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Stock NSX track setup - any weak points?

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13 December 2009
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I just sold my track car (street legal S2000). I don't do many track days (about 5-8 a year). I typically run in the instructor group or advanced. I haven't bought a NSX yet, but it will mainly be a weekend car with those 5 to 8 track days a year. I don't plan on doing any modifications unless I need to do modifications for reliability on the track. I am leaning towards having a nice car that is track worthy as opposed to a track car that can drive on the street.

Are there any weak points in the 1st gen NSX for track driving? Any required or highly suggested modifications (besides the typical get the proper tires and brake pads)?

Any nice to haves? (for example going square on the S2000 with appropriate sway bars really made the car turn/stop better).

If this has been covered before, please respond with the appropriate threads.

Thanks.
 
Its all been covered but ill give you the cliff notes- train of thought as I wait for my pizza to heat in the oven


NSX is an older car and will need some refresh before you really want to start to flog it on track. Normal maitinence items can be double of what your used to with the S2000 and a 'going through' at 60k will typically set you back as much as most of the cars that you will likely be on track with. My advise if your going to track it is find something with some patina but all the maintenance up to date. If you REALLY plan on tracking get a coupe the targas are inherently compliant and getting one just to behave like a coupe takes $$$ and weight in braces.

Transmission has a 'snapring' failure, google it. Including myself i know of two other NSX owners that track and had has theirs fail even though we specifically bought our cars outside the effected vin range.
Oil temps run high, especially on track
Water cooling is decent but there are more coolant hoses than you think, and they all can ruin your day.
Stock brakes are good balance is awesome but early ABS is crap.
The NSX had 270hp, if you accept that you'll save BIG MONEY building a high hp reliable track car. its been done to great result but it not the norm. For me the motor 'meh'- the chassis is where the magic is.
The car has camber limits that are pretty conservative and to change them requires pressing in new metal bushings.
Tire width on the front is limited to about an 8inch wheel under stock fenders
Are you tall? you'll probably need a seat with a ultra low base to fit in with a helmet.
A relatively small incursion with a barrier can total your car.
The OEM compliance bushings built into the rear subframe means toe deflection under sustained load and big static toe numbers to cure snap over steer. you can press in heim joints but again your pressing in metal to metal.
You will have a HUGE target on your car when at the track. Everyone wants to have a video where their civic 'beats' an NSX.
There are only really about 3-5 performance parts vendors for the NSX. Some have a sorted history and some no longer stock the stuff most track guys are looking for.
There is however a small contingent of dedicated track guys that are an awesome resource and constantly finding better and cheaper ways to mod.
 
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Without spending a bunch of money;
change all fluids and get higher temp brake fluid
better brake pads
take stone sheilds off front brakes
install NSX-R chassis bars
heavier front sway bars
change to the non-compliance bits from SOS or similar
get sticky tyres
get alignment
you can always do more but that is the starting point to the downward spiral of track mods
oh and lastly put your foot up it
 
You are going to have a good time. Coilovers are nice at the track, but the ride offtrack is not so good. Find a way to hold yourself better in the seat.
Lance
 
Thanks.

Again, my S2000 was a well sorted. quick and fun track car and I am looking for a different experience.... more towards a "street" experience that is fun on the track and not a track car that is only tolerable to get home from the track. If I get a NSX, it will remain mostly stock besides some of the things that you guys listed above. Thanks again.
 
davidnyc - here are a couple threads that might help you get up to speed. The following are two builds. Both have slightly different approaches but both are track driven.

illwillem - awesome car. meticulous build. high quality stuff and no shortcuts taken. FAST driver and car.
www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.p...-updates-and-question-for-track-minded-people

mine - well... I started off as you are now. thinking my car was to be a street car first with occasional track days here and there. It's still this way but as you achieve your own version of a perfect street/track car you might experience that it takes a lot of effort and a lot of compromise to build a street car capable of being track reliable imo. It's easy to achieve the basics though. Most don't go as overboard as I did.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...-quot-properly-molested-quot-NSX-build-thread

Good luck on your build!
 
Bare Bones Track setup:
-Tires that will put up with it (if you get an earlier car, you may want to spring for some 16/17 or 17/17 wheels to keep options open)
-Brake Pads
-Sway bar(s)

You'll have a little more fun with:
-Good adjustable shocks or coilovers (I run the KWs that Stuntman mentioned, and they are comfortable on the street unless the roads get REALLY crappy)
-Some brake cooling
-A slightly rowdy exhaust (IMHO)

You'll help keep things running nicely with:
-An oil cooler
-A slightly more efficient radiator
-A balancer shield (look up harmonic dampener delamination....)

In ANY case:
-Replace all coolant hoses (ALL coolant hoses)
-As mentioned if you look at a '91/'92, check the snap ring threads
-I'd put a baffle in the oil pan regardless...just my opinion.

The car doesn't have many "achilles heels" aside from potential oil starvation on R-comps, and the harmonic balancer thing. I mean hell, my car has 248,000 miles on the original reciprocating assembly and chassis and it's put up with a dozen or so events in the past year and a half and a few more spread-out before then.
 
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I just sold my track car (street legal S2000). I don't do many track days (about 5-8 a year). I typically run in the instructor group or advanced.

my S2000 was a well sorted. quick and fun track car and I am looking for a different experience.... more towards a "street" experience that is fun on the track and not a track car that is only tolerable to get home from the track. If I get a NSX, it will remain mostly stock besides some of the things that you guys listed above. Thanks again.

