why can supra's reach such high HP and low 1/4 mile times and the nsx cannot?
is it because of the room in the engine bay for mods in the supra is bigger? or ...?
is it because of the room in the engine bay for mods in the supra is bigger? or ...?
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Supra vs. NSX??
- Thread starter Fatal-NSX
- Start date
It's because the Supra has a turbo setup in stock form.
Turbo allows for much higher boost than stock if modified, which again leads to more power.
What people tent to "forget" is that these kinds of mods. do cost a lot of money if a high reliability is to be maintained.
For the same money these powerlevels can be reached for the NSX as well, but the entry price (i.e. for the car is higher) and the entry price for a turbo or supercharger setup is higher than the Supra, because it does not have it stock from the factory.
i assume you ask because there are tons of high HP Supras and none or few high power NSX's?
Turbo allows for much higher boost than stock if modified, which again leads to more power.
What people tent to "forget" is that these kinds of mods. do cost a lot of money if a high reliability is to be maintained.
For the same money these powerlevels can be reached for the NSX as well, but the entry price (i.e. for the car is higher) and the entry price for a turbo or supercharger setup is higher than the Supra, because it does not have it stock from the factory.
i assume you ask because there are tons of high HP Supras and none or few high power NSX's?
I recall an issue of NSX Driver with an interview with Bob Hogan. Bob sold his heavily modded 400+hp Supra for a stock 95 NSX and his lap times were quicker at Road Atlanta. The NSX's lighter weight, superb balance, brakes and grip meant it was faster with less power at the track.
Some people are interested in the vehicle's entire performance capabilities rather than just its 1/4 mile times.
Some people are interested in the vehicle's entire performance capabilities rather than just its 1/4 mile times.
I think the Supra is the perfect car for anyone who is primarily concerned with horsepower and 1/4 mile times.
i see,
so supras dominate the 1/4 mile and NSX dominate the track.
so supras dominate the 1/4 mile and NSX dominate the track.
Fatal-NSX said:
A modded Supra, yes. But when you talk about modded cars, anything is game. That's why stock vs stock comparisons is the only thing that I'm personally concerned with.
BITeR said:
So the NSX can reach the same powerlevels as the high powerlevels the supras attain when modified but for more money?
So the NSX can compete in 1/4 mile after all if there is a lot of money put in to it.
BITeR said:
yea that's why i asked and also because the supra twin turbo stock is 320hp and the 97+ NSX is 290hp so the difference in hp is only 30hp.
If I may offer some insight based on owning both a 2003 nsx and 1997 Supra TT (single turbo 650 HP). First of all they are both fantastic cars, but two completely different machines. The NSX is in a different class. It is an absoulute dream to drive and it has Exotic status. However do not count the Supra out to quickly, the Supra engine is pretty much and anomaly. It can be boosted to very high HP without much investment (comparatively) and is rock soild bullet proof (if done right). It is a much heaver car than the NSX and the feel is totally different, however it does still handle very well and I would not say that the NSX would easily out perform it in handling. I get as many thumbs up with the Supra as I do in the NSX, actually more people recognize the Supra and I often hear "Wow is that a Supra". The NSX usually rates a glass eyed stare and general frothing at the mouth..Haaaa
Neither car is good for blending in with the crowd. Both cars are exceptional in their own rights. The coments I hear most from people I know when they see my NSX are "I can't believe you bought a NSX, That's my dream car!" "So, you want to sell your Supra?" Reply "Not anytime soon". Enjoy the ride, what ever you
drive....
Neither car is good for blending in with the crowd. Both cars are exceptional in their own rights. The coments I hear most from people I know when they see my NSX are "I can't believe you bought a NSX, That's my dream car!" "So, you want to sell your Supra?" Reply "Not anytime soon". Enjoy the ride, what ever you
drive....
I beg to differ...
I would say a Fox Body 5.0 is the perfect car for horsepower and 1/4 mile times....much cheaper and can me made much faster.
The supra is a straight line car easily over the NSX, put twin turbos on an NSX then it will be a better match...
NSX is easily an exotic over the Supra as well..
IT's to easy to make big HP with this car, and the RX7 ( another contender from back then) just bolt on a downpipe, cats off, and exhaust and youre good to go.
THe Rx7 is the closest from those years in looks compared to our cars...
NSX is easily an exotic over the Supra as well..
IT's to easy to make big HP with this car, and the RX7 ( another contender from back then) just bolt on a downpipe, cats off, and exhaust and youre good to go.
THe Rx7 is the closest from those years in looks compared to our cars...
Fatal-NSX said:So the NSX can reach the same powerlevels as the high powerlevels the supras attain when modified but for more money?
So the NSX can compete in 1/4 mile after all if there is a lot of money put in to it.
Lets give you an example.
Buy a new NSX, at say 75 000 $
Buy a new Supra (let's say they did still sell it) at 40 000$ (Sticker price sometime in 1996.
