NSX style originally from Ferrari??

[Yawwn]

Hi All,
I had gone on an exotic car rally a few months back, where there were many Ferraris. One of the guys mentioned to me that the NSX was originally a design by Ferrari back in 1986, called the Ferrari 408 Integrale. It was then copied by Subaru, and then by Honda. Someone even suggested that Honda copied the Subaru XT design, rather than the Ferrari Integrale design.

Here is a pic of the Ferrari...
http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/21/1869.jpg

Are they speculating, or is this true?
I can understand that Honda was looking at all types of designs from many manufacturers, but it was implied that the Integrale was THE style that Honda used. However, when I look at the picture, I find this hard to believe, since I would never own a car that looks like that.

If this statement is true about the Ferrari styling, then all of these discussions about "souls" in cars will need to be taken to another level.

 

[DocL]

Very interesting thread that you have started, because it points us in a direction that not many people are aware of. Many car designs are not developed in-house, andmost of the designs on the road are penned by the same designers such as Bertone, Pinninfarina, Zagato, Italdesign, Seat, etc. I have been to all of the aforementioned studios and I was very surprised by what I learned. The Italians very clearly have a talent for designing some of the best cars known, and even some lesser known items such as pens and coffee makers.

I don't have the strength to write about everything that I saw, but looking at the picture that you linked to it clearly shows an Italian design behind the NSX.

 

[rcarlos]

There is not enough info there to say how much of the NSX was copied from that Ferrari.
The Ferrari is butt ugly. The windows don't roll down fully. The body materials are unknown. The mechanicals are unknown.
Though for a car penned in 1869 the Ferrari is pretty much the technological triumph of the 19th century.

[This message has been edited by rcarlos (edited 19 October 2001).]

 

[Nsxotic]

I had gotten into a discussion about a year ago on Ferrari's boards about this. I didn't believe it then and still don't... It's just Ferrari guys looking for a way to justify why they like the NSX without really admitting it and still staying 'loyal' to their Ferraris.

------------------
Todd Arnold

http://www.geocities.com/nsxcessive/index.html

 

[nsx808]

I think they saw a *slight* resemblence and figured they would brag some more about their heritage and how no 'jap' car company could come out with a design that rival Pinninfarina.

But you'd have to squint your eyes and stand back from the computer monitor about 20 feet to see that resemblence.

 

[ilya]

I recall it being mentioned by quite a few articles that Ferrari was one of the companies Honda took styling cues from.
Maybe some of us don't like to admit it, just like some Corvette owners don't like to admit the C5 design borrows from the NSX.
That picture aside, it's obvious to me that a number of styling cues on the NSX where taken from Ferrari designs. What's wrong with that? Ferraris are beautiful cars. I don't understand the negativity.

 

[DocL]

A little more FYI, but Pinninfarina designed a beautiful roadster for Honda (Argento Vivo) in 1995 as a prototype that looks very similar to the BMW Z8. Just because one manufacturer doesn't use a design, it doesn't mean that another one can't take cue's from it. It clearly looks like that the NSX has some simalarities to the picture of discussion here which looks like it was designed by Bertone.

 

[jag]

I can see the resemblance. There just seems to be too many simularities to be a coincidence... the ridges on the hood near the fenders, the pop up headlights out of the ridges, the opening and turn signal positions in the front, the side scoops, the wedge shape and higher back end. If honda did use this as their inspiration for the NSX, I think they did a magical transformation from an ugly duckling to a beautiful swan.

 

[NUK3M]

i believe Ferrari are building a V12 roadster that looks like a beefed up S2000

on a side note, didnt one of the (jap)designers of the RSX work with Pininfarina design house?

 

[Yawwn]

This is the link for the forum discussion where it was mentioned that the NSX was originally derived from Ferrari designs...
http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/21/1834.html?#POST9887

I agree that the design of the NSX was a vast improvement of the Ferrari 408 prototype. But if Honda had inspiration from any manufacturer, Ferrari would be the ideal choice.

 

[mclaren-honda]

Originally posted by Yawwn:
This is the link for the forum discussion where it was mentioned that the NSX was originally derived from Ferrari designs...
http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/21/1834.html?#POST9887

I agree that the design of the NSX was a vast improvement of the Ferrari 408 prototype. But if Honda had inspiration from any manufacturer, Ferrari would be the ideal choice.

Pininfarina, the primary carrozzeria (styling house) used by Ferrari (I do not believe that they have in house designers), has had a long standing relationship with Honda that dates back to the early to mid 1980's (the book I was going to reference has been packed away, sorry). The concept, mentioned in an earlier post that they did for the S2K is an example. I remember reading somewhere, i'll try to dig up the reference, that Honda turned to Pininfarina in the early phases in the NSX concept development. If you find a photo of the Pininfarina Mythos concept car (1989, i think) you will see some NSX styling cues, especially the rear clip. Honda is hush, hush about the work they farm out so that is why it is not very well known. It is not uncommon to require design consultants to keep the identity of their clients confidential.

 

[mclaren-honda]

Originally posted by Yawwn:
This is the link for the forum discussion where it was mentioned that the NSX was originally derived from Ferrari designs...
http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/21/1834.html?#POST9887

I agree that the design of the NSX was a vast improvement of the Ferrari 408 prototype. But if Honda had inspiration from any manufacturer, Ferrari would be the ideal choice.

