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Sad sight - NSX at the Atlanta Auto Show

slashmatt said:
The same kind of logic that says 20" wheels are obviously better, and should thusly be installed on high performance sports cars, because they "look" better.
Thanks for clarifying yourself.
So you are saying your logic is the same kind of idiotic logic as your above example. Afterall, you are the one who used 13" and 20" wheels as examples and no one else did.
Steve
 
Looks are about trends, and the trend in exotic cars is larger wheels. Yes, the NSX would look more modern with 19/18's. But that's easy to do if you want.

If wheels are the sticking point in terms of the NSX's relative looks compared with today's exotics, then the NSX can sleep easy in the garage tonight.

And yes, the 13" F1 comparison is ridiculous
 
H-carWizKid said:
Love the NSX- But folks are getting a little defensive here.
Being somewhat practical-
If I were NSX shopping today, I would not consider an 05'- not when pristine earlier examples can be had for less than half the cost, and the changes are as insignificant as they are.
Generally speaking: A used NSX is an incredible value- probably for the resons stated above- it just hasn't changed much.
This community is prideful of the maintainence on their cars (see Zaino vs Zymol- endless arguments) so you have a great chance at getting the best used car you would ever buy.
I love these cars, it always feels like I am putting on a powerful backpack when I get behind the wheel, and the car just feels good to drive. I really don't care about how old the design is. I guess if I really cared about keeping up with the Jones's I would want my car to look perpetually updated, and always have the biggest HP numbers's- but I really don't care about the Jones's.
Something from 1991 that was great is still pretty damn great to me. Ultimately I am the only one I want to impress, and the NSX does that for me.

Philip

Mid-year Corvette owners probably harbour little or no envy of C6 owners. A classic is a classic, and I think the NSX is headed in that direction.

I agree with all this EXCEPT two things:

1. The NSX is a "powerfull backpack?" The insufficient power is one of the reasons the car is dated TO ME.

2. All Corvette owners (hell, everybody else, too) respect and envy the mid-year Corvettes.

I'll add one thing. In the thread entitled "Selling my NSX for a C6," ANYTIME posted pics of a black NSX next to a new black C6. I gotta tell everyone, the NSX is still a better looking car OVER ALL imo. The only part of the NSX that is starting to look dated to me is the rear end......I do think it is time for Honda to re-design the NSX or discontinue it.
 
The NSX still looks fantastic and the styling will always be timeless for me in a lot of ways. Over the years, the minor updates in styling have kept it somewhat fresh. But IMHO it does not look as "exotic" as it did the first time I saw one nearly 15 years ago. I didn't truly comprehend this until recently - probably the first and maybe only time it really hit me in the face was while watching the Best Motoring DVD "Super Battle". In that edition, the NSX-R is pitted against the Gallardo, Murcielago, and the Modena (amongst others). There was this one photo op shot of all the cars together on the track, and it struck me then that the NSX (even in NSX-R guise) was the least exotic of that group of super exotics and the one that looks the most dated. As pretty as she looked, she was showing her age in that shot. She put up a great fight in the Best Motoring battle just as she still does in the look department, but in the end time catches up with her.

There was a time when the NSX looked every bit as exotic, or even more so, as anything from Italy or elsewhere, but that's not true of today's Italian exotics. Again, all imo of course - beauty is in the eye of the beholder as many have mentioned.
 
An example of how the NSX looks hold up: I took my 1991 NSX with 110,000 miles on it in for some repair work. After they fixed it, they parked it in front of the dealer with the new cars to attract buyers.
 
mmmikemo said:
I am thinking when your wife hits her 40's, she's not going to feel past her prime...I still have a big grin on my face when I drive my NSX...and my over 40 wife has never been hotter and that gives me another big grin!!!