You sound like me 6 years ago. I sold my 91 NSX track car because it was too track to be used for any other purpose, I bought a 2004 garage queen because I was not going to track the new car and keep it for street only use. Well here we are and the 2004 now has 30+ track days in the past two years alone. If the budget allows buy two cars, one for street and one for track use. The compromises between the two are far too great to really find a happy middle ground. This might work for you but it is not working for me. I intend to keep the 2004 and find or build a dedicated track car.

Here are a couple more things to consider, 5-8 track days a year is about average for most guys and depending on your abilities and tire choice can cause a significant level of wear on a few costly items.

1. If your looking at an older coupe that has seen some track time be aware that Ball Joints are EXPENSIVE, and I am not talking about hundreds but thousands to replace them all on a single courner of the car. They are reliable and can last but if tracked with R-Comps you will have to do them someday. A lot of guys track untill the car shows signs of needing ball joints then they sell them and move on to a newer or different car. So check out your potencial buy.

2. The age of these cars is making the average major service (timing belt & water pump) much more expensive, you will see issues with spool valve seals, cam plugs, valve cover leaks, oil pan leaks, coolant hose failures. These items are age issues not design issues but they can push the price of a major service up into the 2-4k range. This applies to tracked or non-tracked cars. Once fixed you are good for at least 7-10 years of happy driving.

3. Most likely if you buy an older car it will have had at least one clutch replacement and maybe an aftermarket clutch. With the stock power and a good driver clutch life is less than average compared to most other cars. The twin disk clutch in the early cars wear quickly and are expensive to replace, good news is you have many after market choices that are a better product and at a lower price than OEM, but clutch prices start at about $1200.00 for the parts and labor much higher than a S2000 clutch service.

4. If you are like me you want the paint and body to be perfect on your pride and joy, If you track your pristine baby you can forget about the pristine paint. For some reason the paint of the front of these cars almost jumps off the body work in order to avoid being hit by debris from the track. 3M the front bumber, hood, fenders, rear bumper skirt, and rockers if you like your paint.

5. If you have an off and bend anything, either suspension or body it is going to be a very expensive repair. There are few choices for aftermarket body parts and almost no other choice than OEM for suspension arms. Used parts are very hard to find.

If I sound like I am trying to talk you out of what you are about to do I am not. I have tracked all three of the NSXs that I have owned. They are a lot of fun but they are much more expensive to track than other cars, and very expensive if you have that competative thing that makes you want to be the fastest guy among you buddies. These cars are amazing things to own and use, due to depriciation being almost non-existant cost of ownership can be very low for a sports car, but compared to a M3, S2000, RX8, Z06, and a handfull of other cars the cost to track a NSX is very expensive in an already expensive hobby.

Dave
 
There's very little that you HAVE to change to take the NSX out on the track. I put over 13,000 actual track miles on my NSX. The drivetrain was bone stock throughout that period, and I was using the stock tires and brake pads for the first half of its track life. The only change I made to the suspension was when the shocks needed replacing, and I went with Bilsteins; I never did sway bars or springs. It all worked just fine bone stock. Granted, you may want to swap things out if you have a lot of track experience and you want to improve your lap times. But I strongly recommend an incremental approach. Drive it as is (presumably stock) and only make changes in areas that you feel really need changing. Most of the upgrades mentioned above are not at all necessary IMHO, so decide for yourself what you feel you absolutely must change.

The one thing I changed for purposes of track readiness were minor changes to the brakes, and even there I was using the stock calipers. I used high-temperature brake fluid (mostly Motul RBF 600) and I had some high-temp ducting installed, running from the front air dam to holes that I had cut on the splash shields, so the airflow went directly onto the rotors. (These required periodic replacement because they would eventually fray or wear.) Both of these items - brake fluid and ducting - are inexpensive. As already noted, the stock brake pads are adequate for track use assuming you bed them properly; otherwise, as with all streetable pads, you can encounter "green pad syndrome" (in which the brakes fade the first and maybe second track session, after that it won't happen for the remaining life of the pad). I used a lot of sets of Hawk HP+ for street-track use, but they dust heavily, and the stock pads may be a better choice for mixed use for that reason.

I never had any problems keeping the paint on my car in pristine shape without getting 3M treatments - not that those are a bad idea though. I just kept it waxed, used touch-up on the occasional chip (more likely incurred on the way to or from the track, not on the track), and used various gentle products (usually Zymol HD-Cleanse) to buff off the inevitable black marks from rubber "marbles" kicked up by cars I was following.

Some of the above advice has to do with general maintenance of the NSX, and has nothing to do with whether or not it's used on the track. I wholeheartedly endorse taking good care of your car, to avoid problems (which may be worse if something breaks on the track, but you don't want happening anywhere). Dave Dozier has a lot of good advice in his lengthy post above. For your reference, ballpark prices including parts and labor are around $1500-2000 for replacing a ball joint (on one side), $2500 for replacing a clutch (that's on a '91-96; it's closer to $4000 for a '97-05 six-speed), and $1500-2000 for a timing belt and water pump replacement. Yes, those prices are more than for most other cars; however, the cost of other scheduled maintenance, like fluids and filters and hoses, is not out of line with most other cars. Also, clutches do not last as long on the NSX as on most other cars; 35-60K miles are typical for cars not tracked. (I had two that each lasted 40K total miles including 6K track miles.) It's also worth noting that unexpected repairs on other systems (A/C, etc) can be expensive. Fortunately, some of the repairs on the stereo and climate control involve circuit boards that NSXprime member Briank refurbishes so the cost is $100-200 instead of ten times that amount.

All in all, I would say the NSX does not need many (or even any) changes for track use. But it is not an inexpensive car to track.
 
I have nothing to add, but i can't wait to see you at MSR!
 
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