• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

NSX VS F355

Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
26 September 2000
Messages
2,979
Location
671
I downloaded the movie but there's no picture, only sound...

------------------
Richard
www.kuentos.guam.net/home/superg/nsxtasy.htm
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
14 January 2001
Messages
3
Location
Fresno, CA; The United States
Ferrari F355 has much stronger engine if we believe Ferrari claims. Its 375hp should have an edge over the NSX's 290hp in C32B. However, Ferrari loses much more of it's steam at wheels. Here on the nsxprime web page I saw the link to a dyno shop where several NSXs and a F355 were tested. The F355 had about 298hp at the wheels while the best NSX 269hp. It means that the NSX loses just 21hp while F355 77hp.... It is not a surprise for me that in most of the tests the cars perform similarily as the difference of the power at wheels is not such big.
If Ferrari had the same efficiency of the powertrain as the NSX, it would have about 354hp at the wheels and probably no problems to outgun the NSX. Going further if the NSX had the same efficiency as the Ferrari, it would deliver just 213hp to the wheels, not much more than the S2000's 206hp at the wheels.
Most of sources say about percentage lost. Motor Trend claims that the car loses 20% of the power going to the wheels, however, this is not true. If a car has 300hp at crank and 270 at wheels, it means that it loses 30hp and not 10% although mathematically it matches. The same powertrain (gearbox, axles etc.) with engine delivering 400hp at crank will deliver 370 to the wheels. The same situation with less powerfull engines. That's the way the resistance works on engine. Air conditioning will always take away about 10hp, doesn't matter if this is a Civic Si or an NSX assuming that they use the same air conditioning system. That's why we can feel the sudden loss of breath in a Civic 1.6 115hp when we turn the AC on, while we do not feel the same effect (to this degree at least) in a car like NSX or anything else having much stronger engine.

Regards,



------------------
Grzes
NSX No.000815
http://connect.to/power_planet
 

Number9

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
25 November 2000
Messages
704
Check http://www.dynospotracing.com and click on the dyno results link. We had a dyno day event out here which included a 355 ragtop and various NSXs. A later tester S/C NSX was much stronger than the Ferrari. All results appear to be normalized (i.e., not raw but corrected #'s).

--twc
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
4 February 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
Drivetrain losses are primarily due to inefficiencies in transmitting power through each set of gears in the transmission, not because of accessories (like A/C) which remain off during dyno testing. And those losses do generally apply as a percentage, not as an absolute value. The 11 percent lost in the NSX is about as efficient as any car around.

I suspect that the Ferrari is about as efficient as the NSX, but that Ferrari's claims of hp at the crank are overstated.
 

Number9

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
25 November 2000
Messages
704
I respectfully disagree. No reason you can't set up an NSX to be both reliable and have higher HP than a 355. For less money to boot. (BTW, I spoke at length with the owner of the 355 tested at dynospot and his specimen has been totally reliable - he also happened to be a former NSX owner so he should be in a position to objectively note any differences.)

--twc
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
14 November 2000
Messages
9
Location
Rockville Md
OOPS. Don't get me wrong Number9. Both are wonderful cars. When young and unattached I had the pleasure of a 330 2+2 (single head light model). To me nothing will ever compare to the sound of that 12 cylinder getting up on the cam. It just seems to me that the Ferrari's "show their wear" rather quickly and the maintenance costs are now beyond me.

My opinion is the NSX delivers a much more cost effective "exotic car experience" for a daily driver.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
14 January 2001
Messages
3
Location
Fresno, CA; The United States
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Drivetrain losses are primarily due to inefficiencies in transmitting power through each set of gears in the transmission, not because of accessories (like A/C) which remain off during dyno testing.

FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY. ANSWERING: IT DEPENDS.... EVEN HERE ON THE WEB PAGE I SAW THE RESULTS WITH A/C ON. I QUOTED IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF COURSE. IF YOU TURN ON THE LIGHTS IN A CAR OR A STEREO IT WILL ALSO ABSORB SOME POWER...

And those losses do generally apply as a percentage, not as an absolute value. The 11 percent lost in the NSX is about as efficient as any car around.