Women hit their sexual peak in the 40s. I can't wait. :biggrin:
 
First of all, I want to say the NSX is still a great looking car that attracts plenty of attention. I have people admiring it constantly, but they are surprised to hear it's a 2004 and still in production. I guess if you have a 1991, people mistake it for a newer car, but if you have a late model version, strangers think it is an older car. :frown:

However, I agree with Dave Hardy, the NSX is outdated looking. In my opinion the car became outdated in the late 90s. All the design cues are no longer fresh. What's up with the 3000GT headlight treatment? It's better looking than the pop-ups in my opinion, but Honda failed big time in trying to emulate the 360. The rear end is probably the worst part of the car; it looks so dated. The interior though thoughtfully designed and very intuitive, clearly looks dated as well. This car is 15 years old with only minimal updates over its production life. Calling the NSX outdated is not heresy, but reality.

There is no question the NSX was way ahead of its time in 1990 and has aged gracefully over the years, but it definitely is showing wrinkles and gray hair. Also, what's under the wrinkled skin is no longer muscle.
 
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Ok, time for me to chime in. My friends are all car designers, I was trained as a car designer at art center and from our professional point of view: Yes the NSX is definetly dated. It is still cool looking (just like an F40 and even the countach), but as the thread started stated...it is old looking. The average person with no car design background might not see the details, but are rather blown away by porportions and its "exotic" stance.

But guys, the design has aged gracefully. I'm glad honda is finally retiring this super model. I kind of compare the NSX to Demi Moore...sexy, but you could still tell that she's passed her prime. :cool:
 
Spinner said:
Ok, time for me to chime in. My friends are all car designers, I was trained as a car designer at art center and from our professional point of view: Yes the NSX is definetly dated. It is still cool looking (just like an F40 and even the countach), but as the thread started stated...it is old looking. The average person with no car design background might not see the details, but are rather blown away by porportions and its "exotic" stance.

Could you give some insight into what NSX design elements peg the car as an older design? I'm looking at pictures of the NSX, comparing it to some modern cars like the Carrera GT, Zonda, Murcielago, F430, all the Mercedes and BMWs, the 911 and Boxster, other Hondas like the S2000, Accord and Civic... And I'm having a very difficult time picking out anything that says "I was designed in the late '80s!"

There's only two aspects I can see that suggest it wasn't penned last year - first, I agree with the others about the 17" wheels. They're relatively small for a MY05 supercar. Second, relatively large front and rear overhangs. A common design element these days seems to involve pushing the wheels to the corners as far as possible.

Other than that...? I don't see it. At some point during the early 90s, designs switch from the hard-edged 80s to the swoopy 90s (compar 2nd and 3rd generation Preludes for example.) The NSX has it's own style, however. Sleek and elegant, it does not rely on any gimmicks that I can see that would date it to any period.
 
The average person with no car design background might not see the details, but are rather blown away by porportions and its "exotic" stance.

I think that's about 99.9% of the population of the world...

I think this statement contradicts itself!!

People are also blown away by a Pantera or Testarossa, but NO ONE could ever realistically think that those cars could be even 2-3 years old!!

I think we all get just too many comments about the age of the car to call it an outdated design.

I think it seems outdated b/c we're all so used to it and we're yearning for an HSC!!

I've already gone on record saying that the NSX would benefit greatly from a redesign, improving on what's already great.

The rear end is probably the worst part of the car; it looks so dated.

NSXTASY would disagree with you here, right, Ken?! :biggrin:

I'm looking at pictures of the NSX, comparing it to some modern cars like the Carrera GT, Zonda, Murcielago, F430, all the Mercedes and BMWs, the 911 and Boxster, other Hondas like the S2000, Accord and Civic... And I'm having a very difficult time picking out anything that says "I was designed in the late '80s!"

Indeed;

The NSX was ahead of it's time in 1990. How far ahead? To me, saying that it's comparable in looks today with all the above mentioned is right on the mark. Now, I'm sure in 5-7 years, things will have progressed beyond that and even I will admit that the NSX could not be mistaken for a new exotic given the current designs. But to me, all the other cars in that class have not moved that far beyond the NSX yet.
 
