Is the NSX the least expensive (running) exotic you can buy?

[Frank Oles]

I recently sold my NSX after 3.5 incredible years of ownership. One thing that I really enjoyed about the car was that it was an incredible passport to all different kinds of car shows:

• At classic car shows (muscle and rods), most people don't know what it is, but they are interested because of the looks, sounds.
• At Import car shows, the NSX always gets respect - it represents the pinnacle of Honda performance, and still looks and sounds wonderful.
• At Exotic car shows, you can USUALLY get in the VIP area. Like the Porsche 911, the NSX is kind of on the fringe, with incredible styling and sound, but a slightly underpowered V6.

Basically, an "exotic car" can show up to any car meet and be accepted.

Being on the other side of the fence now, I got to thinking... is the NSX the most affordable exotic car you can buy? Now, I am talking a RUNNING example, not a basket case. The Top Gear budget Italian Supercar episode comes to mind.

Now, what exactly qualifies as an exotic car is kind of a gray area. Is a Porsche 911 GT3 or Turbo - yes I think. A regular 911 - not so much.

Now, if you only had 25 grand to spend and you wanted "in" with the exotic crowd, what would you get?

The NSX is an obvious choice, but I'm wondering if a savvy car person could do "better". Granted, the car only has to make it to car shows and back - lets say 1K miles a year (the NSX would crush everything else as far as reliability).

Just to get the ball rolling...

Good Panteras are more in the 35K range now. Could you find a decent one for 25K? I don't know.

1970s era Porsche 930 Turbo?

Ferrari 308/328? (I think good examples of these are more in the 35-40 range).

Maserati Merak?

Lambo Jalpa?

I think there used to be more affordable exotic choices about 10 years ago. But now the 70s era cars are so old they are either a.) restored and more expensive OR b.) tired old drivers with questionable service histories. Even the Fiat Dino, the so-called "poor man's Ferrari" is a 40K car now.

So, is the NSX the least expensive exotic car you can buy? Or is there some other hidden exotic jem out there I am missing? NOTE: we are talking show cars, not daily drivers.

 

[prestonmay]

Lotus

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searc...awsp=false&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&systime=

 

[SWIFTVISION]

Well, I took mine to a classic car show over the weekend.

While it got more attension then all the other cars, I lost to a beat up 93 mustang with an intake and a 95 camero with painted white wheels and autozone fuzzy seat covers......

 

[Dtrigg]

Well, I took mine to a classic car show over the weekend.

While it got more attension then all the other cars, I lost to a beat up 93 mustang with an intake and a 95 camero with painted white wheels and autozone fuzzy seat covers......

LOL. That's funny.:biggrin:

 

[Frank Oles]

Yes, the Lotus Esprit was a glaring omission on my part. That will ALWAYS qualify as an exotic. I guess I've just read so many horror stories about maintaining those cars it was off my radar.

Does the Elise or Exige qualify as an exotic? I know Lotus' own advertising makes the claim of most affordable exotic (for the Exige), but I haven't seen enough of them at car shows to be sure. Seems like it is more geared for the track crowd than the exotic car show crowd.

 

[Paul91]

Good post. I've often thought of this too. Before I read your entire post, I was thinking Jalpa. I remember seeing one in the 80's and thinking it was the coolest car that I'd never seen before. They were junk, but certainly exotic nonetheless.

One Idea would be to pick up an early Esprit, a la James Bond style. I know that the Esprits........ALL ESPRITS, were absolute garbage. I wonder if you bought an mid to late 70s one for about 10k, fully restored it, and showed it. How much would that resto run you? I really have no idea and I know it depends on the example, but for $30k total, you could have a fun showcar. And if done right, you might even be able to incorporate some reliability into the damn thing:smile:


More: http://www.lotusespritturbo.com/

 

[VegasSpeed]

I have wondered the exact same thing. There really isn't a better car for the money these days. However, I might consider getting a Lotus Elise but that is relatively new these days.

 

[tosugrad]

I know that the Esprits........ALL ESPRITS, were absolute garbage.

