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Now I understand about Windows security...

Joined
30 May 2000
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We do have a few Windows XP machines at work and they work OK for the most part. Of course, I've heard about virus and security problems and because of that I understand why I get the message that Windows has important security updates to install. It seems like every week I'm running these installs and rebooting.

We do use Macs for most of our stuff and these machines don't even have virus utilities installed. I've often wondered, is it really because of security-through-obscurity that keeps us Mac users devoid of these problems so prevalent in the Windows world?

I ran across this article that provides an excellent explanation (facts not hype) of the problem...

Five Architectural Flaws in Windows Solved In Mac OS X

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/Oct05.5Flaws.html

What was intended to be a short aside about Mac OS X's strengths turned into an entire series on Windows NT/2000/XP flaws! Here is the first of five examples of core Windows architectural problems that relate to process management, applications and security.

When writing the second article in the Wishlist for Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard series, I started by comparing ideas Apple that had borrowed from Windows, ideas they could borrow, and areas where Mac OS X was already ahead. The latter begat five articles, of which this is the first.

It is useful to understand why bad ideas are bad. It's also useful to identify how significant and difficult to solve a given problem is. This article tries to give a brief indication of why these design flaws are real and significant issues for Microsoft, and the real world problems they cause for Windows users.

I tried to limit the scope of this article to flaws related to process management and security. I've also separately written another article related to the Windows Registry that I'll be publishing soon. Without further ado, here is:

Flaw 1 - Windows' Interactive Services

Like all Unix distributions, Mac OS X spawns background system processes, called daemons, to handle various tasks. When a user logs into Mac OS X, a special security context is created for that user. Any applications that user launches are started under that user's credentials. Background processes can respond to requests from user-level applications, but they can not initiate any contact with the user, nor present any graphical interface, because they operate in a separate security context.

This is an important security measure that is missing in Windows, which allows for "interactive services." Allowing system processes running as root ("Services running as LocalSystem" in Windows-speak) to present a graphic UI to a logged in user ("become interactive with the desktop") is, to quote an MSDN blogger, a "spectacularly bad idea that should never have been added to the system."

Window's casual mix of security contexts makes it easy for malicious code to jump from the user's limited access realm into the root context, making it easy for a basic exploit to take over the entire machine. Exploiting this Windows-only flaw is called a Shatter Attack.

Three years ago, Microsoft replied to the threat of Shatter Attacks by stating that it was a known problem, and only offering that the inherently insecure and commonly used feature shouldn't be used (while citing earlier documentation that explained how to use it); that it only affected computers where a user could log in, such as a terminal server, or a workstation, or a server allowing logins (boggle!); and that, while a Shatter Attack could own your Terminal Server, it couldn't directly own the network. Of course, there are other security flaws to use once an exploit owns a trusted server.

Microsoft has decided to remove interactive services from Windows Vista (five years after the discovery became widely publicized), but this will break all the Windows services that currently use this insecure mechanism.

As a side note, Mac OS X's security edge over Windows in this example wasn't a product of hindsight; Apple just employed reasonable, known security principles. Shatter Attacks were exposed in 2002, the timeframe of Jaguar, after Apple had completed most of Mac OS X's security policy.

Flaw 2 - Windows' opaque and illogical file system presentation

Mac OS X applications and files are organized into clear, obvious security contexts.

Apple controls:
- system and support files in /System/Library

Machine administrators control:
- support files in local /Library
- applications in local /Applications
- documents in local / (root directory)

Users control:
- support files in /User/username/Library
- applications are installed in /User/username/Applications
- documents under /User/username/

Apple's convention of bundles, which present a folder and all of its contents as a file, renders individual Mac OS X applications as clean, uncluttered, self contained objects.

In Windows, the user, local and system contexts are muddied. Directories containing applications and settings are considered too confusing and dangerous to even display for users, so when a user tries to browse the file system, they are presented with:

These files are hidden. This folder contains files that keep your system working properly. You should not modify its contents.

Microsoft installs Windows into /WINDOWS, but the directory is mingled with third party additions, the problem that the reserved /System directory solves on Mac OS X.

Most programs install into /Program Files. Microsoft considers this folder too messy, confusing and dangerous to even display for users. Additionally, while Windows has lacked a limitation on file names for years, Windows applications are still a mess of cryptic 8.3 names, so that Internet Explorer is iexplore.exe and Outlook Express is msimn.exe.

Being messy and cryptic is not necessary, it is simply a Windows convention; Apple installs iTunes.exe and QuickTimePlayer.exe for Windows users.

Users have their own folders under /Documents and Settings/username/, but the Application Data and Local Settings folders (the equivalent to Mac OS X's ~/Library ) are both considered too confusing and dangerous to display. This is problematic for users, since that's where their cookies, caches, plug-ins, email and other stuff is saved.

Most of the user, application and machine settings are actually kept in the Windows Registry, which is even more complex and dangerous to allow users to access.

Windows' complexification further results in a file system layout that doesn't make logical sense. The user's desktop is presented as being the root directory, with everything inside it (My Computer, which contains drives; My Documents; etc.), but it's also presented elsewhere at its real location: /Documents and Settings/username/Desktop.

However, once a user navigates to the desktop, they can't go up a level to view their user directory. This results in shortcuts being put in the desktop directory (when viewed from a file browser) that don't necessarily appear on the desktop. What a mess!

It's easy to continue complaining about the illogical, inconsistent behaviors in Windows, but the key point is that Windows' opaque file system not only makes it hard to find things, but it also, more importantly, makes it easy for malicious code to hide things in a way that users can't easily monitor or defend against.

