Results of the CalCoastalNSX meeting...Larry's Turbo & S.O.S. Basch SC

[ANYTIME]

Well, it was a very late night last night in Calabasas. Our meeting has been very successful with a record turnout of about 20 people. Larry brought his Turbo out to play (thanks to the owner Sinbad) and give some insight on what he has to offer and gave a select few test rides. I can say that the turbo has what I discribe as BRUTAL power and that sucking and blowing tunes that it emitted were excellent. FAST? You bet, and no lag. To make a long story short, no stock clutch would last five minutes. The power band comes in very fast and pulls hard. On to the next phase. Chris Wilson from Science of Speed rolled in with 2 hours of sleep under his belt,all day at the track(pahrump), THEN he drove straight in to Calabasas to show off his BaschBoost powered car. WOW! I was one of the lucky ones to get a test drive. Different than Sinbad's car,and more of a smoother power transition. The powerband just kept of pulling, and about 6 grand, MORE power!! I could go on for much longer about these cars, but I want to leave some room for others who had the opportunity of the test drive to elaborate more.

Take care,
John Richards
Pres. CalCoastalNSX

 

[smoore]

any idea's on which one seems faster

 

[NetViper]

So, which one would you guys rather have?? The Turbo or supercharger?

Is the price similar?

------------------
NetViper -= 100% Stock EBP 2000 Civic Si =- Still looking to get an NSX, but at least I can live life at 8,000 RPM!

 

[ilya]

I didn't get a chance to ride in either last night. I would bet they are both extremely fast, judging by faces after both encounters, and a purchase would come down to personal preference more than anything else.

 

[ANYTIME]

Originally posted by smoore:
any idea's on which one seems faster

This was not the intention of the cars showing up, it was to show new products on the market and the opportunity for hands on looksee at what both have to offer. If you want fast, buy and 80's 5.0 Mustang, throw on some aluminun heads and a big shot of NOS and you'll be into the 10's. (this was from a muscle mag article). I don't want to compare the speed of the two. Both could be tuned to beat each other, but at what cost? Breakage? Realiability should be a factor when moding your car, not how fast it can be. Many lose sight of this teter toter effect.

 

[nsx1164]

were there any DYNO readings taken (roller or g-tech) ??

IIRC, the BBSC claims approx 120+ RWHP... I'd be curious to find out how Larry's turbo compares under identical conditions, similar boost levels, etc

 

[ilya]

Hey John,
let me know if you guys get together tonight with Andrie and Chris. We were thinking of possibly doing something and Sam was interested in going as well.

 

[ANYTIME]

Chris and Andrie left!!!!!

Had a great time with them. We hung out this morning. Washed the cars, did a little repair on Andries car and had some good eats. Both are very nice and hope to see them soon someday.
John Richards

 

[ilya]

Yeah, I spoke to him a few hours ago. They originally planned to stay in LA for a day. Maybe next time.

 

[19inchNSX]

Looking at Chris' mods on scienceofspeed, I believe he has the short gears and 4.23 R&P, so I don't think comparing the two would be possible since Sinbad's Turbo has only a clutch upgrade and everything else in the tranny is stock.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ANYTIME:
This was not the intention of the cars showing up, it was to show new products on the market and the opportunity for hands on looksee at what both have to offer. If you want fast, buy and 80's 5.0 Mustang, throw on some aluminun heads and a big shot of NOS and you'll be into the 10's. (this was from a muscle mag article). I don't want to compare the speed of the two. Both could be tuned to beat each other, but at what cost? Breakage? Realiability should be a factor when moding your car, not how fast it can be. Many lose sight of this teter toter effect.

So leave it stock!

I think you've lost sight of the point, which is bang for the buck at a given level of reliability. Of course you should compare which is faster, otherwise I'll gladly sell you a super widget and a noisy exhaust for about $3k, saving you a ton and retaining stock reliability.

 

[nsxbadboy]

Im definitely interested in which one is faster.However,this can be achieved by a dyno and not neccesarily(sp) a drag race.I want to know how my 5600 is going to work for me.

Joe

PS-I like fast

------------------
97 NSX-T
93 Supra TT BPU+

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by nsxbadboy:
However,this can be achieved by a dyno and not neccesarily(sp) a drag race.

Yes and no. Much better would be to record actual acceleration throughout the rev range, in different gears, and in various conditions such as up and down a grade versus level ground, from a punch, etc. There so many things a dyno can't tell you, and when you compare two systems such as these, those differences can be more significant than anything you see on a dyno. No need for a race as such, just pure empirical data in real-world conditions. Obviously, the more similar the two cars are the better, but if there are gearing differences they can be factored out more easily than the myriad of other variables can be factored in.



[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 17 November 2001).]

 

[NSXTC]

Hey Guys-

I was one of the few lucky guys to get a ride in both Larry's single turbo, and Chris' BaschBoost supercharged car. Let me say first off that it is very very difficult to say definetely which one is faster. First off, I was a passenger, not a driver, so difficult to judge. As many of you guys know, I own a high-boost CT SC, so this is my basis of comparison. If I was able to drive these cars

then I'd feel confortable giving my "seat of the pants" comparison. So there I am in the passenger seat. Im not putting my foot doen on the accelerator, and not windoing out the gears myself. When you are the passenger, you have much less input from the car. Things like the sound of the car play into your preception of how fast it is. I have fopund that the louder the car is, the faster it feels. Anyway, Sinbad (thank you sir!) was kind enough to let me be the first victim of the turbo car. Larry's turbo is set up very creatively. The turbo sits up on top of the motor. This arrangement allows for better oil circulation and heat dissapation. So, here is this huge Garrett 77 turbo sitting right behind your head. The sound was awesome! The car pulls like a mutha!!! I was not keeping a good eye on Sinbad's feet, but from my perception, it felt like very little or no turbo lag at all. Id say overall, the power of this car is on par with the Comptech SC, give or take. Larry is aiming to have this kit be one of the least expensive forced induction setups for the NSX, and once it is ready to hit the market, it will be a real contender!