I have to disagree. Many of the later 4 cylinder models (S4, S4S) were very reliable autos. Think 92-95.5 and you should be in good shape.

They DO require careful (and sometimes costly) maintenance.

 

[Lotus_Esprit]

All who post about the Esprit not being reliable should be ashame of themselves. Just because you hear horror stories, doesnt mean its true. If you haven't owned one then the comment and statements you wrote should be voided.

I have have been following lotus for a long time now, you have to remeber that during the chapman days, collin only cared about his F1 team (not to mention their dominance in F1).

the first lotus rolled out in the 70's and of course older cars needs more attention. Due to the fact that the older cars are cheaper, more people can afford but nonetheless their our those people who buy the car just to say they have one and do not take care of it.

I am a big fan of the turbo esprit (84-87). After 25+ years of the same old chasis it is still one great handling sports cars not to mention a great head turner.

im not going to say that lotus doesnt have thier own problems, just like the nsx had thier "ring" problems too. When lotus went to the v8 for the esprit, the first 1-1.5 years had liner problems. it was just like how porsche went from air to water cooled engines after the 993. There will always be bugs to sort out.

 

[Q]

Would a TVR, like an old 2500M qualify as an exotic? I think you can get nice ones less than $25K.

Of course it's British so you better bring oil-dry and flashlights. :tongue:

 

[GOTTSPD]

Would a TVR, like an old 2500M qualify as an exotic? I think you can get nice ones less than $25K.

Of course it's British so you better bring oil-dry and flashlights. :tongue:

I don't think so. I see those as being akin to an Alfa, cool, but not exotic. I'd say that the POS Mas. BiTurbo was an exotic before a TVR. Now, a new TVR Tuscan... hmmm... maybe....

I do think that the NSX is best bargain in exotics. That said, I think a GT-R is the best bang for your buck (assuming you pay sticker), but it's not an exotic. I'm not sure why, it's just not. It's a gut feel.

 

[Lotus_Esprit]

I know its not an exotic but a classic one nonetheless, the datsun 240z

 

[Paul91]

All who post about the Esprit not being reliable should be ashame of themselves. Just because you hear horror stories, doesnt mean its true. If you haven't owned one then the comment and statements you wrote should be voided.

I have have been following lotus for a long time now, you have to remeber that during the chapman days, collin only cared about his F1 team (not to mention their dominance in F1).

the first lotus rolled out in the 70's and of course older cars needs more attention. Due to the fact that the older cars are cheaper, more people can afford but nonetheless their our those people who buy the car just to say they have one and do not take care of it.

I am a big fan of the turbo esprit (84-87). After 25+ years of the same old chasis it is still one great handling sports cars not to mention a great head turner.

im not going to say that lotus doesnt have thier own problems, just like the nsx had thier "ring" problems too. When lotus went to the v8 for the esprit, the first 1-1.5 years had liner problems. it was just like how porsche went from air to water cooled engines after the 993. There will always be bugs to sort out.

Wow- Did you just compare the Lotus' reliability woes to the NSX' early snap ring issues?!?
True, I've never owned a lotus. I have, however driven more than one Esprit and know their owners well. You are the first person I've heard describe these cars as being reliable and showing passion about it. The laundry list of issues with these cars goes on and on..beyond that of your typical sports car. It's little things that were poorly engineered and generally not looked over during inspection.... Panel fitment issues, Notorious British electrical problems, bad interior, etc.

 

[Paul91]

I have to disagree. Many of the later 4 cylinder models (S4, S4S) were very reliable autos. Think 92-95.5 and you should be in good shape.

They DO require careful (and sometimes costly) maintenance.

Ah...there you go again, calling me out. "Very Reliable Autos". I suppose all of our opinions of the term 'reliable' may vary slightly or greatly, depending on ones' outlook.

Oh, just in case you forgot my age the last time you asked, it's 33.

 

[tosugrad]

Ah...there you go again, calling me out.

