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Is the Kelly Blue book behind the times?

MCM

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Or is it on target for the 91-94 cars?
Advertised prices seem much higher than the Blue book?
Wishful sellers? Or behind the times unrealistic Blue book?
Can someone in the know step in?
No I do not want to read FAQ. LOL LOL
:biggrin:
 
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Pricing guides are in the business of selling pricing guides. Check out what a 1995 NSX is worth in NADA and then compare that to Black Book. Almost a $10,000 difference. The reason there are many different guides is that different people use them for different purposes. Kelly Blue Book retail pricing, for example, tends to be high so sellers like to quote it when selling a car. NADA wholesale prices tend to be low, so dealers like to use it to lowball customers on their trade-in value. That is a basic explanation of pricing guides in general.

As they relate to the NSX (or any other specialty car), it should be noted right up front that generic pricing guides do not work well for determining true market value of very low production specialty cars. Most of them take a standard depreciation formula and apply it to every vehicle. But the fact is that just doesn't reflect the real market prices for specialty cars. The two most commonly noted are Edmunds (www.edmunds.com) and Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com). They use standard depreciation formulas and as a result their prices are way out of line with the true market prices for used NSXs.

NADA (www.nadaguides.com) sends a questionnaire to thousands of dealers every month. Then the dealers are supposed to write down what they have sold cars for. They could write anything down, and most dealers throw the form away - filling the form out doesn't make them any more money, so why do it? Dealers themselves rarely use NADA guides other than to lowball a trade-in value.

The Black Book (www.blackbookusa.com) is another story. Black Book, from the National Auto Research Division of Hearst Business Media Corporation, makes money from dealers paying them $500 a year membership. No outside interference to corrupt the numbers. They can't be manipulated like NADA. There are still two problems with using the Black Book to price and NSX.

1) The Black Book works strictly off auction values. NSXs at auction are, on average, in much worse condition than those for private sale, which results in lower prices. More importantly, since the NSX is a specialty vehicle, a dealer knows they are probably going to have a harder time moving it out of inventory. So they will only bid on it if they think there is a lot of profit left between their bid price and what they think they can sell it for. This also keeps auction prices down.

2) The number of NSXs moving through auction is too small to be a statistically relevant source of data, particularly for the later model year cars where perhaps only one or two a month go through auction nation-wide.


MCM said:
No I do not want to read FAQ. LOL LOL
:biggrin:

LOL LOL You just did! :biggrin: :biggrin: :wink:
 

MCM

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Nice text book answer.
Maybe what is really happening is depreciation
has ended on the early cars.
Is that mentioned anywhere?
Also, the Blue book seems spot on price wise
based on what I have seen for sale on the 1999-2005
cars. I realize its difficult to price "special" cars.
Sold this one last weekend. Didn't use the Kelly Blue book on that one either.
http://www.corvetteforum.net/classics/396_rat/
Its an old joke between a few friends of mine when asked what
I will pay for something. Standard answer is
"Will pay NADA" I think I even ran a want add for a bike once
stating "will pay NADA" LOL LOL
(Means "Nothing" in Spanish)
Thanks for the response.
But feed back from others appreciated.
 
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Text books are normally text books because they are accurate, which, by all accounts, is the case here. What other answers are you looking for ? Sounds to me like stave nailed it.

Like everything else, it's supply and demand. Problem is, as stated, the numbers of specialty vehicles being bought and sold is too small to be "statistically relevant".

You asked about the KBB and steve told you about it. You already seem to have your mind made up as to what the answers are so I'm not sure what you're looking to get here. :wink:
 

MCM

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I guess my question is:
Are the early cars starting to appreciate in value?
It looks as if nice examples very well may be.
As a NSX newbie buyer, I am just trying to soak up as much info
as possible. I don't have a problem paying a premium
for an excellent example. Just trying to get a good feel for the market.
What things are advertised for, as well as what things actually sell for.
Sorry if I am coming on a bit strong, just a motivated buyer trying to learn
everything all at once. My bad.
All info IS greatly appreciated.
 
