Korean threat?

[nsxlover]

I am a gulf war veteran, so I speaking from experience. We don't save peoples asses, we help protect our allies, just like you would want to protect your friends and families. Given the same situation, England would do the same for us. Hell look at all the shit they are getting for supporting us in the Iraqi war. I support whoever our president is because they are our leader. I may not agree with everything that they do, but still support them. I try to always tell myself that we are not all just Americans, but humans. That being said, the people of Iraq were being killed in the masses, if I as a human can help another human, than I will do what I can.

My little brother was injured in Iraq from a car bomb, after talking to him about the situation, he said the look on the peoples faces that he saved was thanks enough for him.

 

[NsSeX]

I think the correct answer is that the Brit's (and the rest of Europe) would have become Russian, not German.
But that is getting off topic of course.

Sorry, the cold war was the 2nd half. The brits becoming german was the first half:redface:

 

[NsSeX]

Yet another Europe vs USA thread...

I don't see how this is turning into "another" Europe vs. USA

 

[heySkippy]

Sorry, the cold war was the 2nd half. The brits becoming german was the first half:redface:

I think he meant the Russians would have won WW2 in the absence of America's involvement. As it was, they played a very major part in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

 

[Shumdit]

All I know is Japan wants us to Invade and kick NK's ass. They have pledged free PS3's for all American children as an incentive:biggrin: :tongue:

 

[Osiris_x11]

no one gives as much as the US, ever...

I think he meant the Russians would have won WW2 in the absence of America's involvement. As it was, they played a very major part in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

Interesting! This is indeed a 'chicken & the egg' type of matter, so to speak!

Whereas Stalin's Red Army kept about 6million of Der Fuhrer's finest occupied, American GI's and English forces were able to invade France & Italy and initiate an offensive towards the Rhein against a much smaller, less battle-hardened Wehrmacht.

But, it also needs to be mentioned that 100's of 1,000's of tons of food, fuel, raw-materials, munitions, and machinery was being shipped to the Soviet Union from the U.S. regularly w/o interruption. The American assistance not only came as provisions & aid, but the U.S. also engaged Imperial Japan in the South Pacific. The Emperor's military encompassed a massive, brutal army and a very well-trained & formidable Navy & Air Force. Make no doubt about it, the military dictatorship of Japan had the mineral & material riches of Siberia in it's aspirations once Indonesia, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Singapore, Java, Philipines, and other Pacific archipelagos rich w/ oil, timber, and rubber were under the flag of the "Land of the Rising Sun". Alot of the Soviet's heavy-industry & military complexes were moved towards Siberia in fear of falling under the control of the advancing German armies, and adundant rural labor to make up for the lost ranks who were engaged in battle on the western & Baltic fronts against the invading Wehrmacht.

Sprechen sie Deutsches ohne U.S. gehilfen! :biggrin:

 

[avalon96]

1st, please stop refering to North Korea as Korea.:wink:
There is North Korea (democratic people's republic of korea ), and South Korea (republic of Korea). Two totally different countries. Try calling a Taiwanese person Chinese.... there's hell to pay:biggrin:

There is a difference between the people and the government. I don't have a problem with North Koreans. I don't have a problem with Chinese people. I do have a problem with the governments and political leaders. That is all.

You have a tendency to over-generalize with unfounded confidence--try to stop.

 

[avalon96]

Don't want to tangle with China? do you mean military action? If you mean tangle with china as in "armed conflict" In my personal opinion, whe would kick their asses all day/week/month/year long.:wink: they may have a billion man army, but they are as advanced as a rock:biggrin:

I am glad you'll never be in a position to decide whether we go to war with them or not--we'd all be screwed.

 

[AU_NSX]

Just half? lol If it weren't for us, the brit's would of been conquered by the germans:biggrin: The cold war would be the 2nd half.

*corrected!*

America had nothing to do with saving the British from a German Invasion... They accomplished that all on their own ...

The liberation of the mainland is a different story! THAT my friend is where the US's entrance into WW2 did make a difference!

 

[AU_NSX]

Don't want to tangle with China? do you mean military action? If you mean tangle with china as in "armed conflict" In my personal opinion, whe would kick their asses all day/week/month/year long.:wink: they may have a billion man army, but they are as advanced as a rock:biggrin:

You are obviously have no idea what happens outside your cocoon...

China have recently put 2 men into space...

Have you been there?.. Have you seen the factories?..

 

[AU_NSX]

I think the correct answer is that the Brit's (and the rest of Europe) would have become Russian, not German.
But that is getting off topic of course.

That is a ridiculous statement!... Do you have any idea of who was even involved in WW2 and whose side each was on? Do you know why Russia was an Ally to Britain?

 

[NsSeX]

I am glad you'll never be in a position to decide whether we go to war with them or not--we'd all be screwed.

So am I! That way, I can freely express my ideas + thoughts:wink:

And no, I am not over generalizing when it comes to North Korea and South Korea. There is a difference.

You are obviously have no idea what happens outside your cocoon...

China have recently put 2 men into space...

Have you been there?.. Have you seen the factories?..

