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The Creator of the NSX
- Thread starter drmanny3
- Start date
Ben said:
Hey Ben, don't you have a special autographed picture for me
I'm getting jelous now. I want my special one of a kind picture Hehehehehe.
cmarsh90 said:
Once again, Honda doesn't really care much about sale figures when it comes to the NSX. They'd have cut the NSX waaaaaaaaaaay before 2003 if that's the case.
http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/z/98z/index.html
it may be possible they stopped making this model, but it was introduced in 1998 and was still available last year.
4wd midengine turbo.
this Life Dunk model which is sold right now is intercooler turbo too.
so is this That's model.
and i thought element was an ugly car..
CRX B16B VTEC said:
http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/z/98z/index.html
it may be possible they stopped making this model, but it was introduced in 1998 and was still available last year.
4wd midengine turbo.
...looking through their site, the MDX model
has 3.5 litre VTEC engine... but is J series with iVTEC, producing aorund 260 hp, new NSX engine could be based on this ...
has 3.5 litre VTEC engine... but is J series with iVTEC, producing aorund 260 hp, new NSX engine could be based on this ...
AndyH said:
Becuase it IS a Modena. Honestly, I think that a 120k NSX, even with 600ps, would not sell well. IMO, not better than the current did from 1991 to now... the question is: is this enough for Honda to justify building it?
- Joined
- 4 October 2002
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- 569
I was further thinking about the Honda R/D visit and I wonder if they are gathering info for the next NSX or another new sports car in a higher league. It's hard to think that after 13 years, Honda is starting to get design inputs for a Gen 2 NSX. If this is so, we won't see Gen 2 for another 3-5 years. 15+ years without a major redesign must be a record.
I suspect Gen 2 designs are finalized and the R&D team is doing some preliminary legwork for another sports car.
Or it could be just wishful thinking on my part.
I suspect Gen 2 designs are finalized and the R&D team is doing some preliminary legwork for another sports car.
Or it could be just wishful thinking on my part.
To a degree your correct, clearly Honda is losing money on the sale of NSXs on a per unit basis, however the car does have some value to the brand as a flagship vehicle and as something to produce floor traffic. With that said you can bet that if they design a new NSX they will want it to have sales that at least recoup the costs of the project if not make them money. They aren't going to go spend tens of millions of dollars to develop a car that they expect to sell 500 a year of in the US and be happy.
Wow! This is encouraging, I'd pretty much written off the whole 2nd generation NSX thing. If you're not just teasing us, it sounds like it might actually happen! But I must say I'm torn between the idea of an expensive, but possibly affordable car
updated to compete in the same market niche or a hyper-exotc based on Honda's F1 (or IRL) platform (ala Ferrari Enzo). I think it would be cool to see Honda produce a supercar that would spank the Enzo! (or at least comparable and much better looking)
updated to compete in the same market niche or a hyper-exotc based on Honda's F1 (or IRL) platform (ala Ferrari Enzo). I think it would be cool to see Honda produce a supercar that would spank the Enzo! (or at least comparable and much better looking)
I think that $120K is expensive for New version NSX but if the car was a straight out race car (even a honda special edition) or like the castrol NSX with handling characteristics similar to a Formula one car, I think it would sell
Silver F16 said:
this is very creative thinking! it would be nice if this were true!!
i believe it is indeed correct. they are going to create a new model or car (not named NSX of course) to compete in the current highest levels of sports cars.
I spoke with a Honda engineer in Canada's HQ and he kept insisting to me that i was dreaming if i was hoping for a new (2G) NSX to come out. they/Honda are pretty much done with the NSX.
it's perfect for everything they originally planned for it. what you see is what you get!
However, imagine the SPLASH Honda would make if they introduced AN ALL NEW FOR 2005/2006 HONDA/ACURA SUPERCAR!!!
I also believe that they must get a product out within the next couple to few years to compete with the new current gen of exotics out there. if they wait too long and use those as a basis for their car, the next gen / improved versions of those cars may have already come out and they will be back at square one!
C'MON SRX!!! (super race exotic!)
Does anyone know what the F40 and F50's frame/chassis is made of? I thought it was a lot of Carbon Fiber. How realistic would it be for Honda to use a lot of CF in a production car? CF rear wing, CF instrument panels etc.
