Motor mag: great NSX letter

[sparky]

In July Motor magazine "Write Off" letters section p19 there's an excellent submission on the NSX by one Andrew Cheong. Andrew puts the boot into Motor for their lazy article on the NSX in the May edition, and very effectively captures the true pedigree of the NSX.

Of course yobbo Morley completely misses (or ignores) the point in his moronic response.

Wondering if Andrew Cheong is here on prime ?? If so, congrats Andrew for flying the NSX flag as it deserves.

PS: in same mag p15 a bit of a beat up about a maybe future NSX. At least there's a good picture

 

[Brendan19]

haha! yeah i saw that one, im waiting for the bloke who sent that in to write a response to morley's next month.

The nsx on pg 15 seems alright to, not sure if im a fan of the TTv8 though, thought a vtec motor should just be raw n/a

 

[sadlerau]

I just e-mailed a letter to David Morley via the magazine, I wonder if they will publish it?

Dear Mr David Morley,

I do not know you. In all probability you may be a very nice chap. Indeed you are such a nice chap that someone pays you good money to write about your opinions in car magazines. But the mark of a really nice chap is to acknowledge that you are not always right, and indeed you may occasionally be wrong.

Case in point, your NSX feature to which you are entitled to offer your opinion [it is your article after all]. Great, you gave your opinion and even got some facts right, but you actually got some facts wrong as Andrew Cheong pointed out, perhaps a little pointedly.

But to dismiss the NSX as a “fast Civic” belittles your credibility even more than it does the NSX’s. Honda as an enthusiast’s marque may be dead here in Australia but it is no reason to push your prejudices about Honda onto readers who rely on you opinion for an understanding of the cars they may know little about. How can I ever contemplate reading one of your articles without thinking how much your prejudices colour said article?

Yes I’m a happy NSX owner, but don’t take my word for it. Your emminant colleague [well I think he is emminant] Peter Robinson in July’s Wheel Magazine rates the NSX as #17 in his top 50 Greatest Cars of all time. Porsche’s 911 993 rated #18 and Ferrari’s F355 #16.

Fast Civic indeed.

Do yourself a favour and buy the magazine and read the article. In it you will read what Gordon Murray [yes THE Gordon Murray] is quoted as saying-

“The moment I drove the NSX, all the benchmark cars –Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini – I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind…the NSX’s ride quality and handling would become our new design target.” Obviously he was benchmarking a “supercar” was he not? After all he was developing the McLaren F1!

Fast Civic indeed.

The British magazine Performance Car [which later morphed into Evo Magazine] rated the NSX as Performance Car of the Year in 1991 and 1994, the year in which it beat the 911 to the title.

Fast Civic indeed.

Does your opinion as a “motoring journalist” hold more sway than Richard S. Chang of the New York Times?

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/some-supercar-thoughts/

The NSX very obviously did not “float your boat” but that does not deny it is a seminal car in “supercar” history. Oh and the NSX actually does “float my boat” assuming I have understood what you meant by that. I race cars for a hobby, win class championships at a state and Australian level, even set lap records, which qualifies me to comment on fast cars, no?

Laurie D’Alessio
___________________________________________

As for their article on the NSX returns, I wouldn't pay ANY attention - they have obviously just trolled the internet to pick up tit bits without any real understanding of where Honda is coming from. Heck not even Honda knows where it is coming from anymore :biggrin:

 

[sparky]

onya sadlerau, let's hope they publish, but be ready for another snide Morley retort

one other juicy fact often forgotten is that the NSX won the first two Targa Tasmania events (91 & 92)

 

[AU_NSX]

Well said Sadlerau! Totally agree with what you and Andrew had to say!

Yes I will be interested to see if they print your letter, however I will be surprised if they do. This David Morely seems to not take too kindly to constructive criticism as he practices lasy journalism! So I would bet he would be the "needs to have the last word" sort of character. The "know-it-all" & "been there done that" dinner party bore!

His article and his response to Andrew's letter just goes to justify why I stopped buying car magazines around the same time I graduated from university and could form my own opinions and afford my own cars...

 

[Brendan19]

extremely well said, as i am quite young still, i often read car magazines purely to get the opinion of a talented journalist who has had many years of experience in the automotive industry, but if this is how 'Morley' describes the nsx, what worth is any of his articles i have read in the past and will in the future.

 

[Ingster]

Hi all,

I am the author of that letter and to be honest, I am quite surprised that it was published. I don't buy Motor regularly so if not for the discussion here, I would not even have known. It was heat-of-the-moment stuff and not particularly nice, though in my defence it is not the first time David Morley has written rubbish about the NSX (there is a used car review on drive.com.au from 2007 with the same condescending tripe, just goes to show how much these "journalists" recycle their work).