Elistan said:
Could you give some insight into what NSX design elements peg the car as an older design? I'm looking at pictures of the NSX, comparing it to some modern cars like the Carrera GT, Zonda, Murcielago, F430, all the Mercedes and BMWs, the 911 and Boxster, other Hondas like the S2000, Accord and Civic... And I'm having a very difficult time picking out anything that says "I was designed in the late '80s!"

There's only two aspects I can see that suggest it wasn't penned last year - first, I agree with the others about the 17" wheels. They're relatively small for a MY05 supercar. Second, relatively large front and rear overhangs. A common design element these days seems to involve pushing the wheels to the corners as far as possible.

Other than that...? I don't see it. At some point during the early 90s, designs switch from the hard-edged 80s to the swoopy 90s (compar 2nd and 3rd generation Preludes for example.) The NSX has it's own style, however. Sleek and elegant, it does not rely on any gimmicks that I can see that would date it to any period.

The first obvious part is the rear end. Most bumbers nowdays are "designed" or integrated into the rest of the car. The NSX bumper is much like a shelf. An S2000's is also like a shelf, but with a curve to it. The perfect example is the TT or G35 coupe for bumpers. Another example is the taillight. It has the simplicity of an 80's stereo system or what we automotive designers call "Robocop design" :D The lenses used are also another giveaway. Most lenses used nowdays are clear red without the "filter" element. Rx-8, Audi Lemans, Infinity FX and G35 are good examples again.

Another thing is the design "language". The NSX resembles the earlier preludes in terms of design language...just a much more superior one ofcourse. Its very mechanical and angular, but different than today's angular designs (Cadillac, Gallardo, HSC, Z4) The new cars use what we call "Faceted" design..similar to jewels or like the stealth fighters (BMW has their own "Flame Design")

Overhang is the one you already mentioned. Another clue are the creases. Technology has come such a long ways when it comes to stamping material. The tolerances are higher now, enabling sharper creases in sheet metal.

Another clue are trim pieces...ie the silver strip on the doors by the base of the window. Weather seals also look different now. another trend followed nowdays (in terms of porportion) is what we call "beltline". The beltline is raised higher (S2000, 350z, Vanquish, TT, A4) making the green house (cabin) seem smaller. That's why the newer cars have that "slab sided" look. The driver seems like he's sitting lower in the car with the top of the door all the way up to his ears. Cars are starting to look more and more like our sketches and design concepts.

I remember the TT being a major breakthrough for car designers...finally the designers get recognition rather than just designers. The TT didn't do anything special other than prove that a designer in control and make a successful car.

Ok, the most obvious are the pop headlights and interior, but thats why we have the '02 facelift...unfortunetly for the trained eye (even though its quite a looker :) ) it wasn't enough to disguise the overall age of the car.

I post more when I can remember. I hope that helped. :redface:

Ps. The same goes for movies...Star Wars...the techniques, quality, sound, lighting, editing, designs etc. are old, but are they bad? Nope. In fact I think Ralph Mcquary is a better designer than Doug Chiang.
 
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NSXGMS said:
I think that's about 99.9% of the population of the world...

I think this statement contradicts itself!!

People are also blown away by a Pantera or Testarossa, but NO ONE could ever realistically think that those cars could be even 2-3 years old!!

I think we all get just too many comments about the age of the car to call it an outdated design.

I think it seems outdated b/c we're all so used to it and we're yearning for an HSC!!

I've already gone on record saying that the NSX would benefit greatly from a redesign, improving on what's already great.


Again, don't take these as flames against the NSX. I love mine, but it is a classic.


NSXTASY would disagree with you here, right, Ken?! :biggrin:



Indeed;

The NSX was ahead of it's time in 1990. How far ahead? To me, saying that it's comparable in looks today with all the above mentioned is right on the mark. Now, I'm sure in 5-7 years, things will have progressed beyond that and even I will admit that the NSX could not be mistaken for a new exotic given the current designs. But to me, all the other cars in that class have not moved that far beyond the NSX yet.


