Snap ring class action lawsuit
- Thread starter Lud
- Start date
What the hell is an NXS? I hope he learns the name before any trial
- Joined
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- 3,942
Mr. Gogel's dyslexic keyboarding notwithstanding, this is a pretty big deal. It sounds like he has several owners on board for the class action. To be honest I am really only surprised it took this long to happen. I expected to see this happen a couple years ago when I heard Acura was starting to refuse to goodwill some of the repairs.
I have provided a link to the NTSB which has a database for all complaints/concerns regarding defects for automobiles
Just enter in the information requested and you'll get a complete listing of all isures regarding any vehicle.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/servicemmy1.cfm
[This message has been edited by Dr.Lane (edited 01 August 2001).]
Just enter in the information requested and you'll get a complete listing of all isures regarding any vehicle.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/servicemmy1.cfm
[This message has been edited by Dr.Lane (edited 01 August 2001).]
I agree with Lud. IMO, Acura practically guaranteed that this lawsuit would happen with their inequitable handling of repairs.
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The NSX Model List Page
I have provided a link to the NTSB which has a database for all complaints/concerns regarding defects for automobiles.
Here's the message I get when I try that link:
"Office of Defects Investigation
Service Bulletins Database
You have not entered any information on which to base a query. Use the back button on your browser to return to the previous screen and enter your choices for make, model or year."
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 01 August 2001).]
Here's the message I get when I try that link:
"Office of Defects Investigation
Service Bulletins Database
You have not entered any information on which to base a query. Use the back button on your browser to return to the previous screen and enter your choices for make, model or year."
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 01 August 2001).]
Link doesn't work
Try the main page and do your own search. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/
For anyone not on the e-mail lists, there has been a rather interesting development regarding the snap ring situation lately. I'll simply quote the message that started everything...
There has been heated follow-on discussion there, generated by the following post:
"Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:53:36 -0700
From: Keith Jarett <[email protected]>
Subject: Don't Help This Guy!!! Re: [NSX] Snap Ring Failure 1991, 1992 NSXs
They say that no good deed goes unpunished, and here is the proof. Don't help this guy until he takes the lawyer out of the picture! If you help anyone sue Acura for being inconsistently generous to their customers, you practically guarantee that Acura will become consistently ungenerous, just like the other car companies.
The correct approach is to ask nicely, at successively higher levels if necessary, and always politely. Hiring a lawyer is anti-social: it may work for that one person but it will cost everyone else in the long run. Miled, you are a great guy, but what in the world are you thinking? Do you have any idea how bad this will be for those in Acura who have bent over backwards to be nice to us in most cases? Maybe the club should take up a collection to pay this guy off before he poisons the well... I'm in for $50. Can we get another 99?
My $.02, and not an official opinion of any organization.
Keith Jarett
[email protected]"
There has been heated follow-on discussion there, generated by the following post:
"Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:53:36 -0700
From: Keith Jarett <[email protected]>
Subject: Don't Help This Guy!!! Re: [NSX] Snap Ring Failure 1991, 1992 NSXs
They say that no good deed goes unpunished, and here is the proof. Don't help this guy until he takes the lawyer out of the picture! If you help anyone sue Acura for being inconsistently generous to their customers, you practically guarantee that Acura will become consistently ungenerous, just like the other car companies.
The correct approach is to ask nicely, at successively higher levels if necessary, and always politely. Hiring a lawyer is anti-social: it may work for that one person but it will cost everyone else in the long run. Miled, you are a great guy, but what in the world are you thinking? Do you have any idea how bad this will be for those in Acura who have bent over backwards to be nice to us in most cases? Maybe the club should take up a collection to pay this guy off before he poisons the well... I'm in for $50. Can we get another 99?
My $.02, and not an official opinion of any organization.
Keith Jarett
[email protected]"
Originally posted by lemansnsx:
Link doesn't work
Try the main page and do your own search. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/
It does work..