Now put 10 000 worth of go fast parts to both (Forced induction to the NSX), and the Supra will total at 50 000$ , and the NSX at 85 000$
After the 10 000 spent, performance wise, the Supra will probably yield more bang for the buck as far as HP goes, because the first 10 000 for the NSX will be mostly to just get a FI setup in the first place. The Supra can spend the 10000 on smaller cheaper parts that will yield high gains. The NSX will be quite close and still kick the Supras ass on the track.
Add another 10 000, and the gains on both cars will be similar, because they now both have FI. Supra will still lead in HP due to it's initial lead. However the NSX will not be far behind as far as HP, but will still have all the advantages it had in stock form, weight, handeling, balance etc... Get the picture?
Fatal-NSX said:
Not sure what you are saying here??
BITeR said:
yea i got it
BITeR said:
all i was saying is the difference in stock hp between the supra and the nsx is not that much with the supra having twin turbo too.
anywayz its all good i get your point
Fatal-NSX said:
great, but you don't sound too happy!?!
5inchfatlip said:
I would agree for the most part about the RX-7 (FD3S), however you can't just slap on a midpipe (no cats), downpipe and exhaust without an upgraded ECU unless you wanna blow the motor. RX-7's are very delicate when tuning is brought into the picture. I wish it was that easy to get huge RELIABLE hp gains out of an RX-7. Too bad you have to put down large $$ worth of tuning to achieve that.
All in all, I do agree with you that rwhp is easily attainable.
Brian2by2 said:
Maybe a 5.0 is cheaper to buy but not to fix up, I sell the parts for them all day. Biggest complain, it goes fast but is $$$ to get there.
5.0 Mustang: $3500
Vortech S/C: $2200+$500 install
TrickFlow heads: $800+$300 install
Cams: $150-$300+$300 install
That right there is a monster machine for ~$7900...
I'm not 100% on prices but say it's $15,000...thats still cheaper than JUST a supra w/o mods and most RX-7s without mods!
And a 5.0 is more reliable and easier to fix than a modded RX7 and Supra
Vortech S/C: $2200+$500 install
TrickFlow heads: $800+$300 install
Cams: $150-$300+$300 install
That right there is a monster machine for ~$7900...
I'm not 100% on prices but say it's $15,000...thats still cheaper than JUST a supra w/o mods and most RX-7s without mods!
And a 5.0 is more reliable and easier to fix than a modded RX7 and Supra
Brian2by2 said:
Brian2by2 said:
Brian, they are saying Supra is a lot cheaper to fix up, which is true. In your example you included the price of the car itself, but this is totally out of scope. A simple boost controller and some exhaust mods can easily push the Supra to around 410hp at the wheels. This would cost around $720 for the parts only. In your example the parts cost around $3,300.
So you see, the Supra is cheaper to modify. There are also tuners like HKS that have participated in Road and Track's 0-100-0 tests. Their HKS Supra was extemely fast with good reliability as well. I don't think anyone was factoring the cost of the car itself, just the cost of the mods themselves when making the statement "the Supra is cheaper and easier to fix up."
I had a similar quandary, deciding between a used NSX, a Supra, and a ferrari 328 gts. Leaving the ferrari aside, there are several factors to consider. I chose the nsx:
1) Lightweight. I'm used to lightweight roadsters and the Supra for all its amazing tunability (boost cut controller, downpipe, exhaust, boost dial = 430 rwhp easily) (or for that matter, HKS 2835 or a T63 turbo at around 6-700 horses), is still a heavy car. The more modded supras, doing around 800 hp, will simply cream anything around for the money you put into them. However, what do you drive a car for? To exceed the speed limit in four seconds instead of five?
If you want stoplight performance, the Supra isn't the best choice either. There, american iron with its displacement advantage will still beat a supra , but give it a rolling start and it will destroy anything this side of a Koenig F50 twin-turbo. You'll go through tyres like you wouldn't believe though.
Supra also has the advantage of amazing reliability, and the block itself usually requires zero modifications. Try tricking out a 5.0 without touching pistons or con-rods to 800 bhp!
Back to the NSX though, it beats the supra for three reasons: 1) it's a genuine, midengined exotic. There's something truly special about driving exotics of any type. The Supra is not an exotic, nor was it designed to be one. It's a consummate sports/muscle car and definitely a worthy drive. I got to take one for a spin and its straight-line performance was breathtaking.
2) The NSX hustles around a racetrack, or around anything else for that matter. The supra has several hundred pounds more to lug, and more weight in the front. Also, there's a degree of turbo lag - especially with a big turbo like a T66...
3) The look. Supras cry out for a decent body kit, NSX's don't. The psychology of nsx owners is noticeably different as well - they're concerned about ability and not numbers. That pretty much says it all.
Hope that helps....
1) Lightweight. I'm used to lightweight roadsters and the Supra for all its amazing tunability (boost cut controller, downpipe, exhaust, boost dial = 430 rwhp easily) (or for that matter, HKS 2835 or a T63 turbo at around 6-700 horses), is still a heavy car. The more modded supras, doing around 800 hp, will simply cream anything around for the money you put into them. However, what do you drive a car for? To exceed the speed limit in four seconds instead of five?