Flaw 3 - 'Least privilege' is impractical and broken

In the classic Mac OS (as with DOS), there was no concept of users or security. Users launched applications that could do anything. The system couldn't prevent users from deleting or overwriting critical files, and any application could stuff the System Folder full of Extensions that directly modified the system.

While a clean Mac install was pretty stable, once enough junk was installed, the system would lose stability and frequently crash, losing all unsaved data. It provided unbounded freedom through anarchy, and traded off security and stability for convenience and simplicity.

As computers joined networks, they were exposed to real external threats that demanded more attention to security. Unix, and later Windows NT, took somewhat similar approaches to providing this, by handing authority to a privileged kernel that preemptively scheduled tasks, restricted access to protected memory and other hardware, set ownership and permissions on files, and defined users with restricted privileges.

The capacity for restricted users allows applications and processes to run with the least amount of privilege necessary, so if they are compromised, anything that takes control is restricted in what damage it can cause.

Limited user privileges act like janitors in a high security building; they have enough security clearance to do their work, but are restricted from areas they don't need to enter. If someone were to steal their keys, they would still only have limited access within the building.

"Least privilege" is an important security principle that is poorly implemented in Windows. Part of the problem is sloppy programming by application developers, which demand excessive privileges when installing applications and consequently require users to have administrative privileges simply to run them. In Windows, the janitors have keys to everything. Pick a janitor's pocket, and you have free run of the entire building.

One method for making 'least privilege' feasible in Windows is the secondary sign-on feature. In Windows, a user can right click on an application and choose "Run As..." to execute the program as an administrative user, but this also runs the application in the admin user's environment, so that program can no longer see or access the current user's shares, personal files, or mounted drives. This frequently leaves the application improperly installed for non-admin users.

Running Windows under non-admin accounts is so difficult that one "Windows security expert" suggested that the idea of least privilege is a "red herring," and basically concluded that, since Windows' fragile notion of security is so easy to exploit anyway, why bother?

If Windows apologists demanded better security from Microsoft, instead of making excuses for the Church of Redmond and indoctrinating sheep-like submission into the Windows faithful, perhaps Microsoft would consider security a more important feature.

Another problem with using secondary sign-on, or "Run As...", to achieve least privilege is that the Windows interface confuses the definition of an application. Sometimes a control panel is a folder, sometimes its an actual application, sometimes a shortcut.

Sometimes what appears to be an application is a plugin embedded into the Microsoft Management Console, and sometimes an application is only presented when you click a button in another window. How do you right click on an application to "Run as..." if the application isn't presented in the interface?

It's not like you can browse the computer to find the application; that's off limits in Windows. And good luck doing a search; Windows' search function is a long joke with no punch line. You are only presented with the Program list in the Start menu, which is something akin to the Mac OS X Dock, but more difficult to customize, hidden away in the Start menu, and presented as a series of deeply nestled sub menus with maddening delays.

In Mac OS X, anytime you start an application, it appears in the Dock and changes the menubar; you can right click a Dock icon and ask it to "Show in Finder." Were it only so simple in Windows!

The main point however, is that in Mac OS X, non administrative users can install applications locally in their user context. You can theoretically do this in Windows, but installing an application for a single, non admin user is frequently broken in practice. Trying to run Windows according to least privilege policy is difficult at best, and often simply considered impractical, so nobody does it. This leaves Windows users unnecessarily vulnerable.


Flaw 4 - No signal of privilege escalation

An administrator in Mac OS X can act as root by authenticating. When a user installs an application that requires special privileges, they are prompted to enter an administrative password. This also reminds the user that they are delegating important security privileges to that application.

That level of trust is not required unless an application needs to install background services that run as privileged daemons, or installing to system level folders such as /Applications or /Library.

Not only is it excessively difficult to run Windows as anything but an administrator (as noted in the previous point), but once logged in as an administrator, Windows users are not prompted to authenticate when performing a root level administrative task.

Since everyone is running Windows as an administrator, malicious code has no problem getting installed, without Windows ever flagging the user that important security permissions have been handed out, particularly during an installation.

The result of multiplying flaws two, three, and four explains the current plague of viruses, adware, malware, spyware and other flavors of malicious code that are so easy for spam-based marketers to foist upon vulnerable Windows users. Unfortunately, these flaws are all deeply rooted both in Window's architecture and culture.

That's right, Windows has flaws that are not just technical problems (which are usually straightforward to solve), but are tied to Microsoft core nature. Microsoft is, and has always been, a marketing company that sells software products, or more precisely, sells ideas that may become products.

Bill Gates sold IBM the idea of MS DOS, then rushed to deliver it, and his company has been selling vaporware ideas for the last twenty five years. Microsoft only attempts to deliver a product when the licensing market cycle requires it. The company sells placeholder-ware; products described to fit a solution. Once the sale is made, then work on delivering the product is begun.

Windows itself was placeholder-ware; Microsoft wanted Apple to license the Mac system software for PCs; when they didn't, Microsoft announced they would themselves. Microsoft fudged a graphical analog on top of DOS, and ported their existing Mac Office apps to run on it, but they delivered Windows 95 over a decade after the Mac, despite starting Windows prior to the initial release of the Macintosh.

Windows NT was also placeholder-ware to solve a gap: the lack of a real operating system for Windows 3. After abandoning OS/2 development with IBM, Microsoft hired a technically savvy operating system guru and delivered Windows NT 3.5.

Microsoft avoids competition by pitting its placeholder-ware product definition against real products for sale in new and emerging markets. By instilling fear, uncertainty and doubt surrounding the threat of Microsoft's entry into the market, kowtowed market analysts advise customers to wait for Microsoft to fill in placeholder products. Meanwhile, the competition dies of starvation, and Microsoft begins work on developing, or buying, an acceptable product that rarely meets the originally promised feature set.