I love that his response to my letter is along the lines of "I drove it a couple of times more than 10 years ago so my opinion is fact". I only bought one with my own money and drove thousands of kms in it so what do I know?

BTW, thanks for the nice comments here, it is such a pity that an iconic car, and there is no doubt the NSX is just that, is still sadly misunderstood by so many.

 

[sparky]

ahah the real Andrew Cheong arrives - welcome !

... it is such a pity that an iconic car, and there is no doubt the NSX is just that, is still sadly misunderstood by so many.

IMO most car enthusiasts do respect the NSX. Sure they might say it could do with more power (even some of us do) but power isn't everything. The truth is the NSX is an excellent package.

I imagine most of you have same experience I have driving my NSX around town, it turns heads everywhere. I hear teenage boys yell "NSX!"to their mates as I drive nearby.

And then there's driving the NSX for real.

So I reckon the "misunderstanding" is only in a few failed factions in the motoring press, like Morley. Such indiscriminate journos were truly shocked/impressed when the NSX appeared in 1990 and dared to be called a supercar. Sure it was a mid engined, aluminium monocoque, built way better than ferrari etc , but it was "Japanese" and expensive Japanese to boot. In 1990 the idea of Japanese supercar was so radical (the R32 GT-R was just being introduced). So they felt they had to bag it, and they simply never grew out of the habit.

 

[sadlerau]

Funnily enough the NSX gets great respect from Ferrari drivers I meet when we go on our "Coconut Run" drives. I think any knowledgable enthusiast knows and understands what the NSX is. In the last couple of weeks when I've parked, I've had 2 guys get out of their WRXs and come over to have a look, both telling me that the NSX is their dream car! Not bad for a twenty something girl

 

[FrogNBoggle]

"the "misunderstanding" is only in a few failed factions in the motoring press"

Joshua Dowling is another one; This is a reply I received from him when he panned the face-lifted '02

"Thanks for your email. Sensationalist drivel?
We drive 150 cars a year and, you may be surprised to learn, I was a fan of the original Honda NSX.
Perhaps there was a difference between your car and the one we drove, which was nothing like the original NSX we tested.
Re quality: we know how to close a boot and it didn't close properly on our car despite making allowances for Honda's light lid.
Re price: a Subaru STi or BMW M3 will out accelerate and out-manouvre the current NSX at a fraction of the price. And a Porsche will do likewise at the same price - and has better resale value.
I don't think we are alone in not liking the latest NSX. Have you looked at the sales figures? Three so far this year. They're hardly bolting out the door.
I have strong reservations about recommending anyone pay this much for a new NSX. A used example? That's a different proposition.

Regards
Joshua Dowling
Motoring Editor
The Sydney Morning Herald"

 

[FrogNBoggle]

Hey Ingster,

Would you please post the text of your letter? I refuse to buy a copy of the mag/rag to read it. I bought the issue with the offensive story; It'll be the last I ever buy. I was going to write in, but got side tracked. Thanks for doing it for me (and all other NSX fans). We could be accused of shooting the messenger, but it is the messenger's responsibility to ensure the true & correct message is delivered and not lost in translation. There are too many educated car experts out there who appreciate the "tour de force" that the NSX was (and is) for us to worry about uneducated opinions.

 

[sadlerau]

"the "misunderstanding" is only in a few failed factions in the motoring press"

Joshua Dowling is another one; This is a reply I received from him when he panned the face-lifted '02

"Thanks for your email. Sensationalist drivel?
We drive 150 cars a year and, you may be surprised to learn, I was a fan of the original Honda NSX.
Perhaps there was a difference between your car and the one we drove, which was nothing like the original NSX we tested.
Re quality: we know how to close a boot and it didn't close properly on our car despite making allowances for Honda's light lid.
Re price: a Subaru STi or BMW M3 will out accelerate and out-manouvre the current NSX at a fraction of the price. And a Porsche will do likewise at the same price - and has better resale value.
I don't think we are alone in not liking the latest NSX. Have you looked at the sales figures? Three so far this year. They're hardly bolting out the door.
I have strong reservations about recommending anyone pay this much for a new NSX. A used example? That's a different proposition.

Regards
Joshua Dowling
Motoring Editor
The Sydney Morning Herald"

Unforunately Dowling is right on one point at least - by '02 Honda had let the side down. The NSX should have been more up to date than it was.