I DISAGREE WITH YOU. TRANSMISSION AND ALL THE OTHER DRIVETRAIN COMPONENTS PUT A RESISTANCE ON THE CAR'S ENGINE. YOU CAN CALCULATE THEM IN PERCANTAGE OF THE CAR'S POWER OF COURSE, BUT YOU CANNOT USE IOT TOWARDS ALL THE CARS. FROM YOUR UNDERSTANDING EVERY CAR SHOULD LOSE ABOUT 11%, SO ITR, WHICH IS RATED AT 195HP SHOULD GENERATE ABOUT 174HP AT WHEELS. I HAVE NEVER SEEN ITR GENERATING THAT MUCH. MOST OF THEM GENERATE ABOUT 160-165HP WHAT WOULD BE 15-18% OF POWER LOST.... BUT LOOK IT IS ALSO ABOUT 30-35HP LOST IN ITR.
THE NSX C30A1 GENERATES ABOUT 240HP AT WHEELS WHAT IS ABOUT 11% FOR ITS POWER. AND IT IS....ABOUT 30HP LOST 9 IN THAT CAE EXACTLY 30HP)
I KNOW FROM THE SAME SOURCES OF TESTS 9 WHERE THE NSX AND F355 WERE TESTED) THAT SUPRA TURBO GENERATES ABOUT 290HP AT WHEELS WHAT WOULD BE 9,5% LOST OR AGAIN ABOUT 30HP....THE SUPERA IS SUPPOSED TO GENERATE 320HP AT CRANK. THIS IS VERY EASY IF YOU LOOK AT THIS FROM THE PHYSICS POINT OF VIEW. YOU TAKE AWAY POWER BUT PUTTING ANY RESISTANCE ON THE CAR, WHATEVER IT IS A CAR'S TRANSMISSION , A/C OR ANYTHING ELSE.

I suspect that the Ferrari is about as efficient as the NSX, but that Ferrari's claims of hp at the crank are overstated.

I ASKED ABOUT IT TOO AND THE GUYS WHO TESTED THESE CARS TOLD ME, THAT FERRARI'S EXHAUST SYSTEM IN STREET VERSION ISN'T THAT EFFICIENT AND THIS IS WHY IT LOSES THAT MUCH POWER. IT WOULD RATHER SUPPORT YOUR OPINION THAT FERRARI'S CLAIM IS OVERSTATED.

REGARDS



------------------
Grzes
NSX No.000815
http://connect.to/power_planet
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
4 February 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
The 11 percent lost in the NSX is about as efficient as any car around.

I DISAGREE WITH YOU. TRANSMISSION AND ALL THE OTHER DRIVETRAIN COMPONENTS PUT A RESISTANCE ON THE CAR'S ENGINE. YOU CAN CALCULATE THEM IN PERCANTAGE OF THE CAR'S POWER OF COURSE, BUT YOU CANNOT USE IOT TOWARDS ALL THE CARS. FROM YOUR UNDERSTANDING EVERY CAR SHOULD LOSE ABOUT 11%


No, that's not what I said. I said The 11 percent lost in the NSX is about as efficient as any car around. That means that some cars may be MUCH LESS efficient than 11 percent, which (based on your description) the ITR is, but no production car is going to be MUCH MORE efficient (for example, 3 percent or 5 percent efficient). A difference of 1.5 percent (such as you note with the Supra) is "about as efficient" as the NSX, IMO. If you consider that to be much more efficient, well, I suppose that's just a difference in our opinions about the words you and I use to describe a 1.5 percent difference.

Thanks for providing the additional numbers. Very helpful.
cool.gif


[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 20 January 2001).]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
17 February 2000
Messages
2,492
Location
San Francisco, CA
Originally posted by Grzes:


I KNOW FROM THE SAME SOURCES OF TESTS 9 WHERE THE NSX AND F355 WERE TESTED) THAT SUPRA TURBO GENERATES ABOUT 290HP AT WHEELS WHAT WOULD BE 9,5% LOST OR AGAIN ABOUT 30HP....THE SUPERA IS SUPPOSED TO GENERATE 320HP AT CRANK. THIS IS VERY EASY IF YOU LOOK AT THIS FROM THE PHYSICS POINT OF VIEW. YOU TAKE AWAY POWER BUT PUTTING ANY RESISTANCE ON THE CAR, WHATEVER IT IS A CAR'S TRANSMISSION , A/C OR ANYTHING ELSE.


Who is your source? I was the organizer for the dyno event at dynospot. I have few SUpra friends as well. From my understanding, those supra owners get 290 RWHP from the stock engine with a pulled hose. That give additional HP for Supra. While, my friends Supra (2 of them) dyno stock at 270ish RWHP. The other owners that I know off never really dyno their car stock. Don't believe everything they say, until u see, and know it for yourself.

Those Dyno guys might not know what the owner of the car have actually done.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
14 January 2001
Messages
3
Location
Fresno, CA; The United States
I suppose that's just a difference in our opinions about the words you and I use to describe a 1.5 percent difference.