The security problem related to Microsoft's marketing driven focus is that the company is only interested in a market position until they own it. After establishing a monopoly, they lose interest in (and motivation for) ongoing development, particularly in the area of security flaws which do not result in features that drive the next version of their product.

For example, after leveraging their monopoly position to destroy Netscape as a competitor, Microsoft left internet Explorer to rot. The Mac version was entirely canned, and the Windows version grew stagnant.

Conversely, technology-driven companies seek to provide customers with solutions that fit their needs, and security is an important consideration. Microsoft's leading market position may make its products a more obvious security target, but the real problem is that Microsoft doesn't need to care about security because the are insulated from market realities.

Hopefully, serious competition from Linux on the server side, and Mac OS X on the desktop, will prompt Microsoft to take serious steps toward delivering not only technology fixes for its security problems, but also make the company reevaluate the value of its reputation as well, and make a business case for caring about the quality of the software they market.


Flaw 5 - Windows' expensive processes

Another problem for Windows is that launching a new process is expensive. While Unix was designed to be very efficient at spawning new processes, Windows NT was designed to handle parallel processing using multiple threads within a single process.

Creating a new process in Windows takes a "non trivial amount of time to launch, and each process consumes a fair amount of system resources," so Windows frequently tries to pack multiple services into a single shared service process to skimp on the number of expensive processes that have to be launched and maintained.

For example, svchost.exe is a single process in Windows that can be running 25 to 30 or more different services (a service in Windows is similar to a Unix daemon) as threads within the single process. In Mac OS X, one daemon is one process.

Shared services is an ugly catch-22 for Windows. On one hand, splitting services out into separate processes would eat up a lot of memory and performance; that's why they are shared in the first place. On the other hand, sharing the same process means all those processes run in the same address space and can interfere with each other. If one tanks, it brings down all the others, and likely the entire system too. It also kills the notion of protected memory, one of the primary goals of modern operating systems.

And because shared services are considered a necessary evil, services have developed dependencies upon running in a shared address space, much like a battered spouse that finds living with dysfunction easier than leaving.

That means even if you decide to take the performance hit and split services out into separate processes, they will likely no longer run properly and crash your machine.

So there you have it. The next time someone asks you about Windows' significant architectural flaws, you'll have something to talk about.
 
Jimbo said:
We do have a few Windows XP machines at work and they work OK for the most part. Of course, I've heard about virus and security problems and because of that I understand why I get the message that Windows has important security updates to install. It seems like every week I'm running these installs and rebooting.

We do use Macs for most of our stuff and these machines don't even have virus utilities installed. I've often wondered, is it really because of security-through-obscurity that keeps us Mac users devoid of these problems so prevalent in the Windows world?

I ran across this article that provides an excellent explanation (facts not hype) of the problem...

Five Architectural Flaws in Windows Solved In Mac OS X

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/Oct05.5Flaws.html

What was intended to be a short aside about Mac OS X's strengths turned into an entire series on Windows NT/2000/XP flaws! Here is the first of five examples of core Windows architectural problems that relate to process management, applications and security.

When writing the second article in the Wishlist for Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard series, I started by comparing ideas Apple that had borrowed from Windows, ideas they could borrow, and areas where Mac OS X was already ahead. The latter begat five articles, of which this is the first.

It is useful to understand why bad ideas are bad. It's also useful to identify how significant and difficult to solve a given problem is. This article tries to give a brief indication of why these design flaws are real and significant issues for Microsoft, and the real world problems they cause for Windows users.

I tried to limit the scope of this article to flaws related to process management and security. I've also separately written another article related to the Windows Registry that I'll be publishing soon. Without further ado, here is:

Flaw 1 - Windows' Interactive Services

Like all Unix distributions, Mac OS X spawns background system processes, called daemons, to handle various tasks. When a user logs into Mac OS X, a special security context is created for that user. Any applications that user launches are started under that user's credentials. Background processes can respond to requests from user-level applications, but they can not initiate any contact with the user, nor present any graphical interface, because they operate in a separate security context.

This is an important security measure that is missing in Windows, which allows for "interactive services." Allowing system processes running as root ("Services running as LocalSystem" in Windows-speak) to present a graphic UI to a logged in user ("become interactive with the desktop") is, to quote an MSDN blogger, a "spectacularly bad idea that should never have been added to the system."

Window's casual mix of security contexts makes it easy for malicious code to jump from the user's limited access realm into the root context, making it easy for a basic exploit to take over the entire machine. Exploiting this Windows-only flaw is called a Shatter Attack.

Three years ago, Microsoft replied to the threat of Shatter Attacks by stating that it was a known problem, and only offering that the inherently insecure and commonly used feature shouldn't be used (while citing earlier documentation that explained how to use it); that it only affected computers where a user could log in, such as a terminal server, or a workstation, or a server allowing logins (boggle!); and that, while a Shatter Attack could own your Terminal Server, it couldn't directly own the network. Of course, there are other security flaws to use once an exploit owns a trusted server.

Microsoft has decided to remove interactive services from Windows Vista (five years after the discovery became widely publicized), but this will break all the Windows services that currently use this insecure mechanism.

As a side note, Mac OS X's security edge over Windows in this example wasn't a product of hindsight; Apple just employed reasonable, known security principles. Shatter Attacks were exposed in 2002, the timeframe of Jaguar, after Apple had completed most of Mac OS X's security policy.

Flaw 2 - Windows' opaque and illogical file system presentation

Mac OS X applications and files are organized into clear, obvious security contexts.