Actually you'll be surprised that alot of people know that the f40, testarossa and Pantera are old. What alot of folks here don't realise is that the reason most people can't believe that the NSX is that old, is because of the condition it is in. I'm guessing that most people on Prime keep their NSX's in top condition. Paint looks new, leather is fairly decent, no ricer mismatched panels or bondo colored bumpers and fenders :D.

Another example is the Rx-7. The rx-7 is by far considered one of the most beautiful designs to come out of Japan (IMO better looking than the NSX). I used to own one. I then sold it for an S2k. I loved the S2k's interior. I then sold it for an NSX. Just today, my coworker picked up a new S2k. We went for a drive....that's when it hit me how old the NSX design really was. I kinda missed my S2k. Do I want it back? It would be nice, but I'd never trade it for the NSX.
 
Spinner said:
Another clue are trim pieces...ie the silver strip on the doors by the base of the window. Weather seals also look different now. another trend followed nowdays (in terms of porportion) is what we call "beltline". The beltline is raised higher (S2000, 350z, Vanquish, TT, A4) making the green house (cabin) seem smaller. That's why the newer cars have that "slab sided" look. The driver seems like he's sitting lower in the car with the top of the door all the way up to his ears. Cars are starting to look more and more like our sketches and design concepts.

The extremely low beltline of the late 80s/early 90s Hondas is something I really miss in new cars. I have an old EF Civic, and the low beltline and the panoramic view of the road it affords is one of its best features. The same holds true for the NSX. After test driving the 350Z, I was really put off by the "sitting in a bathtub" feel that it gives you. The door handles are way down near the bottom of the door because the door itself is so tall. Contrast this with the NSX dash, where you are looking down and away at its surface. The trailing edge of the hood is very low, and you have that great view of the road. It really is one of the nicest traits of the Hondas of this era. You can see the low beltline in the older Preludes (3rd & 4th generation, especially), Civics, and the older Accords (with pop-up headlamps).
 
Gansan said:
The extremely low beltline of the late 80s/early 90s Hondas is something I really miss in new cars. I have an old EF Civic, and the low beltline and the panoramic view of the road it affords is one of its best features. The same holds true for the NSX. After test driving the 350Z, I was really put off by the "sitting in a bathtub" feel that it gives you. The door handles are way down near the bottom of the door because the door itself is so tall. Contrast this with the NSX dash, where you are looking down and away at its surface. The trailing edge of the hood is very low, and you have that great view of the road. It really is one of the nicest traits of the Hondas of this era. You can see the low beltline in the older Preludes (3rd & 4th generation, especially), Civics, and the older Accords (with pop-up headlamps).

Exactly. although visibility of the NSX and earlier honda's are unbeatable, design wise, they look a little awkward nowdays. I was sitting in my friend's corvette, and then he sat in my NSX. Our comments were the same. The visibility is incredible in the NSX. But I guess thats the way the cookie crumbles. Take a look at earlier BMWs...the green house is so "square". The windshield hardly has any rake to it. But compare it the the 3 series nowdays, the whole car is alot more aerodynamic. To tell you the truth, I kind of like the new "claustraphobic" feel of new cars. Almost feels like I'm in a space ship or something :biggrin:
 