If you want stoplight performance, the Supra isn't the best choice either. There, american iron with its displacement advantage will still beat a supra , but give it a rolling start and it will destroy anything this side of a Koenig F50 twin-turbo. You'll go through tyres like you wouldn't believe though.
Supra also has the advantage of amazing reliability, and the block itself usually requires zero modifications. Try tricking out a 5.0 without touching pistons or con-rods to 800 bhp!
Back to the NSX though, it beats the supra for three reasons: 1) it's a genuine, midengined exotic. There's something truly special about driving exotics of any type. The Supra is not an exotic, nor was it designed to be one. It's a consummate sports/muscle car and definitely a worthy drive. I got to take one for a spin and its straight-line performance was breathtaking.
2) The NSX hustles around a racetrack, or around anything else for that matter. The supra has several hundred pounds more to lug, and more weight in the front. Also, there's a degree of turbo lag - especially with a big turbo like a T66...
3) The look. Supras cry out for a decent body kit, NSX's don't. The psychology of nsx owners is noticeably different as well - they're concerned about ability and not numbers. That pretty much says it all.
Hope that helps....
Brian2by2 said:
Let me clarify my postion. I am speaking strictly in terms of all OEM parts and thier prices.
Brian, you could very well be correct on your list if you are talking aftermarket components.
Sorry if I mislead you.
Antoher piece of data for what its worth:
We went up against a TT Supra capable of dialing 700 RWHP with our normally aspirated NSX in this year's OTC (seven track in seven days).
We won, they were last (total and every day but one).
But I'd hate to drag race them
We went up against a TT Supra capable of dialing 700 RWHP with our normally aspirated NSX in this year's OTC (seven track in seven days).
We won, they were last (total and every day but one).
But I'd hate to drag race them
supercharged said:Antoher piece of data for what its worth:
We went up against a TT Supra capable of dialing 700 RWHP with our normally aspirated NSX in this year's OTC (seven track in seven days).
We won, they were last (total and every day but one).
But I'd hate to drag race them
Supras can be set up to run very well on a track, but they do tend to overheat. A Supra has done very well in the One Lap of America the last few years, a competition dominated by heavily modified Vipers and Vettes.
To be fair, I think a Supra needs more work than the NSX when it comes to the track just the way the NSX needs more work than the Supra when it comes to the 1/4 mi.
Lots of people will annecdotally insist that the Supra can hang with the NSX at the track given equal drivers with no problem, but I've never seen this at all. Truth is, in professional tests, stock for stock, the NSX has proven to be the better track car. In the real world, not that many Supra drivers seem to actually track the car and most seem to stick to the dyno, the 1/4 or (unfortunately) the street.
I'll give it to the Supra for being a highway/quarter mile monster all day long and I'll acknowledge it for being a capable track car, but it would take a lot of work to achieve the balance and track manners of the NSX for a stock Supra.
The Supra is a fantastic car, but I find that in these kind of debates the only answer that the Supra fans really want to hear is that the NSX is an overpriced POS that only has exclusivity (and that's only due to it's high price), while the Supra is the finest sports car value ever produced that excels in any category and is only, barely, matched by the SRT-10. It's odd that friends I have *in Japan* don't share this sentiment and are mystified why the Skyline GTR and Supra have achieved SO much notoriety in the US when they arent considered all THAT interesting in their native country where they're (still) available.
On the topic of the original question, I think the fact that the Supra has an I6 is a big piece of the puzzle. The I6 is more suited to FI than a V6. The high compression V6 in the NSX is really a NA platform and FI, while possible, is harder. Also, the Supra engine was "built" from the factory and has a very strong top and bottom end and big injectors.
Lots of people will annecdotally insist that the Supra can hang with the NSX at the track given equal drivers with no problem, but I've never seen this at all. Truth is, in professional tests, stock for stock, the NSX has proven to be the better track car. In the real world, not that many Supra drivers seem to actually track the car and most seem to stick to the dyno, the 1/4 or (unfortunately) the street.
I'll give it to the Supra for being a highway/quarter mile monster all day long and I'll acknowledge it for being a capable track car, but it would take a lot of work to achieve the balance and track manners of the NSX for a stock Supra.
The Supra is a fantastic car, but I find that in these kind of debates the only answer that the Supra fans really want to hear is that the NSX is an overpriced POS that only has exclusivity (and that's only due to it's high price), while the Supra is the finest sports car value ever produced that excels in any category and is only, barely, matched by the SRT-10. It's odd that friends I have *in Japan* don't share this sentiment and are mystified why the Skyline GTR and Supra have achieved SO much notoriety in the US when they arent considered all THAT interesting in their native country where they're (still) available.
On the topic of the original question, I think the fact that the Supra has an I6 is a big piece of the puzzle. The I6 is more suited to FI than a V6. The high compression V6 in the NSX is really a NA platform and FI, while possible, is harder. Also, the Supra engine was "built" from the factory and has a very strong top and bottom end and big injectors.
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