Apple controls:
- system and support files in /System/Library

Machine administrators control:
- support files in local /Library
- applications in local /Applications
- documents in local / (root directory)

Users control:
- support files in /User/username/Library
- applications are installed in /User/username/Applications
- documents under /User/username/

Apple's convention of bundles, which present a folder and all of its contents as a file, renders individual Mac OS X applications as clean, uncluttered, self contained objects.

In Windows, the user, local and system contexts are muddied. Directories containing applications and settings are considered too confusing and dangerous to even display for users, so when a user tries to browse the file system, they are presented with:

These files are hidden. This folder contains files that keep your system working properly. You should not modify its contents.

Microsoft installs Windows into /WINDOWS, but the directory is mingled with third party additions, the problem that the reserved /System directory solves on Mac OS X.

Most programs install into /Program Files. Microsoft considers this folder too messy, confusing and dangerous to even display for users. Additionally, while Windows has lacked a limitation on file names for years, Windows applications are still a mess of cryptic 8.3 names, so that Internet Explorer is iexplore.exe and Outlook Express is msimn.exe.

Being messy and cryptic is not necessary, it is simply a Windows convention; Apple installs iTunes.exe and QuickTimePlayer.exe for Windows users.

Users have their own folders under /Documents and Settings/username/, but the Application Data and Local Settings folders (the equivalent to Mac OS X's ~/Library ) are both considered too confusing and dangerous to display. This is problematic for users, since that's where their cookies, caches, plug-ins, email and other stuff is saved.

Most of the user, application and machine settings are actually kept in the Windows Registry, which is even more complex and dangerous to allow users to access.

Windows' complexification further results in a file system layout that doesn't make logical sense. The user's desktop is presented as being the root directory, with everything inside it (My Computer, which contains drives; My Documents; etc.), but it's also presented elsewhere at its real location: /Documents and Settings/username/Desktop.

However, once a user navigates to the desktop, they can't go up a level to view their user directory. This results in shortcuts being put in the desktop directory (when viewed from a file browser) that don't necessarily appear on the desktop. What a mess!

It's easy to continue complaining about the illogical, inconsistent behaviors in Windows, but the key point is that Windows' opaque file system not only makes it hard to find things, but it also, more importantly, makes it easy for malicious code to hide things in a way that users can't easily monitor or defend against.

Flaw 3 - 'Least privilege' is impractical and broken

In the classic Mac OS (as with DOS), there was no concept of users or security. Users launched applications that could do anything. The system couldn't prevent users from deleting or overwriting critical files, and any application could stuff the System Folder full of Extensions that directly modified the system.

While a clean Mac install was pretty stable, once enough junk was installed, the system would lose stability and frequently crash, losing all unsaved data. It provided unbounded freedom through anarchy, and traded off security and stability for convenience and simplicity.

As computers joined networks, they were exposed to real external threats that demanded more attention to security. Unix, and later Windows NT, took somewhat similar approaches to providing this, by handing authority to a privileged kernel that preemptively scheduled tasks, restricted access to protected memory and other hardware, set ownership and permissions on files, and defined users with restricted privileges.

The capacity for restricted users allows applications and processes to run with the least amount of privilege necessary, so if they are compromised, anything that takes control is restricted in what damage it can cause.

Limited user privileges act like janitors in a high security building; they have enough security clearance to do their work, but are restricted from areas they don't need to enter. If someone were to steal their keys, they would still only have limited access within the building.

"Least privilege" is an important security principle that is poorly implemented in Windows. Part of the problem is sloppy programming by application developers, which demand excessive privileges when installing applications and consequently require users to have administrative privileges simply to run them. In Windows, the janitors have keys to everything. Pick a janitor's pocket, and you have free run of the entire building.

One method for making 'least privilege' feasible in Windows is the secondary sign-on feature. In Windows, a user can right click on an application and choose "Run As..." to execute the program as an administrative user, but this also runs the application in the admin user's environment, so that program can no longer see or access the current user's shares, personal files, or mounted drives. This frequently leaves the application improperly installed for non-admin users.

Running Windows under non-admin accounts is so difficult that one "Windows security expert" suggested that the idea of least privilege is a "red herring," and basically concluded that, since Windows' fragile notion of security is so easy to exploit anyway, why bother?

If Windows apologists demanded better security from Microsoft, instead of making excuses for the Church of Redmond and indoctrinating sheep-like submission into the Windows faithful, perhaps Microsoft would consider security a more important feature.

Another problem with using secondary sign-on, or "Run As...", to achieve least privilege is that the Windows interface confuses the definition of an application. Sometimes a control panel is a folder, sometimes its an actual application, sometimes a shortcut.

Sometimes what appears to be an application is a plugin embedded into the Microsoft Management Console, and sometimes an application is only presented when you click a button in another window. How do you right click on an application to "Run as..." if the application isn't presented in the interface?

It's not like you can browse the computer to find the application; that's off limits in Windows. And good luck doing a search; Windows' search function is a long joke with no punch line. You are only presented with the Program list in the Start menu, which is something akin to the Mac OS X Dock, but more difficult to customize, hidden away in the Start menu, and presented as a series of deeply nestled sub menus with maddening delays.

In Mac OS X, anytime you start an application, it appears in the Dock and changes the menubar; you can right click a Dock icon and ask it to "Show in Finder." Were it only so simple in Windows!

The main point however, is that in Mac OS X, non administrative users can install applications locally in their user context. You can theoretically do this in Windows, but installing an application for a single, non admin user is frequently broken in practice. Trying to run Windows according to least privilege policy is difficult at best, and often simply considered impractical, so nobody does it. This leaves Windows users unnecessarily vulnerable.