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I'm kinda in the same boat as you it sounds like,
I probably won't be buying until next summer at the earliest.
I've been kinda looking at what it's going to cost to buy a 91-94 nsx
and simply put it seems to me that anything under $30k with under 100k miles
and good service records seems to be a fair price. I look a lot online at
used NSXs but I've never actually gone to check one out in person yet.
It also seems that most 91-94 NSXs that sell for high 20s to low 30s are maintained very well. What my ideal is right now is a 93 or 94 for about 30k.
And the only reason I would go 93 or 94 is because of the snap ring issue, but if it's fixed or if it's not an issue on a particular car then it really doesn't matter either. There's been a few conversations about early model nsx depreciation and appreciation that I've read and what it seems to sound like is that they have kind of leveled off and probably won't depreciate much more, it doesn't sound like they will increase in value either.
I don't know, that's just my experience so far. Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong because any info about these cars is helpful and interesting to me. :smile:
 
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MCM said:
I guess my question is:
Are the early cars starting to appreciate in value?
It looks as if nice examples very well may be.
As a NSX newbie buyer, I am just trying to soak up as much info
as possible. I don't have a problem paying a premium
for an excellent example. Just trying to get a good feel for the market.
What things are advertised for, as well as what things actually sell for.
Sorry if I am coming on a bit strong, just a motivated buyer trying to learn
everything all at once. My bad.
All info IS greatly appreciated.
I don't quite get why you don't want to read the FAQ or do a search. If you are trying to learn, why not start there? :confused:
 
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MCM said:
I guess my question is:
Are the early cars starting to appreciate in value?
It looks as if nice examples very well may be.
As a NSX newbie buyer, I am just trying to soak up as much info
as possible. I don't have a problem paying a premium
for an excellent example. Just trying to get a good feel for the market.
What things are advertised for, as well as what things actually sell for.
Sorry if I am coming on a bit strong, just a motivated buyer trying to learn
everything all at once. My bad.
All info IS greatly appreciated.

If you are asking if it is possible to buy a NSX today and if the future sell it for more than you paid, the answer is yes. I know this because I did it. I think good examples of the NSX will appreciate in value if they are kept in good condition. I also think few people know exactly how to keep a car in collector condition.
 

MCM

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Thanks for all the info.
Did not intend to stir anything up.
Going to look at a 91 tomorrow.
Just trying for a quick education.
Yes I have spent a few hours in the FAQ area.
It just seems funny to me, if someone is looking for info
they just get referred to the FAQ section.
That's fine most of the time, but there is nothing wrong
with interactive discussion with others.
Hence the term "Forum". :biggrin:
 
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steveny said:
As they relate to the NSX (or any other specialty car), it should be noted right up front that generic pricing guides do not work well for determining true market value of very low production specialty cars. Most of them take a standard depreciation formula and apply it to every vehicle. But the fact is that just doesn't reflect the real market prices for specialty cars. The two most commonly noted are Edmunds (www.edmunds.com) and Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com). They use standard depreciation formulas and as a result their prices are way out of line with the true market prices for used NSXs.

This is entirely accurate and virtually identical to what I say to people on this subject.

The examples are legion. Look at the value of an 1988 E28 M5 on KBB. Find me an excellent condition 97k mile M5 for $4925 RETAIL. I'll buy 100 of them.
 
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MCM said:
Are the early cars starting to appreciate in value?
No. Their values are stable, neither increasing nor decreasing to any discernible extent.

headshot99r6 said:
And the only reason I would go 93 or 94 is because of the snap ring issue, but if it's fixed or if it's not an issue on a particular car then it really doesn't matter either.
It doesn't affect 80 percent of the '91, and there are lots more '91 than any three other years combined.

Besides, on a snap ring car, you can have it fixed yourself for around $2000-2500.
 
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