Pininfarina, the primary carrozzeria (styling house) used by Ferrari (I do not believe that they have in house designers), has had a long standing relationship with Honda that dates back to the early to mid 1980's (the book I was going to reference has been packed away, sorry). The concept, mentioned in an earlier post that they did for the S2K is an example. I remember reading somewhere, i'll try to dig up the reference, that Honda turned to Pininfarina in the early phases in the NSX concept development. If you find a photo of the Pininfarina Mythos concept car (1989, i think) you will see some NSX styling cues, especially the rear clip. Honda is hush, hush about the work they farm out so that is why it is not very well known. It is not uncommon to require design consultants to keep the identity of their clients confidential.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Pininfarina worked on the Honda HP-X in the eighties and I read in one of my NSX books (the "Performane Portfolio" I guess) that the NSX was inspired by the HP-X.

I said "Really?", I looked for it and it is soo ugly!

The NSX is soooo beautiful instead...

Some link:
http://www.grandprixmodels.co.uk/shop/jpgsrc/BAN009.jpg (very small photo)
http://www.conceptcarz.com/carChosen.asp?car_id=2397
http://www.pininfarina.it/eng/history/tappe3.htm

The same happened between the Argento Vivo and the S2000, but here both are quite beautiful!

 

[Kevin Kipper]

If you ask me, the picture at the top of this thread is just a photoshop job. The A-pillar isn't the same on the left side as it is on the right side, the side windows aren't identical, and the B-pillar areas aren't either. Am I missing something here?

 

[nsxbadboy]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
Pininfarina worked on the Honda HP-X in the eighties and I read in one of my NSX books (the "Performane Portfolio" I guess) that the NSX was inspired by the HP-X.

I said "Really?", I looked for it and it is soo ugly!

The NSX is soooo beautiful instead...

Some link:
http://www.grandprixmodels.co.uk/shop/jpgsrc/BAN009.jpg (very small photo)
http://www.conceptcarz.com/carChosen.asp?car_id=2397
http://www.pininfarina.it/eng/history/tappe3.htm

The same happened between the Argento Vivo and the S2000, but here both are quite beautiful!

The 2000 Rossa in that third link is a nice looking roadster.I wouldnt mind that coming into production.

Joe



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97 NSX-T
93 Supra TT BPU+

 

[gheba_nsx]

nsxbadboy,
it does not look bad but I think it would not fit the current Ferrari line. It is really too a "prototype" car (like the Mythos was).
I think that to enter production it would need some relevant change.

More photos: http://www.barchetta.cc/GT1/rossa/

 

[bruce91nsx]

Reviving an old thread... but i did several searches and couldn't find any info about this on Prime.
The real inspiration for the NSX design, I think, was the MG-EXE in about 1985. At the time, it seems, Honda had a relationship with MG... something about designing a civic-like MG.
I found two good Web resources for thishttp://austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?axeemailsf.htm and several photos. The similarity is striking. The engine -- a 6 cylinder 3 liter -- later was used in an MG rally Metro (i think) and developed 400 hp NA.

From designer Roy Axe:
"I owned a Ferrari 308GT at the time and felt that a sports car of this type updating the Ferrari and showing that England was just as capable of producing a car with world wide appeal, would do the trick. Marketing were against the idea as ARG did not make such cars and that it would prove to be a sales distraction.

Harold Musgrove was enthusiastic but also was aware of the marketing position and felt the project had to many downsides to go ahead as a full project. After discussions, however, it was agreed that we should proceed with the design aiming for the Geneva show of 1984 as a target. The model was to be made more credible by creating a chassis and mechanical spec to compliment the styling and the engine chosen was the one being developed for the Metro rally car. Spen King from the Gaydon experimental department was brought in to work out the chassis details and we in design worked with Spen to develop a proposal...."
"....
The visual goal was for a sports GT of generally Ferrari 308 size and proportions but with a totally unique look . We decided that the MG name was the only appropriate one to use and that E followed F as a logical type name. I am an aircraft enthusiast and a follower of military aircraft style, if that is the right term. I was very impressed by the F16 Falcon fighter with its command pilot position and surrounding bubble canopy and this was the inspiration I gave to the design team. The design manager for the exterior of the project was Gordon Sked and the small team of designers included some new college grads and Gerry McGovern who was new to the company having joined from Peugeot. Gerry had been hired by me directly from school as something of an experiment years earlier at Chrysler UK."

 

[satan_srv]

whoa...here's another pic google image found

 

[bruce91nsx]

And another... remarkable!

I don't recall seeing who was on the design team for the NSX... is it possible that MG and Honda shared a designer?

 

[clarknm]

Whomever the inspiration was, the NSX is far better looking than them all . That's seems just about right to me..

 

[fayaar]

What about the Nissan MID4 as previously discussed here?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

seems like the Gen2 MR2 looks much like this Nissan.

For nsx, I don't know where to find pics, I believed there was a gull wing prototype Mercedes and the BMW Aztec c2? are kind of like the nsx too..

My take on similaries is that Car designs and Body kits are really a kind of fashion, so there's trend in certain "eras", thus something look hot in the particular era would found its place in a lot of designs... European manufacturers generally are more brave to introduce "new fashion" and setting trends, unfortunately, just like the fashion world...

 

[Spinner]

Just to clarify...YES, THE NSX WAS LOOSELY BASED OFF THE FERRARI 408. My instructor (one of the chief designers for Honda N. America) confirmed this. They used it as a inspirational starting point. Sure it looks ugly as hell, but remember, that car (408) was designed in 1980-1981.

 

[Spinner]

another pic

 

[docjohn]

I see lancia stratos in some of those.I'm sure many of the midengine designs of the time were reviewed.Hopefully this first 15 years of the nsx design will be the progenitor for beginning a long evolution of midengine sportscars from honda.