I'm guessing the McLaren F1 and Pagani Zonda make use of tons of CF. Could they mass produce CF components?
I'm guessing the McLaren F1 and Pagani Zonda make use of tons of CF. Could they mass produce CF components?
I personally would like to see the new car selling for 80-100 thousands. Also if they increase the price the people who can afford it would more likely go for the ferrari because lets say it all together now "Its a Ferrari".
If they can decrease the curb weight to about 2800lbs and get the car up to 380-400hp, no more than that, I think that they will have a car that they can be very proud of. Any more horsepower might destroy the handling and agility that the new car might have. Any more weight will do the same too, Do you think that they can achieve this power and weight with a similar engine and body frame.
If they can decrease the curb weight to about 2800lbs and get the car up to 380-400hp, no more than that, I think that they will have a car that they can be very proud of. Any more horsepower might destroy the handling and agility that the new car might have. Any more weight will do the same too, Do you think that they can achieve this power and weight with a similar engine and body frame.
I'm confident that Honda has the engineers that can achieve it. They should do some homework on the McLaren F1 and see where they can cut corners on the cost.
Midnight_Raven said:
- Joined
- 26 May 2003
- Messages
- 201
It is quite interesting how Lotus Espirt was in this situation last year as the last of the 2003 Espirts left the production line for good. The engineers at Lotus/Proton have been testing the market regarding what type of Esprit to bring out in 2006. They've decided to not call it the same thing as it will be quite different. The other big question is on the engine (6cyl supercharged/V8 Supercharged or V10). If they decide to go with the 6cyl it will be in the $60K-$80K range while the V8 will go from $80K-$120K and V10 from $120K-$140K.
I mention the Esprit because it seems to have the same story as the NSX. An outside design that has not changed much in years (since 1976 for Esprit) and going against Ferrari, Porsche, etc.. but always falling somewhat short of power.
I would love to see the next NSX with a bi-turbo 6cyl and aluminum body. Creature comforts stay the same and of course reliability being the huge focus as it seems to beat everyone in that department. Reliability is a big reason I purchased a 2003 NSX. I'm that consumer who would buy again in a heartbeat as long as it doesn't creep over $100K.
EG
I mention the Esprit because it seems to have the same story as the NSX. An outside design that has not changed much in years (since 1976 for Esprit) and going against Ferrari, Porsche, etc.. but always falling somewhat short of power.
I would love to see the next NSX with a bi-turbo 6cyl and aluminum body. Creature comforts stay the same and of course reliability being the huge focus as it seems to beat everyone in that department. Reliability is a big reason I purchased a 2003 NSX. I'm that consumer who would buy again in a heartbeat as long as it doesn't creep over $100K.
EG
I'd sincerely hope Honda keep the NSX naturally aspirated. It would seem very Un-Honda to have their flagship as a turbo when all previous performance Honda's have pretty much been high-RPM NA machines....
Gimme my 180degree crank 4.0L iVTEC V8 please
Gimme my 180degree crank 4.0L iVTEC V8 please
kenjiMR said:
There is a long way of cutting corners before the price can drop to 8%-10% of the car you are trying to use an example!
I think that a car, similar in weight to the current one, V6, with 60ps more, same price would do very well. Everything above 120k$ would do very bad.
Honda should yes play in the big league (and 3000lbs/350ps IS big league) but not commit suicide against competing against cars that are a lot more advantaged (they only produce that kind of cars, they got prestige from that, they got name and recognition that "justify" putting 150k+$ on them...).
>>Could they mass produce CF components?
No, these must be laid up one at a time by hand. It's intrinsic to the material.
>>They should do some homework on the McLaren F1 and see where they can cut corners on the cost.
This is a non-sensical comment.
1. How about YOU do some homework on the F1. McLaren spent 300 million dollars developing it and hoped to sell 600 cars at a million bucks apiece. They wound up selling 160 cars. Can you spell multi-million dollar business loss?
2. Cut the cost? They would have to cut the cost by 90% to reach the NSX's price range. What do you suggest they leave out - the engine?
