Time to mod. NSX or M3?

[adhesivo]

I love my cars but I need to upgrade them a bit. And for now I should only focus on one of them. The NSX is a 92 30K miles unit, and the M3 is a 2006 ZCP smg with 80K miles.

I'm putting together a quote on how much any of these projects would end up costing. I want to get any of these two cars canyon and track ready. I don't care much about the looks and or daily use, so no need to spend money on that.

Obviously costs are a big decision here but also the goal is building a car I can really enjoy. So this is what so far I think would be worth investing after a few months of ownership and a couple track days.

I'm not counting "free mods" such as weight reduction (deleting radio, sound deadening, etc...). Both cars have brand new brakes and I'm happy with the wheels, so I don't think I need to touch those.
I'm pretty sure some people might have different opinions so that's why I'd like to hear any thoughts and/or corrections.

 

[docjohn]

my first thought was you are concerned with the $ involved, therefore you are someone who is money limited to an extent, or else you wouldn't care what we think ...with that assumption ,your nsx if in good shape is a low mileage example and is an appreciating asset ..have you looked at the recent threads about what early cars with low miles are fetching...I would leave it alone and mod the bmw

 

[The King]

So are you going to track these cars? I wouldn't mod either one. You won't recoup the money on the Nsx and you better save your money for eventual repairs coming your way on an old higher mile Bimmer. Either way you are pissing money down the drain with little payback. Oh, what the hell, do them both.

 

[JD Cross]

The NSX is not a fast car by today's standards and other than the suspension, none of the changes will improve performance significantly.

Are you currently able to drive your NSX to the limit of its factory suspension now?
If you are, then upgrading the suspension would be an improvement.
If not then is it worth the $ if you can't use all of what the factory made?

The short gears should improve acceleration at certain points in the gear/rpm mix but won't make the NSX a world beater and is expensive.

All the other changes look to be cosmetic and reversible which is good.

For the $20K you're looking at spending, I think you know that a minimum of $10K is lost immediately, and you won't materially change the performance.
I'd leave it alone.

 

[Patricio]

mod the NSX!
keep in mind the NSX is an appreciating car and over time allot of what you put into it will eventually come back to you in the long run. (10 years)
if you mod the M3 it's a lose-lose situation the car ill not appreciate instead it will depreciate, and thus with the BMW you will never-ever get any money back in a any way, shape, or form, its a black hole to dump money in. not to mention as BMW's ages it falls apart, all my daily drivers for many years have been BMW's, 5-6 M3's and multiple X5's they all age like crap. I still have a x5 and 128

as far as an NSX not being fast, what? there are plenty of guys on this forum kicking ass with a properly setup NSX can be built still murder anything you want for allot less than whatever it kills, with allot less maintenance and all while appreciating in the long run... how fast do you want to go? The NSX is still the best bang for the buck toy car in the LONG run, and all while looking better, timeless & rare exotic, no M3 comes close, and I'm an M3 fanatic. The NSX requires virtually no maintenance compared to other fast cars.


is say an Angus turbo $8-10k
$2000 suspension
RPF1 wheels and real good tires $2000
do an NA2 front and rear brake upgrade $1500
do a 300-400lbs weight reduction

2700lbs and 400whp /475hp crank is around 5.6PW your flying past 3700lbs M3's wit 8.9PW its a heavy fat pig (not even in the same league as a turbo NSX) The NSX will clobber allot of exotics all day and will run 11's at the drag strip in a car that can also hold 1.1G in turns... you still need to spend north of 100k to get that in any other car that will also depreciate as much in one year as your contemplating to spend on mods right now.

and if you really want to reduce maintenance to virtually zero.. just do the J35 swap

 

[adhesivo]

Guys, it's not about building a race car to win races with it. I don't need any more power than what an exhaust manifold would give me. I just want to drive a car that does not feel like a boat (ie: improve suspension, seats that can hold me, steering I can grab, gear ratios that don't make me fall asleep when going from 2nd to 3rd, and lose a bit of weight). That's it.

It's true NSXs are going up in value. I feel that any of these changes, with the exception of the tar removal are easy to revert. I have no plans to sell the car though.
M3 e46 reached top bottom prices too and are not getting any lower, specially for good units. But it's true that I'd be spending the same $ on the mods than what the car is worth at the moment. And if I really think about it, spending $20K in an NSX is also a bit crazy. But I just can't deal with the lack of handling of the semi OEM suspension set up.

If I want to go fast I have the mono, so again, I want a car I can enjoy, not necessarily the fastest car ever.

 

[docjohn]

lol I didn't read your sig before....just take the gt3 to the canyons cased closed.

 

[adhesivo]

lol I didn't read your sig before....just take the gt3 to the canyons cased closed.

Nah the GT3 is gone. But that's a good example of a car that you can enjoy right as it comes from the factory. No body roll, good seats, perfect gearbox. I guess the NSX TypeR should feel pretty close to it, and that'd be my goal with the NSX.

 

[B2FiNiTY]

I would rather mod the m3, much more potential for soeed and in some ways, cheaper. The NSX is appreciating, especially nice clean stock ones.

 

[Patricio]

That mono is awesome!