Oh, just in case you forgot my age the last time you asked, it's 33.

I guess I have to disagree with someone

Good thing we are the same age!

 

[Paul91]

I guess I have to disagree with someone

Good thing we are the same age!

Haha...that's why I love this forum.:biggrin:

That Esprit year span that you listed WAS the best for that car. A buddy of mine's V8 was always in the shop. Beautiful car, just a bit touchy even for an exotic.

 

[tosugrad]

You just have to know the problem areas. Mostly the touchy/fragile tranny on the Esprits.

 

[Lotus_Esprit]

You just have to know the problem areas. Mostly the touchy/fragile tranny on the Esprits.

thats lotus achilles heel.

 

[Paul91]

thats lotus achilles heel.

I do remember reading about a beefed up/smoother shifter/trans that can be put in the V8 models to make it better. But now we are getting out of scope of this conv..

 

[usafdarkhorse]

I know its not an exotic but a classic one nonetheless, the datsun 240z

I was going to mention this if someone else didn't. Though they made over 300,000 S30Z's, a Series 1 (69 - early 71) 240Z in good condition is a rare find indeed.
A PRISTINE restore should be around $15K but the values vary greatly.

When I drove my 280Z, I only saw 3 other S30Z's on the road. Really ANY S30Z on the road is a rare find.

They tend to have quite a few rust issues ( poor engineering in water evacuation spots ) and a few particular electrical gremlins due to corrosion over time ( turn signals, gauge lights, gauges, RUNNING RICH :biggrin: ), but it's definitely hard to beat the sound of those cars' inline 6 at full wail.

My dream car would be a '69 Fairlady Z with the fender mirrors, a swapped L28ET turbo motor, ZG flares, and wide wheels and tires.

 

[jaraef]

Ok, I'm probably going to get flamed on this forum but I'm going to say it. Although I am not a Corvette guy at all, how about the early 90s ZR1.

They were rare (about 3000 units) and with 375 hp and being developed and tuned by Lotus they were more special than a standard Corvette and very fast for the period. They orginally cost about the same as an NSX (60-70k, not including the dealer markup which the NSX had as well). They have also held value similarly to the NSX, you can find clean ones between 25-40k. Many are still running but you will probably want to throw a case of oil in the trunk:smile:

 

[Paul91]

Ok, I'm probably going to get flamed on this forum but I'm going to say it. Although I am not a Corvette guy at all, how about the early 90s ZR1.

They were rare (about 3000 units) and with 375 hp and being developed and tuned by Lotus they were more special than a standard Corvette and very fast for the period. They orginally cost about the same as an NSX (60-70k, not including the dealer markup which the NSX had as well). They have also held value similarly to the NSX, you can find clean ones between 25-40k. Many are still running but you will probably want to throw a case of oil in the trunk:smile:

Not a bad idea. The issue would be that it wouldn't be an exotic, which is one of his parameters.

 

[Ibn Rushd]

Not a bad idea. The issue would be that it wouldn't be an exotic, which is one of his parameters.

To him. The thing is someone else might consider the Corvette an exotic, or even the Viper (I personally don't) but in the end, someone might. The exotic deffinition varries from perosn to person.

Some define it as a low slung, exclusive car that many people don't have (usually because it's expensive) that is fast

Some define it as a car that turns heads anywhere it goes, that is quick but not necessarily the fastest thing on the street, few are on the street but when you see one it's always an experience.

Some others say it must be insanely fast, but there could be a ton, depending on where you live obviously, could be large or small, must seat two

Some say it has to be fast, give you a thrill like no other, low, head turner and must have a heritage

Some say it can be slow, but should be a head tuner anywhere anytime, can be a handful

And so forth so forth.

There are SOOO many ways to define it, that it's just not clear anymore. Some say the 911 (including Turbo, GT3 and GT2) along with the Viper, NSX and Corvette are NOT exotic.

Some say the NSX and higher end Porsche's are exotic but the Viper and Corvette will never be.

Some say the NSX, 911's aren't exotics, but the Gallardo and F430 are.