As for pricing, well tell that to a gentleman when he next goes to buy a Tag Huer watch. Gees, you could get a Casio for only 1.5% of what you paid for the Tag watch!! :biggrin:

 

[NSXclubofAustralia]

Thanks for sending in the letters - I felt like sending in a letter, but given it was my NSX in the pictures I felt a slight conflict of interest.

 

[funkynsx]

I am a massive fan of the nsx.
But lets face it boys its under powered and under brakes.
The original nsx was revolutionary but as time went on and other super cars made big leaps the nsx didnt.
that is why it never sold in big numbers in the early 2000's.
But the nsx still has the potential to compete with most super cars if you just let the beast come out of its shell.
All the upgrades are out there to make this happen.
my opinion is with around 500 hp, bbk, and suspension upgrades the nsx is as good as most modern day super cars. if not better.
I am a little embarrased by the stock nsx's power. previously i had an rx7 that would of blown the doors off every standard nsx made.
so dont get offended when people give their opinion on the nsx.
alot of the time they are right.
But they are judging the stock machine. not what it can be.

 

[NSXclubofAustralia]

I personally have no problem with them judging the stock machine. What I have a problem with is them judging the 1990 stock machine by today's standards. Back then it was an amazing car. Yes, by today's standards, they are right - it is not that amazing (in stock). But the F430 is not that amazing compared to the 458 either. Time moves on. They need to judge a car by its era. If the NSX first came out in 1997 or 2003, then they would have had every right to bag it (IMHO). Unfortunately, Honda did build the NSX for too long. Lets hope they build another.

 

[funkynsx]

I personally have no problem with them judging the stock machine. What I have a problem with is them judging the 1990 stock machine by today's standards. Back then it was an amazing car. Yes, by today's standards, they are right - it is not that amazing (in stock). But the F430 is not that amazing compared to the 458 either. Time moves on. They need to judge a car by its era. If the NSX first came out in 1997 or 2003, then they would have had every right to bag it (IMHO). Unfortunately, Honda did build the NSX for too long. Lets hope they build another.

I agree,
when the nsx first came out it made mockery of the ferrari 430.
But times have changed.
No matter what anyone says its one of the best road cars ever made.
Just needs to be updated.
I'm glad they have scrapped the new concept nsx.
Hopefully they will bring one out with a rear engine in future.

 

[AU_NSX]

Hopefully they will bring one out with a rear engine in future.

Unfortunately Honda's passion died with Soichiro.

That which was already in the development pipeline was still produced however nothing of any interest has been developed since his death.

The company was taken over by a board of accountants!

One by one the cars have been dropped as the sales dropped because these cars were no longer being developed. These cars were the S2000 and the NSX. It took Porsche and Ferrari 10 years to catch up with the technology used in the NSX! And the S2000 stunned the world with its engine Technology that has never been equalled! However a board of directors had other ideas than spending money on R&D for class leading and ground breaking technologies.

Honda's Board of accountants even allowed it's F1 engineers to be snapped up by Ferrari when they pulled out after Soichiro's death in '92. Hence why they could never get it back together when they re-entered F1 with BAR. They lost their experience and lost those that shared Soichiro's passion.

Soichiro is dead... Honda is not dead, but they are just as good as dead being only a lifeless entity...

Do not expect anything from them ever again! They are followers now not leaders...

 

[NSX-SA]

Unfortunately Honda's passion died with Soichiro.

That which was already in the development pipeline was still produced however nothing of any interest has been developed since his death.

The company was taken over by a board of accountants!

One by one the cars have been dropped as the sales dropped because these cars were no longer being developed. These cars were the S2000 and the NSX. It took Porsche and Ferrari 10 years to catch up with the technology used in the NSX! And the S2000 stunned the world with its engine Technology that has never been equalled! However a board of directors had other ideas than spending money on R&D for class leading and ground breaking technologies.

Honda's Board of accountants even allowed it's F1 engineers to be snapped up by Ferrari when they pulled out after Soichiro's death in '92. Hence why they could never get it back together when they re-entered F1 with BAR. They lost their experience and lost those that shared Soichiro's passion.

Soichiro is dead... Honda is not dead, but they are just as good as dead being only a lifeless entity...

Do not expect anything from them ever again! They are followers now not leaders...

Here here - has anyone walked into a Honda dealership lately boring shopping trolley cars even the sales people are tired of the line-up.

 

[sadlerau]

What's worse is that those showrooms are generally devoid of shoppers, let alone buyers. I'm afraid Honda is becoming irrelevent in Australia :frown:

 

[funkynsx]

The nsx is the only car i would own that honda ever made.
But what a car!:tongue:

 

[FrogNBoggle]

Hey Ingster,

Would you please post the text of your letter? I refuse to buy a copy of the mag/rag to read it.

