• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Snap ring class action lawsuit

Lud

Legendary Member
PrimeAdmin
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 3, 2000
Messages
3,942
For anyone not on the e-mail lists, there has been a rather interesting development regarding the snap ring situation lately. I'll simply quote the message that started everything...

Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:04:06 -0400
From: Kenneth Gogel, [email protected]
Subject: Snap Ring Failure 1991, 1992 NXS

I am an attorney representing Ben Gocial, a Philadelphia area NXS owner. Ben had a snap ring failure on his '92 NXS. We have prepared a complaint against Acura for their failure to complete the repair free of charge. As part of our investigation, we are looking for other NXS owners that have had to pay all, or a portion of the repair bill for a snap ring failure.

If you are interested in participating in this litigation, or you would like further information, please contact me.
[email protected]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jul 12, 2001
Messages
82
Location
Meriden, Connecticut
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:04:06 -0400
From: Kenneth Gogel, [email protected]
Subject: Snap Ring Failure 1991, 1992 NXS

I am an attorney representing Ben Gocial, a Philadelphia area NXS owner.

What the hell is an NXS? I hope he learns the name before any trial
smile.gif
 

Lud

Legendary Member
PrimeAdmin
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 3, 2000
Messages
3,942
Mr. Gogel's dyslexic keyboarding notwithstanding, this is a pretty big deal. It sounds like he has several owners on board for the class action. To be honest I am really only surprised it took this long to happen. I expected to see this happen a couple years ago when I heard Acura was starting to refuse to goodwill some of the repairs.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 22, 2000
Messages
7,787
Location
Planet Earth
I have provided a link to the NTSB which has a database for all complaints/concerns regarding defects for automobiles

Just enter in the information requested and you'll get a complete listing of all isures regarding any vehicle.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/servicemmy1.cfm

[This message has been edited by Dr.Lane (edited 01 August 2001).]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 4, 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
I have provided a link to the NTSB which has a database for all complaints/concerns regarding defects for automobiles.

Here's the message I get when I try that link:

"Office of Defects Investigation
Service Bulletins Database

You have not entered any information on which to base a query. Use the back button on your browser to return to the previous screen and enter your choices for make, model or year."


[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 01 August 2001).]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 11, 2000
Messages
1,251
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 4, 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
For anyone not on the e-mail lists, there has been a rather interesting development regarding the snap ring situation lately. I'll simply quote the message that started everything...

There has been heated follow-on discussion there, generated by the following post:

"Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:53:36 -0700
From: Keith Jarett <[email protected]>
Subject: Don't Help This Guy!!! Re: [NSX] Snap Ring Failure 1991, 1992 NSXs

They say that no good deed goes unpunished, and here is the proof. Don't help this guy until he takes the lawyer out of the picture! If you help anyone sue Acura for being inconsistently generous to their customers, you practically guarantee that Acura will become consistently ungenerous, just like the other car companies.

The correct approach is to ask nicely, at successively higher levels if necessary, and always politely. Hiring a lawyer is anti-social: it may work for that one person but it will cost everyone else in the long run. Miled, you are a great guy, but what in the world are you thinking? Do you have any idea how bad this will be for those in Acura who have bent over backwards to be nice to us in most cases? Maybe the club should take up a collection to pay this guy off before he poisons the well... I'm in for $50. Can we get another 99?

My $.02, and not an official opinion of any organization.

Keith Jarett
[email protected]"
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 14, 2000
Messages
296
Location
folsom CA
Originally posted by lemansnsx:
Link doesn't work
frown.gif

Try the main page and do your own search. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/

It does work..
Service Bulletin Number: 93010
Bulletin Sequence Number: 011
Date of Bulletin: 9305
NHTSA Item Number: SB033278
Make: ACURA
Model: NSX
Year: 1992
Component: POWER TRAIN
biggrin.gif
RIVELINE (INDICATOR FORWARD OR REVERSE)
Summary: BROKEN COUNTERSHAFT BEARING SNAP RING. *LDG

------------------
'92 Sebring Silver NSX #181
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 23, 2000
Messages
224
Location
Irvine, CA
I also agree with Keith. I'm curious as to whether the primary complaint holders vehicle was in the snap ring range. If so, did he not do his due diligence on the vehicle? Why did he not have the problem fixed prior to the problem? Was he the second/third/fourth owner of the vehicle? If I was Acura, I wouldn't goodwill the fix if the car did not belong to the original or second owner. Theres just too much uncertainty...
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 17, 2000
Messages
2,493
Location
San Francisco, CA
I have to agree with David.

I am one of the person affected with the snap ring problem. 3 dealers turned me down. The fourth dealer helped me with exception I have to cough up the labor (which is $1400). I had no options other than to take it. Acura did not willingly offer to help, even when I contacted them directly. Only thru a friend, who knows the particular dealer who helped me. That the dealer can pressure Acura to help me. The car had 36K miles at that time.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 4, 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
This is a manufacturing defect, plain and simple. That means Acura has a responsibility to fix it.

They certainly have a responsibility as long as the car is under warranty. But I think one can make an argument that their responsibility doesn't last forever. Are they responsible for cars that have been out of warranty for seven years, that were manufactured ten years ago? Are they responsible for cars with over 100K or 200K miles on them? I think there are some legitimate counter-arguments that their responsibility is not unlimited.

Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons, but I don't think it's at all clear-cut that they have any obligation to do so.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 11, 2000
Messages
1,251
Originally posted by nsxtasy:

They certainly have a responsibility as long as the car is under warranty. But I think one can make an argument that their responsibility doesn't last forever. Are they responsible for cars that have been out of warranty for seven years, that were manufactured ten years ago? Are they responsible for cars with over 100K or 200K miles on them? I think there are some legitimate counter-arguments that their responsibility is not unlimited.

Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons, but I don't think it's at all clear-cut that they have any obligation to do so.

You know, if this was a window regulator, a water pump, or almost anything else on the car, I would agree that Acura's responsibility would be limited. Since, however, we are not dealing with something that should be expected to fail in the life of the automobile I think that Acura should have fixed fixed every one that failed across the board. The transmission cases contain a manufacturing defect that affects the driveability of the car. This is totally different, IMO, than something subjected to a certain number of cycles or the vagaries of owner care or abuse. Acura took the easy way out by acknowedging that the problem existed but making the owner jump through hoops to receive assistance. Three dealers turn someone down and he gets some help at dealer number four because a friend knows someone? Give me a break! In effect they avoided dealing with an unknown number of failed transmissions by limiting the information flow and saving themselves a bunch of money in the process.
I'm generally not a big believer in lawsuits, hell, I wouldn't sue a ladder company if I fell off the top step and I'm certainly not going to sue Ronald if I'm stupid enough to hold a hot coffee in my crotch while driving but I do think that Acura have this one coming. Not saying it is right or wrong, just that it was almost inevitable. You can't be seen to treat one customer differently than another especially not by letting it hinge on the relationship with the dealer.



------------------
The NSX Model List Page
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
688
How much would this cost Acura/Honda anyway? There are only a small number of cars within the snap ring range (at least compared to a recall of any of their other cars.)

Wouldnt it make more sense to just spend the several million and fix all claims rather than spend many more millions to run ad campaigns to repair customer relations (like ford / firestone)?
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 21, 2000
Messages
1,413
Location
Austin, Republic of Texas
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I don't think it's at all clear-cut that they have any obligation to do so.


We are not talking about stuff wearing out; this is clearly a case where there was a manufacturing defect. That has nothing to do with the warranty. If you sell a prodcut with a significant manufacturing defect, you have an obligation to fix it. Period.

One of the the things that really frustrates me about this issue is people saying essentially 'Honda is such a great company, give them a break' or 'Acura helped some of the owners, even though they weren't forced to.' Those arguements are spurious. Honda has a great reputation precisely because they don't pull this kind of BS. If they are as great as we all think they are (I love Honda), then they would not hesitate to make this right.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 02 August 2001).]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 4, 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
Honda has a great reputation precisely because they don't pull this kind of BS. If they are as great as we all think they are (I love Honda), then they would not hesitate to make this right.

That's exactly what I meant when I said, "Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons."
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Messages
12,068
OK so how many people here are going to contact this lawyer?


[This message has been edited by steveny (edited 02 August 2001).]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 21, 2000
Messages
1,413
Location
Austin, Republic of Texas
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
That's exactly what I meant when I said, "Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons."

I agree, but they have demonstrated that they are not going to do this. If legal action is needed to make them do the right thing, then it is unfortunate, but Honda is the party that has driven their customers to this course of action.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 24, 2000
Messages
299
Location
Altoona, PA
How many of you people that are so against this, actually have a car in the snap ring range? I bet everyone that is against this doesn't have to worry about this. I spent a lot of money on my car only to find out afterwards that something major might fail that will require a lot of my hardearned money to fix.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
174
Location
Navarre, FL
Well, I'm no lawyer, but personally I do believe the responsibility belongs to Acura beyond the warranty period, especially for original owners, as this manufacturing defect existed and was recognized before the end of the warranties whether the failure took place then or years down the road. The main reason as this is the result of a manufacturing defect, not normal wear. It has not mandated a recall only because NTSB does not see this as a life threatening defect. If you want to see a company that treated its customers much more fairly look at Buell American Motorcycles. They put out voluntary recalls on nearly every bike they produced this decade. Granted, a few of those problems could have become mandatory recalls eventually, but of the 5 or so recalls done on my bike, all were less serious than the snap ring problem. As far as secondary owners go, I have mixed feelings as it is harder to hold Acura responsible for someone's choice to buy a used car with a recognized problem. I was one of those buyers who made that choice ignorant of the problem, but I can't blame Acura for my lack of homework. I would get a warm fuzzy and build some good brand loyalty however, if Acura corrected their mistake even for us ignorant types.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 9, 2000
Messages
454
Location
Thousand Oaks, Ca.
Congratulations to Joe Schmoe....Johnny, what do we have for the winner!!!
wink.gif


Acura is not going to hold a grudge aginst their loyal customers over losing a suit for a couple million.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 4, 2000
Messages
27,000
Location
Chicago IL
How many of you people that are so against this, actually have a car in the snap ring range? I bet everyone that is against this doesn't have to worry about this.

So you're saying that everyone on this board would argue only for his own individual self-interest, and not out of any concern for what is the right thing to do?

I never made that assumption. I assume that some people may think that it's right for Acura to pay for the repairs even though their cars are not in the snap ring range, just because they think it's right. And that some other people may think that it's right for the owners to pay for the repairs even though their cars are in the snap ring range - again, just because they think it's right. I'm not saying that EVERYONE is deciding based solely on what's right, regardless of self-interest, but that SOME people are.

Am I foolish for believing this?
 
Top