Spinner said:
Another thing is the design "language". The NSX resembles the earlier preludes in terms of design language...just a much more superior one ofcourse. Its very mechanical and angular, but different than today's angular designs (Cadillac, Gallardo, HSC, Z4) The new cars use what we call "Faceted" design..similar to jewels or like the stealth fighters (BMW has their own "Flame Design")
Thank you Spinner. I am very enlightened to read such analytical post. I always think the 1990 to 1993 Integras and the 1992+Preludes have bits and pieces that look like NSX. In fact, I often give the Integras and Preludes second looks just because they instantly remind me of the NSX. I like the NSX look from day one, but I cannot say I love its look. I always think the car looks too narrow and long and somewhat generic like the Camaros, 3000GT, and so on. I keep buying them just because I think they are the best car/value at that used car price range. If I were to spend $100k today for a car, I probably will get an early Modena. Then again, I don't have that alotment to spend on a car. I am very satisfied with what my NSX is and how little money I need to spend on it. That's the best compromise I have.
Steve
 
Spinner said:
The first obvious part is the rear end. Most bumbers nowdays are "designed" or integrated into the rest of the car. The NSX bumper is much like a shelf. An S2000's is also like a shelf, but with a curve to it. The perfect example is the TT or G35 coupe for bumpers. Another example is the taillight. It has the simplicity of an 80's stereo system or what we automotive designers call "Robocop design" :D The lenses used are also another giveaway. Most lenses used nowdays are clear red without the "filter" element. Rx-8, Audi Lemans, Infinity FX and G35 are good examples again.

Another thing is the design "language". The NSX resembles the earlier preludes in terms of design language...just a much more superior one ofcourse. Its very mechanical and angular, but different than today's angular designs (Cadillac, Gallardo, HSC, Z4) The new cars use what we call "Faceted" design..similar to jewels or like the stealth fighters (BMW has their own "Flame Design")

Overhang is the one you already mentioned. Another clue are the creases. Technology has come such a long ways when it comes to stamping material. The tolerances are higher now, enabling sharper creases in sheet metal.

Another clue are trim pieces...ie the silver strip on the doors by the base of the window. Weather seals also look different now. another trend followed nowdays (in terms of porportion) is what we call "beltline". The beltline is raised higher (S2000, 350z, Vanquish, TT, A4) making the green house (cabin) seem smaller. That's why the newer cars have that "slab sided" look. The driver seems like he's sitting lower in the car with the top of the door all the way up to his ears. Cars are starting to look more and more like our sketches and design concepts.

I remember the TT being a major breakthrough for car designers...finally the designers get recognition rather than just designers. The TT didn't do anything special other than prove that a designer in control and make a successful car.

Ok, the most obvious are the pop headlights and interior, but thats why we have the '02 facelift...unfortunetly for the trained eye (even though its quite a looker :) ) it wasn't enough to disguise the overall age of the car.

I post more when I can remember. I hope that helped. :redface:

Ps. The same goes for movies...Star Wars...the techniques, quality, sound, lighting, editing, designs etc. are old, but are they bad? Nope. In fact I think Ralph Mcquary is a better designer than Doug Chiang.


Very impressive dissection of the NSX's styling cues. I look forward to reading more about the various terminology and etc. Thank you.
 
Spinner, great to have you disect the NSX's aesthetics. Please explain why was Porsche more succesful over a much longer period of time in keeping the basically "ugly" design of the 911 so current with the times. I once asked Freeman Thomas that question but his answer was very biased as he worked at Weissach at the time and owned a 911. Why couldn't Honda have done the same with the NSX.
 
bboxer said:
Spinner, great to have you disect the NSX's aesthetics. Please explain why was Porsche more succesful over a much longer period of time in keeping the basically "ugly" design of the 911 so current with the times. I once asked Freeman Thomas that question but his answer was very biased as he worked at Weissach at the time and owned a 911. Why couldn't Honda have done the same with the NSX.

Since 1989, the 911 Carrera has gone through four substantial redesigns leading up to the current 997 version. In my opinion, the NSX has not gone through anything I would consider one substantial redesign, let alone four.

Porsche has an extremely loyal following for it's 911, something that Honda could only dream of having and will never have. Porsche has probably invested hundreds of millions of dollars over the past 15 years refining and improving its venerable 911 Carrera. Honda on the otherhand has probably only spent a small fraction in development money. It should come as no surprise that the Carrera has clearly surpassed the NSX and will continue to evolve for decades to come and the NSX's lineage finally comes to an end this year.
 