Wow, so what if China (a supposed superpower) FINALLY has the tech to launch men into space? Yes, they now have the capability or will soon have the ablility to launch ICBMS. Does that mean that their military has the same level of training, equipment, and funding as our troops? NO.
Do you honestly believe that China has the ablility to produce stealth anything? They have to "buy" Russia's Mig designs because they can't build their own fighter jets. Hell America is already fielding UAV's:biggrin:

Lets see:
Nuke war" USA vs. China = We all f#cked
Conventional war = We kick their ass all day long

 

[Osiris_x11]

what about Macau? hehe...

Conventional war = We kick their ass all day long

Yes, China's People's Army/military is crappe` relative to the U.S. military. No doubt about that.

However, what is a concern of the Pentagon, as well as Taiwan & perhaps others in Southeast Asia, is that the reforms in Beijing have allowed the People's Republic to sustain a level of economic growth never seen before in history, ever. The influx of currency fills up the treasury allowing advanced military equipment & systems to be purchased, not just developed. SAM's, advanced radar/control systems, warships, and so forth can level the playing field, all at the costs of a few billion dollars over a few years vs. hundreds of billions of dollars and decades to develop as well diverting crucial brainpower from the civic labor pool.

Now w/ that said, there is a remarkable change occurring in China. Dollars matter more than "victory or life" ala' Korean War. War or any lengthy hostile engagement would be detrimental to the Chinese economy, much moreso than the U.S. economy. The politburo & party beaurecrats in Beijing have taken a liking to tailored-suits, imported automobiles, and the oppulence that capitalism & diplomacy provide. Days of the hardliners are pretty much done, and those who still have the party doctrine fervor are shifted to the interior to keep the masses in check as per their ideal stance.

 

[NsSeX]

Re: what about Macau? hehe...

Yes, China's People's Army/military is crappe` relative to the U.S. military. No doubt about that.

However, what is a concern of the Pentagon, as well as Taiwan & perhaps others in Southeast Asia, is that the reforms in Beijing have allowed the People's Republic to sustain a level of economic growth never seen before in history, ever. The influx of currency fills up the treasury allowing advanced military equipment & systems to be purchased, not just developed. SAM's, advanced radar/control systems, warships, and so forth can level the playing field all at the costs of a few billion dollars over a few years.

Now w/ that said, there is a remarkable change occurring in China. Dollars matter more than "victory or life" ala' Korean War. War or any engagement would be detrimental to the Chinese economy, much moreso than the U.S. economy. The politburo & party beaurecrats in Beijing have taken a liking to tailored-suits, imported automobiles, and the oppulence that capitalism & diplomacy provide. Days of the hardliners are pretty much done, and those who still have the party doctrine fervor are shifted to the interior to keep the masses in check as per their ideal stance.

Quote from post # 14
If you mean tangle with china as in "armed conflict" In my personal opinion, whe would kick their asses all day/week/month/year long. they may have a billion man army, but they are as advanced as a rock

Osiris I completely agree that an "economic war" would be a different story:smile: :smile: I was just refering to an "armed conflict":wink: :smile:

 

[Osiris_x11]

keep an eye on Fiji too...

Osiris I completely agree that an "economic war" would be a different story:smile: :smile: I was just refering to an "armed conflict":wink: :smile:

Oh, of-course I knew what you meant! I should've said: "In addition..."

Even I'm concerned what a few billion cash can get you, and I don't mean black-market! French, German, and Russian firms got some goodies that can be a pain-in-the-azz if/when there would be some conflict involving the People's Republic... {satellites, recon-drones, submarines, destroyers, carriers, SAM's, anti-ship & cruise missiles, self-controlling & arming GPS sea-mines, mobile air/ground radar command & control systems, mobile jamming-networks, and but of-course escargot, weinerschnitzel, and borsch... :tongue: }

Post 9/11 though, North Korea lost one if it's biggest exports: ballistic missile & rocket / warhead technology & general military consulting/expertise. Libya, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and possibly even Iraq all had some level of involvement w/ Kim's crew, whether trade/swap or acquire w/ currency. I'm sure this cash-cow & naughty trade-network disappearing has severely curtailed any nefarious ambitions North Korea may have had forthcoming.

Difference now between North Korea & China's relationship is more about commoradaray. Of-course China is North Korea's only trade route of significance (via land-border). But, I reckon there's more trade between Connecticut & Rhode Island, lol. Kim's father was more cordial and close w/ previous Beijing Premiers in the 70's & 80's. Most or all of the ol' school Chinese party big-whigs have been relegated to senility, 'retired' to the interior provinces, or simply are fertilizer. The new(er) generation of party-leaders & politburo commisars have no direct link in spirit or kinship to the great march w/ Chairman Mao' or the cultural revolution, and so forth. These new-age socialists are more corporate executive than marx'ist!

