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Plasma TV

NetViper said:
I would NEVER buy a TV right now that does not do HD. I don't think having a built-in tuner is a must, but certainly at least HD-ready.

I have to disagree with this: IMO you should NEVER buy technology you do not need right now, specially in the consumer market.

People that bought HDTV one year ago and did not use it in the meantime would have lost at least 1500-2000$ in depreciation. Enough to pay most of a EDTV to place in another room now... ;)

The same applies to who bought 5mio pixel digital camera, DLP XGA pojectors, hi-end VGA cards, ... thinking that in future they may need the additional features.
 
Autophile said:
Thanks in part to this thread, I just picked up a Fujitsu 50" plasma tonight. :biggrin: Now I've got to figure out where I'm gonna mount this sucker....

So did you get the new model that just came out? I have the older one which is great, but I heard the new one is noticeably better. I haven't seen it yet and can't imagine a better picture than mine. Might have to upgrade.

If you're going to mainly watch SD and DVD then a Panasonic EDTV pdp will display the picture better than any HDTV pdp. HDTV pdps for the most part do a horrible job with SD. It's hard to watch SD on my Fujitsu unless I'm 15 feet away.
 
gheba_nsx said:
I have to disagree with this: IMO you should NEVER buy technology you do not need right now, specially in the consumer market.

People that bought HDTV one year ago and did not use it in the meantime would have lost at least 1500-2000$ in depreciation. Enough to pay most of a EDTV to place in another room now... ;)

For one thing, I don't think ED existed a year ago.

I might have agreed with you about buying an HD set a year ago, but not today. Most cable companies have movie channels (HBO, Cinemax etc) in HD. Larger cites will have at least 10 HD channels. You can get VOOM HD satelitte channels.

To not buy HD now is just throwing money away in the future.
 
NetViper said:
For one thing, I don't think ED existed a year ago.

I might have agreed with you about buying an HD set a year ago, but not today. Most cable companies have movie channels (HBO, Cinemax etc) in HD. Larger cites will have at least 10 HD channels. You can get VOOM HD satelitte channels.

To not buy HD now is just throwing money away in the future.

EDTV exists since Spring last year (Samsung for example started selling the Plasma 42" EDTV models in early summer 2003) and discussions over the internet existed since then .

As said if you are going to use HDTV now go for it (you mention HD cable etc. and this would be ok, but in a post before you said also that a tuner was not a must), but if you aregoing to wait I am pretty sure that in one year other 1500-2000$ will be taken away from the price of those 60" models (about 6k$ each now) and that is about the price of an EDTV.
 
gheba_nsx said:
EDTV exists since Spring last year (Samsung for example started selling the Plasma 42" EDTV models in early summer 2003) and discussions over the internet existed since then .

As said if you are going to use HDTV now go for it (you mention HD cable etc. and this would be ok, but in a post before you said also that a tuner was not a must), but if you aregoing to wait I am pretty sure that in one year other 1500-2000$ will be taken away from the price of those 60" models (about 6k$ each now) and that is about the price of an EDTV.

My bad on the ED TV. I guess it was something that never interested me then and still doesn't today.

If you are getting your HD signals from a cable compay or sat. company, their boxes decode the HD signal, so you do not need a tuner. You only need one if you are getting signals off air. Hence why I said a tuner is not a must.

Also, I don't think you are going to see the price of sets change very much over the next year. My Sony was MSRP $4,000 a year ago. The new model is now $4,000.

Plasma sets will go down as yields improve, but if you are a home theater guy you know that there is plasma, and then there is PLASMA. Prices for good quality plasmas are still way up there.
 
I've got a 42" Panasonic in my bedroom right now (the TH-42PA20U.) I wanted something affordable that i could hang on my wall, and this display fit the bill and then some. I went to several electronic stores and looked at the Panasonic right next to other displays (some "HDTV" and costing over twice as much) and the Panasonic EDTV was right up there with the HD plasmas. Some of the HD sets, IMHO, looked worse than the Panasonic. They've discontinued my model and replaced it with the same display and some extra features.

It seems as if CNET agrees with me (it's an Editor's Choice):
http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_TH_42PD25U_P/4505-6482_7-30916296.html?tag=topprods

Since I bought mine, the price on them has really dropped. The new model was on sale at a local store for $2499. I bought mine on clearance about six months ago for $3000.