Flaw 4 - No signal of privilege escalation

An administrator in Mac OS X can act as root by authenticating. When a user installs an application that requires special privileges, they are prompted to enter an administrative password. This also reminds the user that they are delegating important security privileges to that application.

That level of trust is not required unless an application needs to install background services that run as privileged daemons, or installing to system level folders such as /Applications or /Library.

Not only is it excessively difficult to run Windows as anything but an administrator (as noted in the previous point), but once logged in as an administrator, Windows users are not prompted to authenticate when performing a root level administrative task.

Since everyone is running Windows as an administrator, malicious code has no problem getting installed, without Windows ever flagging the user that important security permissions have been handed out, particularly during an installation.

The result of multiplying flaws two, three, and four explains the current plague of viruses, adware, malware, spyware and other flavors of malicious code that are so easy for spam-based marketers to foist upon vulnerable Windows users. Unfortunately, these flaws are all deeply rooted both in Window's architecture and culture.

That's right, Windows has flaws that are not just technical problems (which are usually straightforward to solve), but are tied to Microsoft core nature. Microsoft is, and has always been, a marketing company that sells software products, or more precisely, sells ideas that may become products.

Bill Gates sold IBM the idea of MS DOS, then rushed to deliver it, and his company has been selling vaporware ideas for the last twenty five years. Microsoft only attempts to deliver a product when the licensing market cycle requires it. The company sells placeholder-ware; products described to fit a solution. Once the sale is made, then work on delivering the product is begun.

Windows itself was placeholder-ware; Microsoft wanted Apple to license the Mac system software for PCs; when they didn't, Microsoft announced they would themselves. Microsoft fudged a graphical analog on top of DOS, and ported their existing Mac Office apps to run on it, but they delivered Windows 95 over a decade after the Mac, despite starting Windows prior to the initial release of the Macintosh.

Windows NT was also placeholder-ware to solve a gap: the lack of a real operating system for Windows 3. After abandoning OS/2 development with IBM, Microsoft hired a technically savvy operating system guru and delivered Windows NT 3.5.

Microsoft avoids competition by pitting its placeholder-ware product definition against real products for sale in new and emerging markets. By instilling fear, uncertainty and doubt surrounding the threat of Microsoft's entry into the market, kowtowed market analysts advise customers to wait for Microsoft to fill in placeholder products. Meanwhile, the competition dies of starvation, and Microsoft begins work on developing, or buying, an acceptable product that rarely meets the originally promised feature set.

The security problem related to Microsoft's marketing driven focus is that the company is only interested in a market position until they own it. After establishing a monopoly, they lose interest in (and motivation for) ongoing development, particularly in the area of security flaws which do not result in features that drive the next version of their product.

For example, after leveraging their monopoly position to destroy Netscape as a competitor, Microsoft left internet Explorer to rot. The Mac version was entirely canned, and the Windows version grew stagnant.

Conversely, technology-driven companies seek to provide customers with solutions that fit their needs, and security is an important consideration. Microsoft's leading market position may make its products a more obvious security target, but the real problem is that Microsoft doesn't need to care about security because the are insulated from market realities.

Hopefully, serious competition from Linux on the server side, and Mac OS X on the desktop, will prompt Microsoft to take serious steps toward delivering not only technology fixes for its security problems, but also make the company reevaluate the value of its reputation as well, and make a business case for caring about the quality of the software they market.


Flaw 5 - Windows' expensive processes

Another problem for Windows is that launching a new process is expensive. While Unix was designed to be very efficient at spawning new processes, Windows NT was designed to handle parallel processing using multiple threads within a single process.

Creating a new process in Windows takes a "non trivial amount of time to launch, and each process consumes a fair amount of system resources," so Windows frequently tries to pack multiple services into a single shared service process to skimp on the number of expensive processes that have to be launched and maintained.

For example, svchost.exe is a single process in Windows that can be running 25 to 30 or more different services (a service in Windows is similar to a Unix daemon) as threads within the single process. In Mac OS X, one daemon is one process.

Shared services is an ugly catch-22 for Windows. On one hand, splitting services out into separate processes would eat up a lot of memory and performance; that's why they are shared in the first place. On the other hand, sharing the same process means all those processes run in the same address space and can interfere with each other. If one tanks, it brings down all the others, and likely the entire system too. It also kills the notion of protected memory, one of the primary goals of modern operating systems.

And because shared services are considered a necessary evil, services have developed dependencies upon running in a shared address space, much like a battered spouse that finds living with dysfunction easier than leaving.

That means even if you decide to take the performance hit and split services out into separate processes, they will likely no longer run properly and crash your machine.

So there you have it. The next time someone asks you about Windows' significant architectural flaws, you'll have something to talk about.

ok
 
Gee, thanks so much for quoting the entire post. :rolleyes:
 
Thank you for the post, it's a nice description on something that is very little know nor cared about by most users.

Having worked with Unix extensively in networked environments and working know with highly secure Windows Server 20003 ADS environment I can attest to most of these problems.
At the same time however, most of these problems can be solved by using security policies. This is a (sometimes extremely) complicated way of solving a problem that neither Unix nor Novell really had.

In retrospect, one can only say that Windows was not really development with a (inter)networked environment in mind and that Microsoft has simply let the problem continue to keep it dominance in the PC-market by making sure it's new OS's would still be compatible with the flawed older ones.
 
I have not tried using Mac OS yet. May consider buying it in the future. I always have problem with the current XP version. When I'm trying to open random movies sometimes windows encountered problem will pop up. This sometimes happen when I tried to copy some files to different harddisk. XP sucks. Third time I had my PC formatted this year and I lost many of photos I've taken. :frown:
 
I'm trying to figure out my next laptop....Mac or "PC"

I've never had a security problem on any of my PC's before, but who knows what can happen.
 