Surff78 said:
NOWNOW people... the NSX with the FX500 Compare that.. Good luck
Where have you been? This thread is about styling, and the FX500 doesn't change one bit of the styling of the NSX....
 
I agree a with a lot of points made her, specially with Steve. I like the NSX look a lot (it is my third one) but I do not consider it to be in the top 5 car looks.

I keep on buying them because for the money they are the best value.

I do not understand people that buy a new RX-8 or a 350Z. For that money I get a 1991-1994 NSX... :D

I do not understand people that buy a 90k NSX or a "future" 90k HSC. For that money I get a 1999-2000 F360... ;)

As simple as that. :cool:

As a side plus: the used ones (NSX in the first case, the 360 in the second) are very close to their bottom value. For the new cars the loss will be dramatic over the coming years..
 
gheba_nsx said:
I agree a with a lot of points made her, specially with Steve. I like the NSX look a lot (it is my third one) but I do not consider it to be in the top 5 car looks.

I keep on buying them because for the money they are the best value.

I do not understand people that buy a new RX-8 or a 350Z. For that money I get a 1991-1994 NSX... :D

I do not understand people that buy a 90k NSX or a "future" 90k HSC. For that money I get a 1999-2000 F360... ;)

As simple as that. :cool:

As a side plus: the used ones (NSX in the first case, the 360 in the second) are very close to their bottom value. For the new cars the loss will be dramatic over the coming years..
And yes, Giuseppe, the last time I saw the European NSX at the 2002 Paris Mondial, it was retailed at 125k Euros and the Modena was something like 135k Euros. The current NSX is simply a laughing stock in the European market. Some people do buy them there because they are probably even more exclusive than the Enzo in Europe.
Steve
 
Dave Hardy said:
....The NSX is pretty, but when surrounded by several hundred '05 model cars, its age shows. .... She's still got what it takes, but you can't help but feel a little bad for her, as her prime is past.
Time to rename the site Lud:

NSXPastItsPrime

Or maybe more appropriately, NSXClassic
 
D'Ecosse said:
Time to rename the site Lud:

NSXPastItsPrime

Or maybe more appropriately, NSXClassic

Hi

Well I cruised downtown tonight and had people shouting "woooohoos" to me. Giving me thumbs up and coming over when in the middle of the street when I waited for green light.

For a "has been" car it was pretty good for my ego :biggrin:

I also had this kid coming over. He said he had been dreaming about the NSX since he played PS2 Gran Turismo 1 :biggrin: I really made his day when I let the Tubi's roar.

I would say that my car is the biggest head turner in town and thats pretty good for a 14 year old car. Well my town is not that big about 20.000 people, but what other car could I buy that do what the NSX do for both me and others? A Ferrari? Yes, but that is not going to happen.

For the same price as I payed for my NSX included all the crazy tax I can get a 1988 Ferrari 328 a 1994 Toyota Supra TT, 2001 Porsche Boxter and so on. The NSX is more rare and a better car in many ways then any of those cars.

Giuseppe is correct. Buying a new NSX is crazy when you consider what else is out there. (A new NSX is about $190.000 here).

I can not imagine buying any other car in the same league as the NSX in the future. What car could that be? And what would it cost? I must win the lottery to make that happend.

I will probably keep the NSX I have now for many years to come. Keep taking care of it like I do now and add small things to it to keep it looking fresh. Like maybe change the seat covers and things that makes the car look old.

Update the soundsystem and change the floor mats. Maybe a paint job in ten years time or so.

Still in 5 years time I can turn the key in my NSX cruise downtown and turn heads. Nobody will believe me when I tell them it is a 20 year old car. Nobody believes me now when I tell them it is 14 years old.

NSX a classic? Sure is. Past it's prime? No I do not think so.

Regards
 
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