Anyways, my advice is to go to a store that has a variety of plasmas and compare them side-by-side. The difference in quality between the pictures will surprise you. Also, on plasmas, pay close attention to the contrast ratio. A lot of plasmas have difficulty displaying blacks.
 
sabashioyaki said:
So did you get the new model that just came out? I have the older one which is great, but I heard the new one is noticeably better. I haven't seen it yet and can't imagine a better picture than mine. Might have to upgrade.
No, I bought a P50XHA10US on clearance at Magnolia (Arden Fair Mall). I am truly in awe of the picture quality on this thing. Since this is my first plasma, I probably wouldn't be able to appreciate paying 80% more for only slightly better performance on the new 30 series model.

If you're going to mainly watch SD and DVD then a Panasonic EDTV pdp will display the picture better than any HDTV pdp. HDTV pdps for the most part do a horrible job with SD. It's hard to watch SD on my Fujitsu unless I'm 15 feet away.
I agree. I only watch HD and DVD on my home theater (where the plasma will be). For SD, I use one of my SD Sony Wega's. I'm a Voom subscriber.
 
Viper Driver said:
Anyways, my advice is to go to a store that has a variety of plasmas and compare them side-by-side. The difference in quality between the pictures will surprise you. Also, on plasmas, pay close attention to the contrast ratio. A lot of plasmas have difficulty displaying blacks.

I dont agree with that. It all depends on the quality of the signal that is going into the TV. If you have a signal that is spliced 10 times running to 10 different plasmas and it will look good on some and horrible on the others. It could even get progressively worse and make a $2,000 plasma look better than a $12,000 plasma. When I was looking at LCD's, I saw the 60" in a lot of different stores. Sometimes it looked great, other times it would have HUGE blocks of artifacts and look like hell. It is all about the quality of the signal.

Now, if they were all playing DVD's from a separate DVD player each, then you would get a better idea of how they will look.
 
Okay, I take back my advice then. Don't go and actually look at them in person. Go ahead and buy based on what others tell you on an internet message board. :rolleyes:
 
on another note, anyone know when the FCC is having all tv's sold in the US be in 16x9?
 
Viper Driver said:
Okay, I take back my advice then. Don't go and actually look at them in person. Go ahead and buy based on what others tell you on an internet message board. :rolleyes:

I don't think you understand what I am saying. By all means look at them in person, but don't think a store is going to have the optimal signal going to each tv to allow you to make a really good comparison of each.
 
NSXrebel said:
on another note, anyone know when the FCC is having all tv's sold in the US be in 16x9?

All stations are supposed to be broadcasting in HD by 2006. I have heard they are not on schedule for that to actually happen though.
 
NetViper said:
I don't think you are going to see the price of sets change very much over the next year.
Today's New York Times disagrees with you:

Signs of a Glut and Lower Prices on Thin TV's
By ERIC A. TAUB


Published: November 29, 2004

While hanging a television on the living- room wall may have captured the imagination of American consumers, it has yet to empty many pocketbooks.

That may soon change as a glut of liquid crystal display flat-panel televisions, called L.C.D.'s, enter the market, a result of a boom in new factories. According to several manufacturers and analysts, the prices for L.C.D. flat-panel TV's will drop in the new year, falling by as much as 30 percent by the end of 2005. The prices of plasma flat-panel TV's are also expected to fall significantly.

That is not a message that the electronics retailers want to be heard during the holiday shopping season. They are hoping that the price cuts that have already occurred will spur more people to buy flat-panel sets, and many are already offering discounts to increase traffic in their stores.

"We do not want to talk about predictions of price drops," said Lee Simonson, the director of Best Buy's television division. "We want people to buy now."

Flat-panel TV's still represent less than 10 percent of the 29 million TV sets to be sold to dealers in 2004. Of the flat-panel sales, 73 percent are L.C.D. sets and 27 percent are the larger plasma models.

Flat-panel sets have become hot items with consumers. According to a survey by the Consumer Electronics Association, an industry trade group, a plasma television is the most desired holiday gift this season.