I know this post was rather long, but I found it interesting. I don't know as much about Win as I do the Mac - and this was the first article that explained the security problem at a fundamental level.

Splits...

You do know that it doesn't have to be a Mac OR PC choice. Since Apple adopted Intel processors you can have both. The laptops, Mac Minis and the iMacs use the Core Duos aka Yonah (soon to be Core Duo II aka Merom) while the desktop tower Mac Pros use the new Xeon aka Woodcrest. When you price like machines with Dell, the Macs are typically less expensive.

With Apple's Boot Camp - you can boot either the Mac OS or XP or....with Parallels Workstation utility you can run the Mac OS, XP, NT, Linux, OS2 simultaneously - and share files between OSes.

-Jim
 
splitz said:
I'm trying to figure out my next laptop....Mac or "PC"

I've never had a security problem on any of my PC's before, but who knows what can happen.
I've never had a security problem, either. I use anti-virus software and make sure it performs automatic updates, and I have a physical firewall through my router.

For me, the choice is a no-brainer. You can get a Windows PC for a lot cheaper, because of all the competition between brands. You can get a fully-configured desktop (including software and monitor) for under $300 for a basic machine and under $400 for a more advanced one, and a fully-configured notebook for about $200 more (with software but not monitor); you can't come anywhere near those prices with a Mac. And it's a whole lot easier to get help figuring out how to do things, since 95+ percent of the PCs are Windows machines. I've been using Dell PCs with Windows for many, many years, and I've been very happy with them.

Jimbo said:
You do know that it doesn't have to be a Mac OR PC choice. Since Apple adopted Intel processors you can have both.
It's true that you can run Windows on a Mac. However, you still have to take the same security measures that you would take on a Windows-based machine.

Here is an article on the subject from Thursday's New York Times:

BASICS
Weighing a Switch to a Mac

By THOMAS J. FITZGERALD

Published: August 10, 2006

Ten years ago, if you were a Windows user, the idea of switching to a Macintosh might not have seemed enticing. An abundance of new Windows software was arriving on store shelves, while the selection available to Mac users seemed to be falling behind, often relegated to a back corner of the same store.

Today the calculation is different. Apple Computer, through a series of transitions, has reinvented itself. With a new operating system, its own chain of retail stores, the iPod and now a new line of computers that run on Intel processors, this new and more mainstream Apple is catching the attention of Windows users, and many are curious about switching.

But is switching a good idea? The answer, as always, depends on the needs and preferences of the user. Apple’s move to Intel processors has made it easier to run Windows on Intel-based Macs, and thus any software a switcher may want to continue using. But even with that ability, there are pluses and minuses to consider.

Software

The center of the Macintosh experience is Apple’s operating system, Mac OS X. With Unix at its foundation, Mac OS X is more stable, secure and open than previous Mac platforms, and the current version, called Tiger, offers features not included in Windows. More than 12,000 software applications have been developed to run on the Mac OS X platform since it was introduced in 2001, according to Apple, including popular programs like Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop, the Firefox Web browser and many from Apple.

But the world of Mac software is still smaller than what is available in the Windows world. A Windows user curious about switching needs to take an inventory of applications and determine what options are available in the Mac world to accomplish the same. Mac software is likely to be available for most mainstream applications; some may be included on a new Mac and others may require a separate purchase.

Other important applications, especially in categories like business software and games, may run only on Windows. This is where the new Intel-based Macs can make a difference: because they use the same hardware architecture as Windows-based PC’s, called x86, the experience of running Windows on a Mac is much improved.

Two methods for running Windows on the new Macs have moved to the forefront, and both run considerably faster than Virtual PC, the leading option under the old Mac architecture. The first, a new program called Parallels Desktop for Mac ($80; www.parallels.com), enables you to run Windows and Mac OS X Tiger simultaneously. For example, you can run Windows software like Internet Explorer and Microsoft Outlook in a window that can be minimized just like other Mac programs. Data can be copied between the platforms, you can share files and folders between them and you can choose to run Windows in a full-screen mode.

Parallels can run Windows versions as old as Windows 3.1 and through the current editions of XP. You will need to provide your own Windows installation software. A drawback of Parallels is that it does not support 3-D-accelerated graphics, which means some higher-end 3-D games and other programs run slowly or not well. Other factors to consider are a speed reduction of 5 to 15 percent compared with running Windows natively on Intel-based computers, the company says, and the fact that not all peripheral devices are compatible.

The other option for running Windows on the new Macs is made possible by Boot Camp (www.apple.com/bootcamp), a free utility from Apple now available in beta testing. (Apple announced this week that Boot Camp would be part of its next operating-system release, called Leopard, scheduled for next spring.) Unlike Parallels, which runs Windows within Mac OS X, Boot Camp creates a partition on the computer’s hard disk and installs Windows to it. When the computer starts up, you can choose to run either Windows or Mac OS X.

Benefits of Boot Camp include running Windows at full speed; it runs natively on the Mac, as it would on a conventional Windows-based PC, fully using the processor and graphics abilities, and providing compatibility with hardware peripherals and devices designed for PC’s.

A drawback of Boot Camp, though, is that you must shut down one operating system before using the other. This means you cannot run Windows and Mac applications simultaneously. Another drawback is that it can run only two versions of Windows: Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2, which costs $200, or Windows XP Professional With Service Pack 2, which is $300.

Security is another aspect of Macs that has Windows users curious. In Windows, antivirus and antispyware programs have become essential for defending against a variety of threats. So far, the Mac OS X operating system has not been infiltrated by viruses, and it remains free from the type of spyware threats that spread in the wild and go after Windows users, according to Symantec, maker of Norton Antivirus.

