Z06 Corvette and even the track-focused 675LT McLaren - and probably by a significant amount if its in the ACR's realm.
So when Ted Claus says that the NSX posted the fastest times they ever encountered through the turns during testing, it seems he wasn't exaggerating.
This is shaping up to be a budget 918.
So when Ted Claus says that the NSX posted the fastest times they ever encountered through the turns during testing, it seems he wasn't exaggerating.
This is shaping up to be a budget 918.
I hope you're right, but your chain of reasoning on the Z06 is a bit off. That specific car on that specific day was having issues, so much so that the magazine DQ'ed the car from the competition. No one thinks that particular session was representative of the car. I would look at Lightning Laps for a different view of how various cars line up. This doesn't have the new ACR (it would surely be at or above the Z06).
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...results-historical-lap-times-and-more-feature
Anyway, I suspect the NSX will be in the "Top Ten" fastest production cars and perhaps "Top Five under $1M"
The fact that we're having this conversation means the NSX will easily be "fast enough" to be a credible track car-- which is awesome for any car intended mainly to be an "everyday" car.
The Z06 has been down on power so many times during various testing that I can't blame you for thinking that this was one of them. However, in this test, it was running great. They even made a point of saying that it seems to be at full power in contrast to their experience during "Best Driver's Car".
Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qWYJQClIyY
I fully expect the Viper ACR to significantly outpace the Z06 on the upcoming Car and Driver Lightning Lap and the NSX should be right there too. That means the NSX should be faster than the 650S and Huracan too.
Unreal.
Would be awesome, but I am going to keep my expectations lower than that to avoid disappointment.
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