Manufacturers, like the makers of other consumer electronics, are investing heavily to expand their production capacity, hoping to capture market share. Earnings, they reason, will come later, although until recently, these sets had proved highly profitable. In the first three quarters of 2004, the LG.Philips LCD Company made $1.4 billion in profits from L.C.D. televisions, although the company reported a drop in earnings in the third quarter from the year-earlier period. Another manufacturer, AU Optronics, made $900 million in the three quarters, according to DisplaySearch, a technology research company.

This windfall has given them the cash to build next-generation plants capable of creating even larger screens at lower per-unit costs. Each new generation L.C.D. plant costs $1 billion to $3 billion.

Next year, AU Optronics and another L.C.D. maker, C.P.T., both based in Taiwan, will complete new plants for making 32- and 37-inch displays. To cut construction costs, Sony and Samsung are in a $2 billion joint venture to build the world's first L.C.D. plant designed to produce eight 40-inch or six 46-inch displays cut from one large piece of glass.

"The plant building boom is due to a herd mentality as big sales numbers have been forecast," said Chris Chinnock, president of Insight Media and editor of the Microdisplay Report, an industry newsletter. "We've seen this cycle of shortfall, investment and oversupply for 10 years. Everyone sees the opportunity at the bottom of the trough and thinks they can do better than their competitors."

Bharath Rajagopalan, general manager for TCL-Thomson Electronics, owner of the RCA brand, said: "L.C.D. production is becoming a commodity game. There is an inordinate amount of competition and price erosion."

Ross Young, president of DisplaySearch, predicts that there will be a 53 percent increase in capacity during 2005, and he says that will put a lot of pressure on pricing. A 42-inch L.C.D. set that costs close to $4,500 today will be $3,100 next year, and $2,250 in 2006, he says.

Tasso Koken, vice president and general merchandise manager for Sears home electronics, predicts that in 18 months, a 20-inch L.C.D. TV from a well-known manufacturer will be under $299, down from $700 to $800 today. "The 2005 price drops in L.C.D. will make the 2004 reductions look like a walk in the park," he said.

As prices for all televisions fall, the industry expects that each of the competing technologies will carve out its own market niche. The ultimate victim may be the tried-and- true picture-tube TV.

So far, average consumers do not seem to care which technology they are buying. "Generally speaking, the consumer has no understanding of the differences between L.C.D. and plasma technology," Mr. Koken of Sears said.

But there are important differences. Plasma displays use a grid of hundreds of thousands of cells filled with a xenon and neon gas plasma. An electrical charge illuminates colored fluorescent phosphors, creating an image. Because of the difficulty in producing very small grids, plasma sets can be produced cost effectively only in larger screen sizes.

In an L.C.D. panel, liquid crystals are sandwiched between pieces of glass. An electrical charge twists the crystals to block light or to allow it to pass through to the screen. L.C.D. sets do not display motion as crisply as plasma TV's, and have more limited viewing angles.

Many industry executives expect that later this decade, L.C.D. units, which are typically 3 to 5 inches deep, will completely replace smaller-size picture-tube sets. Next year, Sony expects to double the number of flat-panel TV's it sells in the United States, while decreasing its picture-tube offerings by 20 percent, according to Mike Fidler, a Sony senior vice president. The picture-tube business is expected to remain profitable for the company for the next three years, but then decline as the price of L.C.D. TV's falls below $500, Mr. Fidler said.

Falling prices for larger screen sizes may force plasma sets to be sold only in sizes around 60 inches, where they maintain their price edge over L.C.D. screens. Plasma panels contain only electrodes and phosphors, so they can be made in larger sizes without a proportionate increase in price, according to Ed Wolff, a vice president at Panasonic.

But some are not so sanguine about the future of plasma. Mr. Fidler of Sony says that L.C.D. TV's will drop so much in price that plasma will go away in three to five years.

Given the uncertainty of whether customers will take to mounting their TV's on a wall, some companies like RCA are hoping that a less-expensive large-screen projection TV will remain a viable alternative to L.C.D. or plasma sets. A harbinger of that trend, the company's recently introduced Projects, a 61-inch projection set, is just 7 inches deep.
 
nsxtasy said:
Today's New York Times disagrees with you:

.