In light of your response, I'd go the NSX-R route, you will not be disappointed.
I've too have driven/owned many cars and could buy just about whatever other car I want, but the feel and drive of a lightweight NSX-R type of build is amazing, you can get the NSX to perform like a GT3 or 360 challenge, with the driving position/feel and exotic nature of an analog exotic (Ferarri 355) but with the reliability of a civic. That's what I have now (ok little bit passed that) but can tell you an NSX-R is unparalleled in overall experience. and even if resale was $0... then resale could kiss my ass. I'd do it all over again. (but the appreciation is bonus)

 

[JD Cross]

Patricio is right about the NSX being a superb base for serious modification and can be made into a very fast car, competitive with most of what's on the road today.
His method of reducing weight and increasing power to give you a competitive power/weight ratio is the right path.

Your list of mods has a fair amount of cosmetic spending.
If you want to go fast, follow Patricio's example of spending to reduce weight and add power, rather than on cosmetics.

 

[ozone]

Good question...reminds me of a thread I started almost a decade ago (with some old school characters chiming in) debating whether to FI an M3 or a yet-to-be-purchased NSX.


http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/84871-Purely-theoretical

At the time, my main concern was making one of the cars faster so the goals were a little bit different. I ultimately decided to mod the NSX -- I have done light mods to the M3 but nothing close to what I have done with the NSX.

The NSX is a perfect platform for modifications -- performance and cosmetic. BMWs are less reliable than Hondas, plain and simple so the more you do to them, the more things that can go bad. Not saying don't modify your BMW, but it could end up coming at a higher cost. At the time I started modifying the NSX, prices were less and it wasn't an appreciating asset. We all had an inkling it could become a collectible. However, I don't think I would have changed a thing if I could go back in a time machine. I prefer my modified NSX to a stock one and ultimately if I was forced to sell, I could reverse it albeit with a giant effort. But I didn't buy my NSX with plans to sell it and plenty of people have inquired to buy it as is.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Patricio]

[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION]

Thanks Jim

 

[docjohn]

hell you have mono....big spleen and all:wink:.........just do the headers /exhaust...and a nice proven suspension upgrade like KW and stiffer front bar....your susp bushings are probably worn.Jeff of carbon 6 and titanium Dave have some nice pieces to get the slop out of the system.

 

[adhesivo]

Patricio is right about the NSX being a superb base for serious modification and can be made into a very fast car, competitive with most of what's on the road today.
His method of reducing weight and increasing power to give you a competitive power/weight ratio is the right path.

Your list of mods has a fair amount of cosmetic spending.
If you want to go fast, follow Patricio's example of spending to reduce weight and add power, rather than on cosmetics.

Thanks!
About the nsx list, you mentioned that there's a fair amount of cosmetic changes, which ones are you referring to?

 

[JD Cross]

Seats, spoiler, engine cover, steering wheel.
I think it's about $4500 that would be mostly for appearance rather than performance.

My reading on exhausts has shown mixed results from an exhaust. It would add noise and some lightness but not sure any real power gains are there.
You have a 92 coupe which is pretty rigid so I'm not sure the tower brace would make a significant improvement
Others with more data could clarify the benefit of these two mods.

The gear ratio change is nicely covered here showing the gains and losses of the ratio changes.
http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Gears
For the cost of the gears you might consider taking that money, plus some cosmetic money and going for a six speed which would be a nice performance gain.

If your driving skill level is beyond the stock suspension then a new suspension would be a performance gain, otherwise that money could be spent elsewhere.

As Patricio has pointed out in other threads the base NSX is a solid platform to start with.
Its biggest asset is the handling designed into the chassis and it's base light weight.

Tires with a low UTQG would likely make a big difference in the canyons and a good place to start.
From there adding lightness is not expensive and offers the next biggest performance gain for the money.
Following that perhaps some additional power would be next.
I would think a lighter suspension and brakes would be a good step if you are outdriving the stock set-up.

The steering wheel, spoiler, engine cover etc. would make your car look faster but not sure they would add any significant performance.

 

[adhesivo]

Thanks for the comments.
He steering is needed to get a good grip, oem is nice leather but heavy with the airbag and too close to the dashboard. Anyway a steering is a cheap improvement.
Same thing for the seats, not doing it for the looks, but because I dont like sliding aroud on each turn. And hey sit you too high and are heavy.
Engine cover, same thing too. Oem is heavy as hell. I had it removed it for a few months already.
Rear nsxr spoiler I agree is the only aesthetic item that is probably not needed and he one I was hesitant to even put in the list.

 

[davidf]

BMW's SMG proved not to be BMW's best decision. Now maybe if it were a 6 speed, but thats alot of money to spend on an SMG equipped M-car.

 

[nis350]

I have both cars and personally think that the M3 is a faster car in stock form and also easier to drive fast. The SMG would be fun on the track as it can shift quite fast in the s5 mode. However, the engine mods you listed for the M3 will not yield much power gains. So my vote goes to the M3.

Thanks for the comments.
He steering is needed to get a good grip, oem is nice leather but heavy with the airbag and too close to the dashboard. Anyway a steering is a cheap improvement.
Same thing for the seats, not doing it for the looks, but because I dont like sliding aroud on each turn. And hey sit you too high and are heavy.
Engine cover, same thing too. Oem is heavy as hell. I had it removed it for a few months already.
Rear nsxr spoiler I agree is the only aesthetic item that is probably not needed and he one I was hesitant to even put in the list.