But when Windows is run on Intel-based Macs, for example through Boot Camp or Parallels, it is vulnerable to the same virus and spyware threats that can affect conventional Windows-based PC’s.

Hardware

The physical designs of Apple’s desktop and notebook computers are often innovative. The iMac, for example, is a space-saving desktop unit with an all-in-one enclosure that conceals the computer’s components behind the monitor. And the MacBook, a new notebook with a glossy screen, includes a new keyboard layout. This week, the company introduced the Mac Pro, a line of desktops replacing the Power Mac, completing its transition to Intel chips.

But while Apple’s selection covers much ground, it is less diverse than what is available from companies like Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Sony and Lenovo. For example, Apple does not offer ultraportable notebooks, a tablet design or as wide a choice in processor types and speeds. And when it comes to pricing, Apple no longer offers notebooks in the sub-$1,000 range, or desktop units in the sub-$500 range, as do other makers.

Consideration should also be given to the compatibility of any devices like printers, external hard drives and cellphones that may be connected to a computer. In some instances, only Windows may be supported.

The Switching Experience

I spoke with a number of Windows users who had recently switched to Macs. Their reasons varied, but their experiences had some notable similarities. In many cases, since they had mastered Windows long ago, learning the Mac interface, essentially from scratch, took more time than expected. Also, many switchers retained strong links to the Windows world, often through computers at their workplace or older units at home.

Danielle Wang, 26, of Austin, Tex., bought her first Mac six weeks ago. She took the advice of a friend and decided to buy a MacBook to replace her Windows-based laptop, a Sony Vaio, which she said had been stolen.

Early in the transition, Ms. Wang said, it took time to get used to the Mac interface; the menus, the location of buttons and other items were different. “It was difficult,” she said. “The first three days, I was constantly thinking about returning it.”

Ms. Wang uses the MacBook mainly for applications like e-mail, Web browsing, digital music, games and instant messaging; so far, she has not encountered problems finding Mac software, and she still maintains access to Windows-based computers for other programs she prefers to use at home.

In comparing the MacBook and the Vaio, she said the graphics were clearer on the Sony.

“The Sony Vaio is more lively,” she said. But she prefers the look and design of the MacBook.

Over all, Ms. Wang is glad she switched. She likes the Mac interface and says she is likely to remain a Mac owner for the foreseeable future. “It was the right decision,” she said. “I really love my Mac right now.”
 
The only reason I'm thinking about switching is I know a Microsoft employee who is a regional manager that swears by his 3 Macs. If this guy has been an employee of the evil empire for over 15 years and has made the switch maybe Stevey boy has something Billy is missing.
 
This isn't directed ar nsxtacy, it's at the article writers...

I hate when they include opinions of commonfolk and report on it as if it is fact. They never actually showed whether graphics were 'clearer' on the VAIO or MacBook. They printed some lady's word and now hundreds of people are going to interpret that as mac's having bad screens, when that isn't the case.



nsxtasy said:
Ms. Wang uses the MacBook mainly for applications like e-mail, Web browsing, digital music, games and instant messaging; so far, she has not encountered problems finding Mac software, and she still maintains access to Windows-based computers for other programs she prefers to use at home.

In comparing the MacBook and the Vaio, she said the graphics were clearer on the Sony.

“The Sony Vaio is more lively,” she said. But she prefers the look and design of the MacBook.

Over all, Ms. Wang is glad she switched. She likes the Mac interface and says she is likely to remain a Mac owner for the foreseeable future. “It was the right decision,” she said. “I really love my Mac right now.”
 
Apple is junk. I told you guys earlier this week to get ready to short their stock. It's down almost 4 points since then and I believe it's heading down to about 40 or so. Mr. Fibonacci never lies. :)

Ipods will be rendered useless and obsolete within the next year or two by cell phones with built in MP3 players and can take large capacity, high speed mini-SD cards and the like. Why carry around an iPOd when your cell phone can do the same thing and even be programmed to notifiy you if an incoming call comes in.

Sure Macs are less prone to security issues than Windows PCs. Who really gives a shit? Buy a $40 router with a hardware firewall and for all intents and purposes you're invisible to anyone on the Internet. Any name brand Anti-Virus software will keep things running nice and smooth. Panda and PC-Cillin are two of the best. Norton and Mcaffee suck.

Have you ever tried buying software for a Mac? LOL. There is virtually nothing available. Not to mention the silly things cost an arm and a leg.

I'll repeat myself. Short AAPL or if that makes you a bit nervous buy some puts. In the money Octobers are definitely worth a shot.
 
Hugh said:
Apple is junk. I told you guys earlier this week to get ready to short their stock. It's down almost 4 points since then and I believe it's heading down to about 40 or so. Mr. Fibonacci never lies. :)

I'll repeat myself. Short AAPL or if that makes you a bit nervous buy some puts. In the money Octobers are definitely worth a shot.

Oh no...

Hey Carguy!! Wanna play a game called short squeeze?? :biggrin:

Fibonacci Schmibonacci, you'll make more trading munis listening to the morning traffic report. :rolleyes: :tongue:

If MSFT keeps delaying Vista, AAPL may actually have enough time to gain a critical mass and challenge in operating systems. They're getting smoked right now, since no one is buying PCs until the OS is available.
 
My own experience with windows/Macs has been lopsided:

I've owned 3 windows machines and one Mac in the past 5 years. Each windows machine was incredibly unreliable, attacked like crazy by viruses (i had up to date anti-virus) and they became obsolete much faster. The Vaio I had was around $3,000 too. The only problem I've had with my mac ever was a battery going de-funked on me. An apple rep drove from cleveland and picked my battery/computer up from my house and delivered it back in 2 days with a new battery free of charge.