We'll apparently a lot of people in this thread disagree with me. I don't care honestly. If you want to buy a TV now and don't buy HD, that is your call. Just don't complain next year when you wish you had spent the extra grand for an HD set instead of having to buy a whole new TV.

I haven't seen much drop in prices at all over the last few years and I have been watching pretty closely.

LCD TV's that are under 40" need to drop significantly because they are rediculously overpriced. Once you are over that level, they are pretty much all the same.

On top of that, there are newer technologies always coming out that will stay priced at the top. LCOS TV's are on the way and will produce better blacks than either LCD or DLP and also have a much higher resolution.

You get what you pay for. There is always something newer and better coming down the road. You can wait forever if you want. I would rather get what I want and enjoy it. In a year I will have enjoyed my TV for 1.5 years while someone else might have waited 1.5 years for the price to drop $800 bucks on a $4000 TV. Is it worth waiting? Your call.
 
Last edited:
I was in the market for a plasma TV about 4 months ago.

I decided to buy a 43" Pioneer HDTV from Costco....$3,999 + tax. Costco has a super return policy. They said they'll take anything back before 6 months...and sometimes they take things back up to 1.5 years. I figure if I don't like the TV or see it for a lot cheaper in 6 months, I could just return it. Otherwise, I will keep and continue enjoying the TV in the meantime.

Good Luck whoever is looking.
 
PoohBEAR said:
Guys...I am looking for a cheap 42" in my bedroom during late nite cartoon episode :D. What is the most tv for the money? what the heck is EDTV?

Any1 in the business?


*wave* Call me, Calvin. Maybe we can do dinner again and I can get you a tv. :)
 
sabashioyaki said:
If you're going to mainly watch SD and DVD then a Panasonic EDTV pdp will display the picture better than any HDTV pdp.
For now. Just keep in mind that a HDTV version of DVD is just around the corner (if they can settle the prospective format war that is brewing). If and when one of the competing formats becomes widely available, it will undoubtedly look better on HDTV than EDTV.
 
nsxtasy said:
For now. Just keep in mind that a HDTV version of DVD is just around the corner (if they can settle the prospective format war that is brewing). If and when one of the competing formats becomes widely available, it will undoubtedly look better on HDTV than EDTV.

They also already have DVD players that upconvert the signal to 720p to get better quality on an HD set. I have yet to see one, but I have read they look pretty good, but still not close to an HD signal.
 
NetViper said:
They also already have DVD players that upconvert the signal to 720p to get better quality on an HD set. I have yet to see one, but I have read they look pretty good, but still not close to an HD signal.

You can do that with a PC and some software (ffdshow offers the scaler function to 720p or 1080i, it also can apply antialiasing and several nice other effects), I project a lot of "enhanced" DVDs at 720p. ;)
 
gheba_nsx said:
You can do that with a PC and some software (ffdshow offers the scaler function to 720p or 1080i, it also can apply antialiasing and several nice other effects), I project a lot of "enhanced" DVDs at 720p. ;)

How does it look? As good as a native HD signal?
 
kjhNSXdreamer said:
I was in the market for a plasma TV about 4 months ago.

I decided to buy a 43" Pioneer HDTV from Costco....$3,999 + tax. Costco has a super return policy. They said they'll take anything back before 6 months...and sometimes they take things back up to 1.5 years. I figure if I don't like the TV or see it for a lot cheaper in 6 months, I could just return it. Otherwise, I will keep and continue enjoying the TV in the meantime.

Good Luck whoever is looking.

I'll disagree with that Costco return statement. With original receipt in hand, you can return your TV to Costco anytime you'd like in the future. Ask my wife, she works there. Her nickname for the returns department is "The dump". She has many a story to tell (she has to write a book), from a guy bringing back 6" of one pant leg of some jeans, with receipt in hand, getting all his money back, to a hammock that was years old and was rusted beyond recognition, also getting their money back in full. If you hold on to your original receipt, you'll get your full purchase price back. Even without a receipt, you will get back the lowest price it sold for. As long as it is still in their computer. Having the original guarantees a return. No reciept is a crap shoot after some time has passed. This does not apply to computers, which have a 6 mos. return policy (still a long time for computers)
Good luck,
John
 
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