 

[docjohn]

I don't think it is too tough to figure out that NK hopes to "get stuff" from the rest of us if it gives up it's missle and nukes programs.Heck if I were(crazy) running a country that was in that kind of shape I certainly would entertain doing something threatening to the world powers and let my diplomates work out the handouts and trade benifits if I stop

 

[SNDSOUL]

I don't think it is too tough to figure out that NK hopes to "get stuff" from the rest of us if it gives up it's missle and nukes programs.Heck if I were(crazy) running a country that was in that kind of shape I certainly would entertain doing something threatening to the world powers and let my diplomates work out the handouts and trade benifits if I stop

So, I didnt realize that NK was as bad off as it appears. Their actions make sense using your logic, although they are definetly rolling the dice. So do we give them aid to stop or let them continue to hang themselves? I think in this case it would be more benificial to let one of the other countries involed take action/aid and therefore keep the US nose somewhat clean. We already have enough world issues.

 

[AU_NSX]

Wow, so what if China (a supposed superpower) FINALLY has the tech to launch men into space? Yes, they now have the capability or will soon have the ablility to launch ICBMS. Does that mean that their military has the same level of training, equipment, and funding as our troops? NO.
Do you honestly believe that China has the ablility to produce stealth anything? They have to "buy" Russia's Mig designs because they can't build their own fighter jets. Hell America is already fielding UAV's:biggrin:

Lets see:
Nuke war" USA vs. China = We all f#cked
Conventional war = We kick their ass all day long

Last time the almighty invincible techno-savvy US took on China it was a stalemate! Hence the reason we now have North & South Korea! But China were a bunch of farmers then... The US had jets, U2 spy planes, helicopters, nukes... The US military was much more advanced technologically than China then as well...

Now look at how the war in Afghanistan and Iraq has depleted the US Military current capability... And that is against an enemy who couldn't really fight back...

Any war with China would devastate BOTH sides...

Only stupid people don't learn from their mistakes...

 

[AU_NSX]

I don't think it is too tough to figure out that NK hopes to "get stuff" from the rest of us if it gives up it's missle and nukes programs.Heck if I were(crazy) running a country that was in that kind of shape I certainly would entertain doing something threatening to the world powers and let my diplomates work out the handouts and trade benifits if I stop

I totally agree Doc...

Talk of war and invasion is really out of the question... Sanctions and trade embargos I think are warranted at this point in time and it would "force" North Korea to really either:

a) Accept the UN agreed aid package

b) Accelerate the economic decline of a dying regime so that they will have a spectacular collapse like we saw in East Germany and eventually Russia... And then they will be asking for Re-unification with the relatively wealthy and successful South Korea...

 

[downwiz2]

America invaded iraq to control the middle east.

America already controls SK, phillipines, Japan, why NK to the list ?

 

[avalon96]

So am I! That way, I can freely express my ideas + thoughts:wink:

That doesn't even make sense

And no, I am not over generalizing when it comes to North Korea and South Korea. There is a difference.

I think we already established that. Add lack of reading comrehension to your faux credentials.

Wow, so what if China (a supposed superpower) FINALLY has the tech to launch men into space?

hahaha. See above. That's it. It's like arguing with Rumsfeld...

 

[docjohn]

Well I just thought that maybe we are all reading into this too deeply.I think the simpler answer might be that the local blockbuster video near the imperial pallace just stocked "Team America World Police" LOL:biggrin:

 

[NsSeX]

That doesn't even make sense



I think we already established that. Add lack of reading comrehension to your faux credentials.



hahaha. See above. That's it. It's like arguing with Rumsfeld...

lol if that's the best you can come up with as a counter argument, yes, that should be IT for you:wink:

 

[downwiz2]

war b/t China and America will never happen. Think, two greedy countries will avoid each other. war would only harm them both.

in regards to the post above mentioning US militaries superior power, yes indeed, America still is the most advanced army. But nouveua technology do not always determine the outcome of the battle keep that in mind. Vietcongs proved that. Afghans proved that as well against the Soviets.

day by day, the PRC's military capabilities are getting bigger, and more technologically advanced....i see this as even more threat than Kim Jong il's little half assed soviet scud reverse engineered missiles.

in regards to the north korean "ICBM"....its just a cry for help from Kim. NK military is slowly decaying, lacking fuel, technology. Kim will never start a war he cannot win, because this will be a big blow to his regime. The only country that should be scared is SK, and Japan, because the missiles CAN reach it. I think its also possible for a missile arms race amongst the three countries.

I think he is using the missile card, to push SK into a deliberately confusing situtations. For instance, Japan will try to rearm its military, raising concerns and reminesence of its brutal imperial rule. This will lead to possible conflicts between its nearest neighbour SK, distracting SK. I think this distraction is exactly what Kim wants, so that he may lay his last move on SK in an effort for unification. he sees opportunity in crisis. and hes on the right track.

hes next rumored successor Kim Pyoung-il, i think, will bring a whole new north korea. probably following Chinese market styles. Kim despises pyoung-il, so it could be possible he won't be the next successor, but allegedly pyoung il smarter, and more intelligent than Kim jong il.

just my thoughts.....:redface:

 

[AU_NSX]

You should of added those B-52 flights armed with Nukes that Mcarthur so badly wanted to use against China:biggrin:

Your PROUD of the fact that the US was considering using Nuclear Weapons???