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Hows this for a Great Fitting Adapter!!

D'Ecosse said:
Easier maybe ..... Too bad the Hi F response & imaging will suck with the tweeters down there.

Ken, are you trying to slam my product? I have left your sub design alone, AFTER your unneeded reply. Now, you are going after my speaker adapters.
The imaging is perfect. What is the difference from this to a coaxial speaker???????????

See your own quote in other thread:
Start quote:
If tweeter mounting is a concern, then there are now many "convertible" series of speakers, which are true components but mount co-axially.
Among these are CDT and MBQuart and there are others.
Co-ax used to be a dirty word - you can still mount co-axially without having to go cheap & ineffective. End quote.

Or did you forget?


Sometimes we think we know it all, some things are learned by experimenting.

I placed the tweeter in 4 different locations. The sound where it is at was perfect! Also, do not have to cut the door panel, which leads for a cleaner more stock looking install!
 
That quote is taken completely out of context - I was responding specifically to a suggestion to use co-ax speakers & I recommended convertible components as a better alternative as a better choice (than co-ax's) if the installer had a desire to not cut the door panels - hardly the same thing as saying I endorse this.
Where did I make any slam of your products???? (either your speaker plates or your sub box?)
For the record, I have said nothing negative anywhere about your products - I made a comment on the tweeter placement, which is not ideal & I stand by that.
 
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D'Ecosse said:
Easier maybe ..... Too bad the Hi F response & imaging will suck with the tweeters down there.
What does placement have to do with frequency response? Placement has nothing to do with tonality. What you smokin?!?

And imaging in the NSX is difficult to get right anyways. I have yet to hear one that is as good as a decent car set up with good kick panels. There is no room for kick panels in the NSX. And for people like me that won't cut into the door panels or modify them with pods etc, this type of speaker baffle is really the only thing that makes sense in an NSX. Myself, I just went with some braxials and it turned out pretty decent IMO. BTW, I made my own baffles, so I don't care which of you sells more either way.

I'll copy/paste what I said before when the idea of placing tweeters higher up or on the dash was raised (and now in reference to your statement of the low tweeter placement being the poor imaging culprit):

"Good imaging comes mostly from the location and direction of the MID driver. Keeping the mids in the stock locations will not produce great imaging regardless of where you place the tweeter. Like I said, imaging and soundstage information comes from the midrange frequencies. But from a staging and imaging perspective, you need to install the midrange as far away from the listening position as possible putting more effort on that rather than the tweeter placement. You want equal pathlengths, and putting them as far forward as possible makes the differences in pathlengths less.

If you're only goal is tonality (and NOT imaging), than speakers in stock locations is fine and really has no bearing. You can install speakers ALMOST anywhere and have great tonality.

If you're goal is good sound with limited imaging (and MUST use the factory speaker locations in the NSX - which will suck but there's not a whole lot of options), I'd put the mid in there with the tweeter as close as possible (mounted in the factory grill in the forward area), and aim the drivers door tweeter at the passengers left ear with the passengers side tweeter aimed at the drivers right ear to help with any left/right bias. However, using the stock door locations, I would not expect to ever achieve great imaging."

The real reason one will not achieve proper imaging with speaker baffles like this is simple. It still uses the stock speaker locations and THEY ARE NOT OPTIMAL. Not because the tweeter is placed too low...

If you really think placing the tweeter low hurts imaging, try listening to some of the cars that won their classes at IASCA World Finals. You'll mostly find kick panels with tweeters inches higher than the floor. That's about as low as you can get. And guess what, those cars all image GREAT.
 
D'Ecosse said:
That quote is taken completely out of context - I was responding specifically to a suggestion to use co-ax speakers & I recommended convertible components as a better alternative as a better choice (than co-ax's) if the installer had a desire to not cut the door panels - hardly the same thing as saying I endorse this.
Where did I make any slam of your products???? (either your speaker plates or your sub box?)
For the record, I have said nothing negative anywhere about your products - I made a comment on the tweeter placement, which is not ideal & I stand by that.

I did not say that my plates were designed to put the tweeter there. It just happens to work. The car I am working on, the owner does not want things all cut up IF avoidable. I would love to have an EASY way to put the tweeters higher. This car does not make that happen. There are not many places to install them. I am working on a placement design. It may follow in the near future. I have to see if it makes sence. But for now the low placement works great and much less hassel to do the install.

Business competition is good. There are always better products out there. If you remember, I was in contact with you before my sub and plates were developed. YOU stopped communicating with me. I could no longer wait, so I went to work with my 20+ years experience with mechanics.


I love the touch of your signature on my thread. :smile:
 
Deuce B said:
If you really think placing the tweeter low hurts imaging, try listening to some of the cars that won their classes at IASCA World Finals. You'll mostly find kick panels with tweeters inches higher than the floor. That's about as low as you can get. And guess what, those cars all image GREAT.
Agree with pretty much everything you said - I didn't say anything about the tweeters being low, did I? This problem is they are directed right into the side of the seat - if the drivers side is bad, the passenger side is horrendous in the illustrated location. Yes, again you are correct - I have yet to see a set of IASCA kicks aimed directly into the side of the seat. Yes, you get the absolute best imaging from a point source (co-ax actually) with equal path lengths from each source and footwell kicks not an option in the NSX (even if it was they would still be far from equal lengths)
Incidentally placing tweeter at the rear of the mid where they project into the seat is even worse than being at the front (in the NSX) & that is why you will lose tonality from that mounting in that speaker location.
 
The entire speaker grill is exposed and in front of the seat. Does the door panels speaker grill in your nsx face the seat? Try putting the seat as far back as it will go. Maybe that'll help. :)

There is really not much of a difference if you put the tweeter at the front or rear area of the speakers door panel opening. I bet if we set up 10 cars (5 with the tweeter in the forward position, 5 in the rear are behind the mid), you couldn't tell which ones were which with the speakers all behind the grills.

Tonality will be the same either way.

Probably the most intrusive thing in front of the speakers is your legs. And nobody is going to cut those off for better imaging are they? :)

As I see it, these baffles are basically the same thing as sold by D'Ecosse. If one works, they both work. Toss a coin to determine which ones you buy. Or if you have the time & talent, make your own.

And you said, "tweeters down there." As I read it, you were refering to the tweeters down low by the mid. Sorry if I misunderstood. Actually I kinda interpreted your whole reply as bashing a product similar to yours. I thought it was a tacky reply given the signature in your post. Can you imagine how things would get out of hand if MJ posted in threads in this forum by Chris@SOS in the same manner you did? Chris introducing a new part and MJ trying to point out it's downside, with a link to his similar product? Man, that'd get ugly. Thank goodness he doesn't go there.

BTW, for the people that buy the D'Ecosse/SOS baffles, where do you recommend they install the tweeters?
 
How about leaving an extra area of MDF in the lower front portion of the plate to give the buyer the option of either placing the tweeter on either side of the speaker? It seems as if there is just enough space for it. Just a thought...

And if anyone can custom make a kick panel for our cars I'll buy it!
 
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