PROBABLY YOU ARE RIGHT, BUT YOU KNOW, THE HP LOST IN ITR DOES NOT SEEM TO BE EVEN CLOSE TO THE NSX OR SUPRA IN PERCANTAGE VALUE. AND I AM PRETTY SURE THAT 1000HP ENGINE (AT WHEELS) WILL GENERATE ABOUT 1030HP AT CRANK WITH THE SAME TRANSMISSION (LET'S ASSUME THIS IS POSSIBLE TO USE THE SAME TRANS).
IF WE WANTED TO CALCULATE IT FROM PARCENTAGE VALUE:

1000: 0,9 = 1111HP....

THE DIFFERENCE IS PRETTY BIG ALREADY.

BUT IF I'M RIGHT THE LOST WOULD BE 1000:1030 = 0.9708% WHICH ALSO FAR AWAY FROM 0.8925 FOR THE NSX (241:270 = 0.8925%).

THANKS FOR THE OPINION.


------------------
Grzes
NSX No.000815
http://connect.to/power_planet
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
17 February 2000
Messages
2,492
Location
San Francisco, CA
It is hard to believe that the # (30HP) remain constant accross the board when u increase the power of the car. Usually the increase of power will result an increase of efficiency in a linear function. This usually more accurate when u measure it in percentage. I have to go back to my enginering books since it's been a while. But I'm pretty sure that is the case.

But please enlighten me with more data.

So far I see the ITR, Supra, 300ZX, M3, are mostly in 13%-17% drop in HP. That is awefully close to 15% IMO. Considering there are errors on the machine as well. The only one have 11% is the NSX.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
18 August 2000
Messages
12
Location
hamden, ct USA
i dont think 5 valve per cyl. technology works as well as it sounds.
plus the nsx's engine is horizontal. the 355 is not. so that has to be taken into consideration. the nsx sure was engineered nicely though i must admit, how many cars are as fast as it is with less than 300 horse? the corvette Z06 supposedly runs 12's with only 10 more hp than the ferrari and its heavier too. but the modena was a giant leap over the 355 so people would probably get that car over the 355, that is if you have the $$$
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
10 February 2001
Messages
1,562
Location
Southern California
Just would like to share something I thought was pretty funny. I have a friend that owns an NSX, and another a F355. They both live in LA and decided to race to vegas. The NSX won because the F355 ran out of gas.

Ryan
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
22 February 2000
Messages
356
Location
vancouver canada
Originally posted by RyRy210:
Just would like to share something I thought was pretty funny. I have a friend that owns an NSX, and another a F355. They both live in LA and decided to race to vegas. The NSX won because the F355 ran out of gas.

Ryan

I've raced with F355 before and it wasn't as fast as I expected, however, the high pitch engine note was definitely amazing.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
27 March 2000
Messages
3,920
Location
Palos Verdes, CA
I got to drive my boss' 355 for about twenty minutes last weekend, but didn't get a chance to open it up since it was raining. Though I can't say whether or not the 355 felt faster than the NSX, it sure did SOUND faster
wink.gif


------------------
--akira3D ('00 NSX-T red/black #113)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx

[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 28 February 2001).]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
5 June 2000
Messages
775
Location
Cypress, Texas USA
Well I was just at the local Ferrari shop today. Here's what he was trying to sell me.

97 F355 Red on Black, 15k miles, 15k service completed ~ $105k
97 F355 Blue on Black, 20k miles, custom racing seats and extras, 15k service completed ~ $125k
98 F355 Spider, Black on Black, pending offer $140k
01 F360 ~ Red on Black, F1 transmission ~$196k and change
74 Dino Red on Black, really, really clean ~ $75k

The GM had never been in an NSX. We went for a little spin with my SportShift. I don't know if he was trying to be nice or what but said he was really impressed based on the price.

However he said the F1 transmission would blow me away. In fact he said most new cars purchased by previous owners have the F1 ordered. Then he ask me if I was interested in the 360? (The person who ordered had to back out.) I said sure if you can fit it into an NSX price
biggrin.gif
...

------------------
Hal Jones
Lake Oswego, Oregon
95T Blk\Blk SportShift
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
5 June 2000
Messages
775
Location
Cypress, Texas USA
Originally posted by dswartz:
hejo, was the Dino a GTS? If so, it may be the best bargin of the bunch!

I didn't look at it that close because I was focused on the 360 next to it. I can find out tomorrow. I do know it was an italian car brought to the states as part of a private collection.
 
Top