No, these must be laid up one at a time by hand. It's intrinsic to the material.
>>They should do some homework on the McLaren F1 and see where they can cut corners on the cost.
This is a non-sensical comment.
1. How about YOU do some homework on the F1. McLaren spent 300 million dollars developing it and hoped to sell 600 cars at a million bucks apiece. They wound up selling 160 cars. Can you spell multi-million dollar business loss?
2. Cut the cost? They would have to cut the cost by 90% to reach the NSX's price range. What do you suggest they leave out - the engine?
kenjiMR said:
Well, the McLaren F1 crew was using the NSX as a base car for a their project and went "cost no object" on it and ended up with the million bucks F1 road car.
If you now want to take a McLaren F1 and do cost reduction on it, you'll just end up with the NSX again. LOL.
I'd say keep updating the current NSX. Make it evolve like the 911.
As for this talk about a CF Body. The Saleen S7 has a complete CF body. The cost according to Saleen for the body alone is 100K. (remember, it costs $395,000 for the S7).
So that rules that out.
So that rules that out.
have you seen the Porsche Carrera GT? Simply amazing. (carbon chassis)
Around 400k$ and making 1000 of them I think...
Do you have the breakdown of the costs of the parts in Mclaren? I don't think the engine is the mst expensive bit, cos its just a BMW engine right? 7 or 8 series are well cheap now...
I heard that Jaguar was making a midengined car based on NSX, they had it in their R&D a NSX with Jag engine, but the project is abandoned now.
If Honda went for V8+, does the engine have to turned the other way. (Too wide to be sideways?!) Might end up with a longer car...
Around 400k$ and making 1000 of them I think...
Do you have the breakdown of the costs of the parts in Mclaren? I don't think the engine is the mst expensive bit, cos its just a BMW engine right? 7 or 8 series are well cheap now...
I heard that Jaguar was making a midengined car based on NSX, they had it in their R&D a NSX with Jag engine, but the project is abandoned now.
If Honda went for V8+, does the engine have to turned the other way. (Too wide to be sideways?!) Might end up with a longer car...
kenjiMR said:
not likely or realizable at all.
even at a MILLION DOLLARS, the MCLAREN F1 is a relative bargain!! for the amount of gold, and especially MAN HOURS, i'm surprised they turn any profit at all!!
I was further thinking about the Honda R/D visit and I wonder if they are gathering info for the next NSX or another new sports car in a higher league. It's hard to think that after 13 years, Honda is starting to get design inputs for a Gen 2 NSX. If this is so, we won't see Gen 2 for another 3-5 years. 15+ years without a major redesign must be a record.
It's not strange that they are just starting now to discuss what people want in the next NSX. Usually 10-12 years for a exotic redesign is about right. Thats about the lifespace of a Ferrari Testarossa -> 512TR ->512M (12 years). Similar to a Diablo (11 years). The Ferrari 308 started in 1975 and upgraded the 3.0 didn't upgrade the engine to a 3.2L until 1985. The whole series lasted until 1989. Thats a 14 year span right there. I can't imagine how long the Esprit has been in production.
In all fairness, the NSX is still pretty competitive. The all aluminum chassis wasn't available until the introduction of the Ferrari 360 in 2000. Also the titanium connecting rods weren't introduced into the Ferrari until 1995 with the Ferrari 512M. Something the NSX had back in 1990. It offers features in its car that isn't offered by any other brand in its price range.
It's not strange that they are just starting now to discuss what people want in the next NSX. Usually 10-12 years for a exotic redesign is about right. Thats about the lifespace of a Ferrari Testarossa -> 512TR ->512M (12 years). Similar to a Diablo (11 years). The Ferrari 308 started in 1975 and upgraded the 3.0 didn't upgrade the engine to a 3.2L until 1985. The whole series lasted until 1989. Thats a 14 year span right there. I can't imagine how long the Esprit has been in production.
In all fairness, the NSX is still pretty competitive. The all aluminum chassis wasn't available until the introduction of the Ferrari 360 in 2000. Also the titanium connecting rods weren't introduced into the Ferrari until 1995 with the Ferrari 512M. Something the NSX had back in 1990. It offers features in its car that isn't offered by any other brand in its price range.
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