Then, Chris pulls in with his BaschBoost car. I was very very impressed with the overall layout and clean visual appeal of this setup. Finally got my turn as a passenger. WOW! Was all I could say. Once in VTEC range or thereabouts, the car REALLY goes like a bat out of hell!! My totally unscientific, totally subjective seat of the pants passenger's review of this system is that it feels stronger than the high-boost comptech kit above 6,000 RPM, but perhaps a bit weaker through the low to mid RPM ranges. When I reported this initial impression to a fellow member with a strong engineering background, he said that report totally made sense, and he expected such, because the CT uses a roots-type blower which is more efficient at lower RPM ranges, while the BB uses a centrifugal blower, which is more akin to a turbo. IMHO, the way I personally compare the BB and CT SC's in my mind is that the CT SC is probably better for track use, with it's superior low and mid range grunt, and the BB SC is probably more fun for the street with a better high end and from what I understand, a higher peak HP number. THAT'S MY OPINION, AND IM STICKING WITH IT!

    

 

[ewarman]

NSXTC,
This is a little off the topic, but I was wondering what your opinion is of the CT high boost kit in comparison the the standard kit. I have the regular CT SC and was wondering the pros and cons of the high boost upgrade. Also, have you done anything to the gearing?

Originally posted by NSXTC:
Hey Guys-

As many of you guys know, I own a high-boost CT SC, so this is my basis of comparison.

 

[NSXTC]

Originally posted by ewarman:
NSXTC,
This is a little off the topic, but I was wondering what your opinion is of the CT high boost kit in comparison the the standard kit. I have the regular CT SC and was wondering the pros and cons of the high boost upgrade. Also, have you done anything to the gearing?

If you already have a "standard" CT SC, it's a must-do in my opinion! Think of it as the cheapest 20HP and 20FT-LBS increase you can buy! Give Shad a call, and he will set you up!!

Im running short gears with the stock r&p.

[This message has been edited by NSXTC (edited 17 November 2001).]

 

[Craig]

Great crowd Thursday night. Kinda reminded me of when I was a kid...Standing around in the Jack in the Box parking lot on a Saturday night looking for races. It was a little strange though standing there chatting when all of a sudden an NSX would go rocketing by at triple digit speeds (I think I could hear screaming over the turbo blast) What a bust!!!!

I too, got a ride in both cars, and while Larry has a few refinments to make with the Turbo it does produce BIG POWER.
John "Anytime" Richards is right on about the clutch and Sinbad had a beartrap of one to handle the big blast of the Turbo.

The B.B.S.C. was very impressive.

From build quality to power band it seems everthing was well thought through. As for the doubters out there, the proof was in the puddin as Chris Wilson brought Dyno charts including fuel delivery information that was throughly inspected by a couple of "Automotive Engineer" dudes that were lurking around. As skeptical as they were prior to seeing and touching the unit and the data, they left the meeting very impressed.

The Science of Speed car was awsome! and although there really wasn't enough room to open it up proper and safely in the streets of Calabasas I got a pretty good feel for the power. Huge, predictable power all the way through the power band. I would guess that like the trubo, a stronger clutch would be in order to handle the power.

A big thank you to Larry, Sinbad and Chris Wilson for the use of their time and their car's. Thanks to everyone that came and continues to support the monthly meetings as they're only gonna get better!

Also, thanks to John for his endless contribution to the meetings and all that is NSX.

 

[ilya]

***I think you've lost sight of the point, which is bang for the buck at a given level of reliability. Of course you should compare which is faster, otherwise I'll gladly sell you a super widget and a noisy exhaust for about $3k, saving you a ton and retaining stock reliability.***

I think the point John was getting across is that this was not the right place and time to do this kind of comparison. We were privileged to have BOTH cars there that day for us. The vendors need to feel comfortable coming to an NSX meeting to show us a new product. They should not ahve to be worried about being subjected to some kind of drag race down the street to prove their car is faster.
I do agree, that at some point in time, for our reference, it would be helpful to have all the info you and others are asking for. I am also confident that the vednors will produce this info and maybe even agree to something in the future, on their terms.

However, as organizer of this event, I believe John did absolutley the right thing.
Having us drive in both cars and post subjective comparisons is fine. Having these cars dueling down the street would have been juvenile, would have proven little else than who is the better driver, and possibly made sure that neither car would ever show up for us again.

It was an awesome meeting John. Maybe some day, in the future, once both kits are complete, tested and available, there will be a neutral ground where they can be compared.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ilya:

I think the point John was getting across is that this was not the right place and time to do this kind of comparison.

I thought so also until I got to the part that went "If you want fast, buy and 80's 5.0 Mustang, throw on some aluminun heads and a big shot of NOS and you'll be into the 10's. (this was from a muscle mag article). I don't want to compare the speed of the two. Both could be tuned to beat each other, but at what cost? Breakage? Realiability should be a factor when moding your car, not how fast it can be. Many lose sight of this teter toter effect."

Makes it sound like a fashion accessory rather than a performance mod. Anyway, I didn't mean to come off as rude as it sounded, but it just didn't make any sense to me.