Proof that Ferraris are Crap!

[nsxtasy]

So the Ferrari Club of America is holding its annual event, FCA 2005, in Indianapolis within the next week. It consists of viewing the F1 race, plus a three-day track event at Indianapolis Raceway Park.

The tech instructions for cars participating in the track event note that they do not permit coolant (antifreeze) to be used in cars on the track. The coolant must be flushed and replaced with distilled water (although they allow Water Wetter to be added). In other words, they have special rules for their events because they know that the cooling systems in their cars are going to fail and dump coolant on the track!

Maybe they should instead try replacing their cars with NSXs, so they can find out what it's like to have a reliable car, instead of one that you automatically expect to break down...

 

[comquat1]

Are you deliberately trying to get F-chat guys to come here and fight?? :tongue:

 

[Meeyatch1]

It is on now!! Wait for the Ferrari people to see this.

 

[Jin1976]

This reminds me of the guy who said his Subaru is better than the NSX. :wink:

 

[NSX-Racer]

In other words, they have special rules for their events because they know that the cooling systems in their cars are going to fail and dump coolant on the track!

I wouldn't necessarily connect that with technical fears. In case of a crash (sometimes only a minor bump) the radiator could leak in any car and change the tarmac into something with ice grip level. Have seen that with Hondas too (no NSX yet, but Integras).

 

[NSXGeek!]

This was the most retarded / childish post I've read on Prime in awhile. My brain hurts.

So the Ferrari Club of America is holding its annual event, FCA 2005, in Indianapolis within the next week. It consists of viewing the F1 race, plus a three-day track event at Indianapolis Raceway Park.

The tech instructions for cars participating in the track event note that they do not permit coolant (antifreeze) to be used in cars on the track. The coolant must be flushed and replaced with distilled water (although they allow Water Wetter to be added). In other words, they have special rules for their events because they know that the cooling systems in their cars are going to fail and dump coolant on the track!

Maybe they should instead try replacing their cars with NSXs, so they can find out what it's like to have a reliable car, instead of one that you automatically expect to break down...

 

[cmhs75]

So the Ferrari Club of America is holding its annual event, FCA 2005, in Indianapolis within the next week. It consists of viewing the F1 race, plus a three-day track event at Indianapolis Raceway Park.

are you really nsxtasy?

 

[AU_NSX]

So the Ferrari Club of America is holding its annual event, FCA 2005, in Indianapolis within the next week. It consists of viewing the F1 race, plus a three-day track event at Indianapolis Raceway Park.

The tech instructions for cars participating in the track event note that they do not permit coolant (antifreeze) to be used in cars on the track. The coolant must be flushed and replaced with distilled water (although they allow Water Wetter to be added). In other words, they have special rules for their events because they know that the cooling systems in their cars are going to fail and dump coolant on the track!

Maybe they should instead try replacing their cars with NSXs, so they can find out what it's like to have a reliable car, instead of one that you automatically expect to break down...

Totally agree... Ferrari ownership and becomming mates with a tow truck owner.... A match made in heaven! :biggrin:

Ferrari's and tow trucks are afterall, inseperable!!! :biggrin:

 

[deedubb]

This was the most retarded / childish post I've read on Prime in awhile. My brain hurts.

agreed.

 

[nsxtasy]

I wouldn't necessarily connect that with technical fears. In case of a crash (sometimes only a minor bump) the radiator could leak in any car and change the tarmac into something with ice grip level. Have seen that with Hondas too (no NSX yet, but Integras).

If that were true, then all car clubs would be requiring this of cars in their track events. They don't. This is ONLY true of the Ferrari Club, as far as I know, and is not true of other marque clubs such as the Porsche Club, the BMW Club, the NSX Club, etc. ONLY the Ferrari Club requires that cars in its events don't use coolant. The only possible reason for doing so is that they expect the cars in their events to break down and dump fluid on the track.

 

[burbel]

Actually, another thought - since it is summer, and I'm sure temps will be high - It would make sense, from a cooling perspective, to switch to distilled water over coolant for a track event (or if you believe the marketting, distilled water + water wetter). If I was doing a track session here in Texas, I would consider doing the same thing. However, since I've heard from a number of folks that the NSX cooling system is up to the task, I wouldn't think it to be required.

 

[nsxtasy]

This was the most retarded / childish post I've read on Prime in awhile.