Some even say that the NSX, 911, Gallardo and F430 are NOT, but the Murcielago, Enzo, McLaren F1 are.

Obviously in this case, NSX's and 911's are counting but my point lies, if someone considers a Corvette, GTR or Elise/Exige as the cheapest EXOTICS, then they will say those are the least expensive

If some consider those to be sports car, they'll say the NSX, if someone doesn't consider the NSX one, nor the 911, they'll say F430/Gallardo.

It's a good question, but i think some ground rules need to be set as to what are you considering exotic?

Is there a price?
A quality it has to meet?
A height requirement?
Seat requirement?
Feature requirement?
Brand requirement?
heritage requirement?

 

[jaraef]

I agree, I own an NSX but I'm sure many owners of other exotics (lambos, Bugatti, etc) would not consider it an exotic. Maybe because its Japanese, or because it was reasonably priced, not rare enough, not fast enough, etc. I think many folks would consider the new or old ZR1s more exotic than the NSX (more rare and faster).

Wikipedia equates exotic car to Supercar, this is their definition (I don't agree with it, i.e. why does it need to be mid engine?).

Supercar is a term generally used for a high-end sports car, whose performance is highly superior to that of its contemporaries. It has been defined specifically as "a very expensive, fast or powerful car with a centrally located engine"[1], and stated in more general terms: "it must be very fast, with sporting handling to match," "it should be sleek and eye-catching" and its price should be "one in a rarified atmosphere of its own."[2] but the proper application of the term is subjective and disputed, especially among enthusiasts. The use of the term can be dependent on the era; a vehicle that may have been considered a supercar in one decade may not be considered the same in another decade.[citation needed] The term supercar may refer to factory-built, street-legal sports cars.[3] Some vehicles referred to as supercars include many of the features required for race cars such as roll cages. [4]

 

[Frank Oles]

I agree that "exotic car" is a very tricky designation.

In my experience of NSX ownership, my car was never shunned from an exotic car show. It always felt like it fit in just fine. Granted, I think NSXs, especially the older ones, benefit greatly from a wheel swap and other tasteful mods to bring them up to date.

I highly doubt that any Esprit would be shunned from an exotic gathering either. An Elise or an Exige... maybe.

Even a Magnum-style 308 or even a 308 GTS will always fit in. There is just something about those cars that cements them in that category.

It think with newer cars, it is a little trickier. I think EXOTIC PERFORMANCE can get you into the exotic realm, but only temporarily. The original ZR1 is a prime example. Lotus designed engine, brutal power in its day. Now, it's just kind of average. I don't get that exotic feeling when I see one anymore. I used to LOVE that car. Now... eh.

The new Z06 and the new ZR1 are similar examples. Right now, they seem to fit in the exotic category - the new ZR1 more so because it is brand new and has the exotic hardware (Enzo carbon brakes, 600hp, carbon roof, etc.). As these cars become older, their exotic cred will probably fade.

The 240Z is a great car. But it is more in the classic car realm. It is my opinion that any exotic car is a classic, but not every classic is exotic. If a car wasn't an exotic when it was new, I don't think it can ever graduate into that status because of age.

Is the Pantera a legitimate exotic? I would say yes. I think the NSX is in a very similar boat. I would always say yes, but there are some people out there with higher standards. The Audi R8 is a similar case too. Right now, it is very exotic. Will it always be? I think so. There is just something about a mid engine design that makes it exotic - it is that "something" we all like.

My 25K-30K price cap was kind of arbitrary. My only reason for putting it out there is because I think if you looked, you could find a good NSX for that amount. It is VERY HARD to find anything else genuinely exotic in that range. Anything not smashed into a pole that is.

Extending this discussion outward slightly, what is the least expensive NEW exotic car you can buy? Probably the 911 GT3 (106K) or the Audi R8 (108k) or whatever the new ZR1 sells for would be my guess. (now that the ZR1 is out, it trumps the Z06 in my opinion.) Exige is a maybe for me.