I've personally never found a piece of software that doesn't run on mac's. Maybe we're just in different fields :p

---

I doubt phones are going to carry 60GB harddrives yet. Maybe I just havent seen that phone yet. Ipods will still be very useful. Those phones may work fine for 100 or so songs... but I won't be buying one. Hopefully Apple will get their phone out in the next century, lol.

---

oh - and remember, anti-virus programs work by being updated regularly by the manufacturer as they find out new viruses. If your anti-virus is out of date by even a single day, it's possible to just not catch the newest viruses for a while until the next update.

---

Also - I find it interesting that some (no one in this thread so far) people bash Apple as being too 'trendy' and 'over-designed'... as if a machine looking as good as it runs is a crime. Windows is trying to copy this philosophy now with the release of Vista and the Vista Industrial Design Toolkit: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060731-7391.html I know alot of hardware designers weren't happy with this, because it takes away some of the features that make a Dell a Dell, or a Gateway a Gateway. Anywho - Windows is trying to be more like Apple. I wonder why?
 
rickysals said:
This isn't directed ar nsxtacy, it's at the article writers...

I hate when they include opinions of commonfolk and report on it as if it is fact. They never actually showed whether graphics were 'clearer' on the VAIO or MacBook. They printed some lady's word and now hundreds of people are going to interpret that as mac's having bad screens, when that isn't the case.
I'm surprised you attack the article for that aspect of her quotes. In both your posts, you sound very defensive about the Mac, like you're ready to attack anything that is not in the slightest way extremely positive. I thought the article was very balanced. And to me, that woman's quotes sounded very pro-Mac (in a somewhat muddled sort of way).
 
nsxtasy said:
“The Sony Vaio is more lively,” she said. But she prefers the look and design of the MacBook.

And i prefer a citroen over a honda because they look more modern & european. :rolleyes:

This kind of reasoning doesn't make a Macbook better than a PC - it's personal preference. And thats the problem of the entire Mac vs PC debate -- it's personal preference.


ski_banker: i thought your visual gag was funny.

Back to the topic: Windows *HAS* security?! :eek: :confused: :biggrin:
 
nsxtasy said:
I'm surprised you attack the article for that aspect of her quotes. In both your posts, you sound very defensive about the Mac, like you're ready to attack anything that is not in the slightest way extremely positive. I thought the article was very balanced. And to me, that woman's quotes sounded very pro-Mac (in a somewhat muddled sort of way).


I agree with your assessment of me, and the article. I'm not being published in a mac vs pc comparo by a magazine though.

I'm a mac guy :p
 
Hugh said:
Ipods will be rendered useless and obsolete within the next year or two by cell phones with built in MP3 players and can take large capacity, high speed mini-SD cards and the like. Why carry around an iPOd when your cell phone can do the same thing and even be programmed to notifiy you if an incoming call comes in.
Those phones, except for the Apple branded one that will arrive sooner or later, won't work with the iTunes Music Store. And the 1,000,000,000+ tracks that have already been sold by the iTMS won't work with anything except an iPod.

That and the fact that so far only Apple seems to 'get it' when it comes to industrial design, user interface, and marketing for the masses of MP3 player consumers makes me think the iPod has some legs left.

As for software, I can't imagine what doesn't exist for the Mac to satisfy 99% of the computing public. A large part of what nearly everyone will ever needs comes with the computer.

Stock prices? Who gives a damn? Not me, that's for sure. I spent decades watching Apple stock hover in the dumpster. This latest rise, fueled by their iPods and consumer level machines, could last or not. Through it all the company has made money and with the exception of a few bleak years, has never been in serious trouble. I'm not worried about Apple.

And you can have my MacBook Pro when you pry my cold dead fingers from its really really hot frame! :biggrin:
 
Bodypainter / Hugh:

Gentlemen, the only way this IPod/MP3/Phone debate is going to be resolved is if we convince Jonathan to distribute free IRiver MP3 players to all current NSX owners for product testing. :biggrin:
 
I have used the free version of AVG anti-virus for years. It has protected me all these year without a major infection. I agree with Hugh that Norton and Mcaffee are not that good. They can do a good job at protecting you but at a cost of being a resource hog eating up memory and interupting your processes. And as far as spyware the new second beta of Windows Defender does a great job of keeping the pests out of your pC. The bigest protection of Spyware is the new 3rd beta of IE7. It is stable and does a great job of not lettting activeX psyware to be installed. NSXtasy make a good point, that he keeps his Antivirus dat files or database up to date. When I helpout familiy or friends or even a side job I find most of the time the antivirus files are either outdated or the software is expired. So it is making pointless scans if any scans for Viruses at all. This is why I use the free verison, never expires and it will scann when you schedule it.

www.free.grisoft.com

I think one of the reasons Windows is such a target is becuase the majority of the world uses it. :wink:
 
docmarmo said:
I think one of the reasons Windows is such a target is becuase the majority of the world uses it. :wink:

The purpose of my original post was to dispute that premise. I no longer believe this to be the case. I think there's inherent structural reasons why hackers can exploit the Windows architecture. With all the recent press on this subject, some hacker would be highly motivated to compromise a Mac, just to show that it's possible.
 
Ski_Banker said:
Oh no...

Hey Carguy!! Wanna play a game called short squeeze??


Sure, go ahead and start squeezing genius.

AAPL has 842 Million shares in the float. 24 Million shares are short.

Oh and by the way, insiders own only 1.48% of the stock. What a huge vote of confidence that is.

And lookie here! The only thing selling faster than Apple insiders dumping their stock is AK-47 ammunition in Baghdad.
 
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