It's clear that you have no sense of humor, don't understand what a smilie face is for (let alone three of them), and wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it hit you over the head.

My brain hurts.

I'm sure it does; you have exceeded its limited capacity.

EDIT: Here's something that you don't understand. The smiley faces - like this one and this one - are for HUMOR. H - U - M - O - R. Humor means that they are intended to make people laugh. Most people, anyway. You should try it some time...

 

[NSX-Racer]

Excerpt from the pdf document from the Ferrari site:

As background, here is why we came to this decision on this subject, which has raised some
questions.
1. Glycol based coolants are slipperier than oil if spilled on the track, and are much less visible for
driver's to avoid.
2. Clean up of a coolant spill takes much longer than oil and creates a bigger safety hazard.
3. Coolant spills are not uncommon at our track events (due to blown hoses, radiators, loose caps,
contact incidents, and boil-overs).
4. With the anticipation of as many as 150 track entrants at this event, the schedule is so tight we
cannot afford any lengthy delays.
5. Based on 1 & 2 above, most race organizations (and others) have banned the use of glycol-based
coolants at their events.
Obviously, the above concerns are greater for older cars where the condition and age of the cooling
system components are more questionable, but are still valid concerns even with newer cars (550
Maranello's for example, can often blow coolant hoses).
Our rationale in coming to this decision was based on providing an overall safer and more enjoyable
venue for everyone, and hopefully avoiding potential problems and negatively impacting everyone's
track time. This does come at a price, however, and that is the trouble of changing your coolant. The
event organizers must do this as well and are not looking forward to it either.


Ken, are they lying with point No. 5?
And: I can't see any sarcasm or humour sign in your post No. 10 so I come to the conclusion you're serious about that. Or did I misread or misunderstand something (which can happen all the time with my limited english knowledge). BTW: It seems they don't deny some problems they have with their cars (550 coolant hoses) which I'd call honest.

 

[Hrant]

Come to think of it, I like this policy if am a track organizer and facing several older cars on the track!

Almost at every track event, we are seeing one or two cars (not necessarily NSX) leaking fluids on the track. Sometimes it is oil, sometimes it is coolant. Last track event one of our local NSX guys blew a radiator hose on a 92, this after the car was inspected by an Acura dealer before the track event.

As for overheating, quite a few NSXs that are tracked have reported overheating as well, and this is a fact well documented on these forums.

 

[nsxtasy]

3. Coolant spills are not uncommon at our track events (due to blown hoses, radiators, loose caps, contact incidents, and boil-overs).

As I stated.

are they lying with point No. 5?

Lying implies intent. I have no idea what their intentions are in making that statement. All I know is, the statement is untrue for all the other marque clubs I've participated in events with (BMWCCA, PCA, NSXCA, etc) as well as all of the other organizations whose events I'm familiar with (NASA, TrackTime, CGI Motorsports, Car Guys, Chin Motorsports, etc). NONE of these groups ban coolant from their events.

I'm sure this policy results from a series of bad experiences with coolant spills in their previous events. Coolant spills are certainly dangerous; the stuff is indeed very slippery, and a spill can cause a safety hazard. However, of the ~200 track events I've participated in, there have been maybe 2-3 coolant spills total - not enough to cause the need for such a policy. (And I don't recall what kinds of cars caused them.)

I can't see any sarcasm or humour sign in your post No. 10 so I come to the conclusion you're serious about that.

No, in that post, I was serious and there was no sarcasm intended; I am not aware of any other groups that ban coolant in their events, and I can confirm that the ones I list here do NOT ban coolant.

facing several older cars on the track
.
.
.
Last track event one of our local NSX guys blew a radiator hose on a 92, this after the car was inspected by an Acura dealer before the track event.

Then it would make more sense to require that radiator hoses were new within no more than X (say, 6 or 8) years prior to the track event.

As for overheating, quite a few NSXs that are tracked have reported overheating as well, and this is a fact well documented on these forums.

It is also a fact that coolant prevents overheating. Using water instead can only make the problem worse.

 

[NSX-Racer]

However, of the ~200 track events I've participated in, there have been maybe 2-3 coolant spills total - not enough to cause the need for such a policy. (And I don't recall what kinds of cars caused them.)