Service Bulletin Number: 93010
Bulletin Sequence Number: 011
Date of Bulletin: 9305
NHTSA Item Number: SB033278
Make: ACURA
Model: NSX
Year: 1992
Component: POWER TRAIN
Summary: BROKEN COUNTERSHAFT BEARING SNAP RING. *LDG
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'92 Sebring Silver NSX #181
- Joined
- 3 February 2000
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It looks something like this... http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Reference/tsb/93-010.htm
I strongly agree with Keith Jarett!
97-T @18K
97-T @18K
I also agree with Keith. I'm curious as to whether the primary complaint holders vehicle was in the snap ring range. If so, did he not do his due diligence on the vehicle? Why did he not have the problem fixed prior to the problem? Was he the second/third/fourth owner of the vehicle? If I was Acura, I wouldn't goodwill the fix if the car did not belong to the original or second owner. Theres just too much uncertainty...
Compared to what? Selling defective cars and not fixing them? Give me a break.
This is a manufacturing defect, plain and simple. That means Acura has a responsibility to fix it. First owner, 99th owner, whatever. They screwed up, they need to make it right.
I have to agree with David.
I am one of the person affected with the snap ring problem. 3 dealers turned me down. The fourth dealer helped me with exception I have to cough up the labor (which is $1400). I had no options other than to take it. Acura did not willingly offer to help, even when I contacted them directly. Only thru a friend, who knows the particular dealer who helped me. That the dealer can pressure Acura to help me. The car had 36K miles at that time.
I am one of the person affected with the snap ring problem. 3 dealers turned me down. The fourth dealer helped me with exception I have to cough up the labor (which is $1400). I had no options other than to take it. Acura did not willingly offer to help, even when I contacted them directly. Only thru a friend, who knows the particular dealer who helped me. That the dealer can pressure Acura to help me. The car had 36K miles at that time.
This is a manufacturing defect, plain and simple. That means Acura has a responsibility to fix it.
They certainly have a responsibility as long as the car is under warranty. But I think one can make an argument that their responsibility doesn't last forever. Are they responsible for cars that have been out of warranty for seven years, that were manufactured ten years ago? Are they responsible for cars with over 100K or 200K miles on them? I think there are some legitimate counter-arguments that their responsibility is not unlimited.
Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons, but I don't think it's at all clear-cut that they have any obligation to do so.
They certainly have a responsibility as long as the car is under warranty. But I think one can make an argument that their responsibility doesn't last forever. Are they responsible for cars that have been out of warranty for seven years, that were manufactured ten years ago? Are they responsible for cars with over 100K or 200K miles on them? I think there are some legitimate counter-arguments that their responsibility is not unlimited.
Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons, but I don't think it's at all clear-cut that they have any obligation to do so.
You know, if this was a window regulator, a water pump, or almost anything else on the car, I would agree that Acura's responsibility would be limited. Since, however, we are not dealing with something that should be expected to fail in the life of the automobile I think that Acura should have fixed fixed every one that failed across the board. The transmission cases contain a manufacturing defect that affects the driveability of the car. This is totally different, IMO, than something subjected to a certain number of cycles or the vagaries of owner care or abuse. Acura took the easy way out by acknowedging that the problem existed but making the owner jump through hoops to receive assistance. Three dealers turn someone down and he gets some help at dealer number four because a friend knows someone? Give me a break! In effect they avoided dealing with an unknown number of failed transmissions by limiting the information flow and saving themselves a bunch of money in the process.
I'm generally not a big believer in lawsuits, hell, I wouldn't sue a ladder company if I fell off the top step and I'm certainly not going to sue Ronald if I'm stupid enough to hold a hot coffee in my crotch while driving but I do think that Acura have this one coming. Not saying it is right or wrong, just that it was almost inevitable. You can't be seen to treat one customer differently than another especially not by letting it hinge on the relationship with the dealer.
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The NSX Model List Page
How much would this cost Acura/Honda anyway? There are only a small number of cars within the snap ring range (at least compared to a recall of any of their other cars.)