 

[Ingster]

Hi FrogNBoggle, this is what I sent to Motor. Like you I refuse to give them my money again so I don't know if they had edited anything out.

"It must be easy being David Morley. When tasked with writing the NSX feature in the May issue, all he apparently did was regurgitate a few trite lines from internet car forums, take some snaps of someone's pride and joy (make sure not to drive it in case the misinformed cliches don't hold up), then wait for the cheque in the post. One would think that if one were to bash a car in a major enthusiast publication, one should at least attempt some research first (even a disinterested hack should be able to manage 5 minutes on Google).

1) The 3.0 litre manual NSX had 201kw from day one (206kw from the 3.2). Only the detuned 4-speed auto version came with 188kw.

2) That the NSX compared poorly with European exotics from day one is a popular myth. As a contemporary of the Ferrari 348 and Porsche 964 (all released within 12 months in 1989-90), it was more than competitive in terms of price and performance while being generations ahead in design and construction. The later 3.2 litre 6-speeder was also competitive with the 993, and only just behind the F355 which cost significantly more. Only the 996 and 360 were clearly superior (on paper at least) but the NSX was on its last legs by then. The Skyline GTR, like M3s and various AMGs, offered lots of performance and handling but its mass production sedan roots meant it was for a somewhat different audience.

3) Snide and unoriginal remarks about the NSX's supposed lack of performance and "character" are about two decades late; many respected automotove engineers and writers have since come to recognise the timelessness of its virtues, such as its ease of use, thoroughness of design and the conceptual breakthroughs involved in bringing it to production. An Audi RS4/5/6 may have more gizmos and be faster everywhere but I know which one is the true classic. A point I believe is beyond those lacking both imagination and capacity to see past default choices (e.g. 911s)."

 

[funkynsx]

Hi FrogNBoggle, this is what I sent to Motor. Like you I refuse to give them my money again so I don't know if they had edited anything out.

"It must be easy being David Morley. When tasked with writing the NSX feature in the May issue, all he apparently did was regurgitate a few trite lines from internet car forums, take some snaps of someone's pride and joy (make sure not to drive it in case the misinformed cliches don't hold up), then wait for the cheque in the post. One would think that if one were to bash a car in a major enthusiast publication, one should at least attempt some research first (even a disinterested hack should be able to manage 5 minutes on Google).

1) The 3.0 litre manual NSX had 201kw from day one (206kw from the 3.2). Only the detuned 4-speed auto version came with 188kw.

2) That the NSX compared poorly with European exotics from day one is a popular myth. As a contemporary of the Ferrari 348 and Porsche 964 (all released within 12 months in 1989-90), it was more than competitive in terms of price and performance while being generations ahead in design and construction. The later 3.2 litre 6-speeder was also competitive with the 993, and only just behind the F355 which cost significantly more. Only the 996 and 360 were clearly superior (on paper at least) but the NSX was on its last legs by then. The Skyline GTR, like M3s and various AMGs, offered lots of performance and handling but its mass production sedan roots meant it was for a somewhat different audience.

3) Snide and unoriginal remarks about the NSX's supposed lack of performance and "character" are about two decades late; many respected automotove engineers and writers have since come to recognise the timelessness of its virtues, such as its ease of use, thoroughness of design and the conceptual breakthroughs involved in bringing it to production. An Audi RS4/5/6 may have more gizmos and be faster everywhere but I know which one is the true classic. A point I believe is beyond those lacking both imagination and capacity to see past default choices (e.g. 911s)."

Are you sure about those HP figures?
Everything i have read says the 3L was 188kw and the auto's were around 160kw.
I dont mind if i'm wrong but thats what i have read.

 

[Ingster]

Are you sure about those HP figures?
Everything i have read says the 3L was 188kw and the auto's were around 160kw.
I dont mind if i'm wrong but thats what i have read.

Information like power figures is readily available from various reputable sources, I am not aware of what you have been reading.

 

[sparky]

I've got an original Honda UK brochure for 1991 NSX. It states "... 3.0 litre, DOHC V6 transverse mounted engine delivering 274 PS, 8,000rpm and 168mph."

274 PS (PferdeStarken or literally Horse Power in German) = 270hp = 201kW

Post '97 the 3.2 litre NSX engine delivered 290hp = 216kW (although it may be 290 PS = 213kW)

And I've seen both these figures in lots of places, including attached chart. I understand UK cars had the JDM spec engines, same as in Australia.