Lucky guy. I had way less track events than you but at least about the same coolant incidents as you had with different kind of cars (I remember one Integra and one Porsche, no Ferrari). One of these incidents caused a closing of a track part for about 2 hours meanwhile we only could drive a shorter version of this track. I personaly find this "Ferrari" rule not that dumb.

BTW: Are there any anti freeze coolant additions that are not glycol based and not as slippery?

 

[NSXGeek!]

Personally, as someone with track experience, I'd expect you to understand and appreciate the concept of running zero glycol or at least a limited ratio. The NSX has on-track cooling problems including over heating, cracking coolant jugs, and bursting main coolant lines. I've had these problems in my cars and have run into them on the track.

In warmer climates (such as Indy in the summer), the cooling system's efficiency can be greatly improved running pure distilled water, and even more so with an additive like Redline's Water Wetter or Neo Super Cool.

Irregardless, your first post lacks any intelligence, and your attempt at "humor" was pretty lame.

 

[Autophile]

In warmer climates (such as Indy in the summer), the cooling system's efficiency can be greatly improved running pure distilled water....

How so? Please define what you mean by "efficiency." I.e., improved due to a change in the heat transfer rate? Heat capacity? This is an interesting topic.

 

[NSXGeek!]

How so? Please define what you mean by "efficiency." I.e., improved due to a change in the heat transfer rate? Heat capacity? This is an interesting topic.

Basicly, these additives increase thermal transfer efficiency by allowing more surface area contact to water. Pure water has lower surface tension than water + glycol coolant. However, pure distilled water doesn't have any of the anti-corrosion and lubrication properties that additives like Water Wetter provide. Since pure distilled water + additives provide much beter cooling efficiency than water + glycol while still offering the same anti-corrosion and lubrication properties as 50/50 mix, most race cars run this way. Same advantages can be had in your street car assuming your car never sees freezing temps. The glycol mix is needed only when the car will see freezing temps to reduce damage from freezing.

 

[NSXGeek!]

Check out this animation for an explanation of how it works...
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp?productID=53&coolantFlash=1

 

[Mirroredshades]

I don't want to ruin this thread for everyone but I have been on a number of tracks and they have ALL required the removal of anti-freeze. The ironic thing in my mind was that they always send the cars over to an area with a storm drain and tell you to flush your system.

Screw the environment as long as the track is clean.

 

[nsxtasy]

I don't want to ruin this thread for everyone but I have been on a number of tracks and they have ALL required the removal of anti-freeze.

Was this required by the tracks, or by the groups holding the events? And which one(s) required it?

Obviously, since I've never encountered this with any of the groups I've run with before, I've never encountered it as a track requirement, either, by any of the 23 tracks I've driven (including Indianapolis Raceway Park, where I've previously driven).

 

[Mirroredshades]

Carraway, Ace, Bowman Gray, Piedmont, Rockingham, in NC. A couple in Michigan, Onoway (sp?), Alpena.

Come to think of it, a couple of the dragstrips didn't but they were just bring what you have nights though.

 

[nsxtasy]

Carraway, Ace, Bowman Gray, Piedmont, Rockingham, in NC. A couple in Michigan, Onoway (sp?), Alpena.

Aren't these either tracks that primarily hold competition events (e.g. NASCAR) or drag strips, rather than the road courses holding HPDE events with street cars as I am discussing? I've never heard of any of these holding HPDE events, other than Rockingham, which is closed (and I've never heard of them banning coolant). Furthermore, I've driven all the road courses in Michigan that hold HPDE events - GingerMan, Grattan, Waterford Hills, Michigan International Speedway - and I can assure you that none of them prohibit the use of coolant.

Race rules are typically very different from HPDE events (drivers schools) in terms of equipment (as well as many other areas).

 

[nuccaJB]

Ouch, everyone is getting so serious. I find it funny on prime how sometimes jokes go by no sweat, then other days everyone is pissed off. People rag on the NSX all the time on other boards and I don't really notice NSXers getting super mad about it. Almost any Corvette guy will list twenty reasons why his car is better the instant you say NSX. I have a patient that I told about how I want an NSX, he instantly lists off every little problem he knows about the NSX and how all these other things about Corvettes are better. Most F-car owners probably laugh about the NSX being a Japanese Ferrari, they probably have some respect for the car, but they think we are dreaming. As nsxtasy said SARCASM!