Wouldnt it make more sense to just spend the several million and fix all claims rather than spend many more millions to run ad campaigns to repair customer relations (like ford / firestone)?
Wouldnt it make more sense to just spend the several million and fix all claims rather than spend many more millions to run ad campaigns to repair customer relations (like ford / firestone)?
We are not talking about stuff wearing out; this is clearly a case where there was a manufacturing defect. That has nothing to do with the warranty. If you sell a prodcut with a significant manufacturing defect, you have an obligation to fix it. Period.
One of the the things that really frustrates me about this issue is people saying essentially 'Honda is such a great company, give them a break' or 'Acura helped some of the owners, even though they weren't forced to.' Those arguements are spurious. Honda has a great reputation precisely because they don't pull this kind of BS. If they are as great as we all think they are (I love Honda), then they would not hesitate to make this right.
[This message has been edited by David (edited 02 August 2001).]
Honda has a great reputation precisely because they don't pull this kind of BS. If they are as great as we all think they are (I love Honda), then they would not hesitate to make this right.
That's exactly what I meant when I said, "Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons."
That's exactly what I meant when I said, "Maybe it would be a good thing for Acura to fix them for practical reasons."
I agree, but they have demonstrated that they are not going to do this. If legal action is needed to make them do the right thing, then it is unfortunate, but Honda is the party that has driven their customers to this course of action.
How many of you people that are so against this, actually have a car in the snap ring range? I bet everyone that is against this doesn't have to worry about this. I spent a lot of money on my car only to find out afterwards that something major might fail that will require a lot of my hardearned money to fix.
Well, I'm no lawyer, but personally I do believe the responsibility belongs to Acura beyond the warranty period, especially for original owners, as this manufacturing defect existed and was recognized before the end of the warranties whether the failure took place then or years down the road. The main reason as this is the result of a manufacturing defect, not normal wear. It has not mandated a recall only because NTSB does not see this as a life threatening defect. If you want to see a company that treated its customers much more fairly look at Buell American Motorcycles. They put out voluntary recalls on nearly every bike they produced this decade. Granted, a few of those problems could have become mandatory recalls eventually, but of the 5 or so recalls done on my bike, all were less serious than the snap ring problem. As far as secondary owners go, I have mixed feelings as it is harder to hold Acura responsible for someone's choice to buy a used car with a recognized problem. I was one of those buyers who made that choice ignorant of the problem, but I can't blame Acura for my lack of homework. I would get a warm fuzzy and build some good brand loyalty however, if Acura corrected their mistake even for us ignorant types.
Congratulations to Joe Schmoe....Johnny, what do we have for the winner!!!
Acura is not going to hold a grudge aginst their loyal customers over losing a suit for a couple million.
Acura is not going to hold a grudge aginst their loyal customers over losing a suit for a couple million.
How many of you people that are so against this, actually have a car in the snap ring range? I bet everyone that is against this doesn't have to worry about this.
So you're saying that everyone on this board would argue only for his own individual self-interest, and not out of any concern for what is the right thing to do?
I never made that assumption. I assume that some people may think that it's right for Acura to pay for the repairs even though their cars are not in the snap ring range, just because they think it's right. And that some other people may think that it's right for the owners to pay for the repairs even though their cars are in the snap ring range - again, just because they think it's right. I'm not saying that EVERYONE is deciding based solely on what's right, regardless of self-interest, but that SOME people are.
Am I foolish for believing this?
So you're saying that everyone on this board would argue only for his own individual self-interest, and not out of any concern for what is the right thing to do?
I never made that assumption. I assume that some people may think that it's right for Acura to pay for the repairs even though their cars are not in the snap ring range, just because they think it's right. And that some other people may think that it's right for the owners to pay for the repairs even though their cars are in the snap ring range - again, just because they think it's right. I'm not saying that EVERYONE is deciding based solely on what's right, regardless of self-interest, but that SOME people are.
Am I foolish for believing this?
