This is amazing. Thank you for this, I'm forever in your debt.
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
Track Car Chassis/Platform Lust and Questions (Large pictures, no 56k)
- Thread starter golgo13
- Start date
Hi!
Last year I sold my Evo IX SE to buy the NSX. The Evo had Ohlins, tune, Exhaust, etc etc etc ~380hp. What a beast it was in the daily driving! And so much fun to drive on a wet track. On the dry it was immensely fast and easy to drive but a bit boring... Because I race a spec miata, when I do a trackday I preferably want to have fun and not necessarily beat records.
When I jumped in the NSX world I was amazed by how many aftermarket performance parts are available for a 23 years old car! Your wallet should fear!
I tracked the NSX stock and I didn't really like it, overall it was too soft. Great for touring around a valley with your lover but not so great on track.
The journey began
Chassis;
Type R Sway Bar and Zanardi edition rear sway bar
Koni + Eibach set up although the Eibach are too soft, swapping to H&R next week.
Steering bushings
Good track alignment
Brakes:
I am a supporter of the stock system unless you have a 500hp thing. NA brakes are just fine, they overheat a bit towards the end of the session and I plan to remove the shield at the next rotor change to cool things down
I changed rotors with the cheapest Centric brand, $40 each.
HP+ pads/ Carbotech XP8
DOT4 fluid
SS Lines
Engine:
Do the HEADERS!! It helps to shorten the gears I have DC sport, best mod on the car ever.
Exhaust because...because NSX! That sound...I have a taitec
Side scoop thing. Does it work? No idea
Oil Pan: baffles installed after the first track.
Reliability:
I did the snap ring fix deal (my NSX was in range) and at that time I replaced the clutch. I tend to use as many OEM parts if possible.
Harmonic balancer Pulley thing changed - peace of mind (went OEM)
Coolant hoses need change, if yours are stock they will blow up at the first trackday BTDT (went OEM)
Next up will be the non-compliance clamps that everyone talks so good about them.
Tires and wheels - up to you, I am still rocking the 15/16! Can't beat trackday set of tires for $400!!!
I just came back from a trackday last night and the NSX FINALLY drives the way I like. Responsive, everything feels tight, sharp in turn in, 4 wheels sliding on exit, powerful to keep up with Beetle 997 S. I only need to fix those springs putting harder ones and then - I believe - I reached my nirvana.
I hope this helps! Good luck!
Last year I sold my Evo IX SE to buy the NSX. The Evo had Ohlins, tune, Exhaust, etc etc etc ~380hp. What a beast it was in the daily driving! And so much fun to drive on a wet track. On the dry it was immensely fast and easy to drive but a bit boring... Because I race a spec miata, when I do a trackday I preferably want to have fun and not necessarily beat records.
When I jumped in the NSX world I was amazed by how many aftermarket performance parts are available for a 23 years old car! Your wallet should fear!
I tracked the NSX stock and I didn't really like it, overall it was too soft. Great for touring around a valley with your lover but not so great on track.
The journey began
Chassis;
Type R Sway Bar and Zanardi edition rear sway bar
Koni + Eibach set up although the Eibach are too soft, swapping to H&R next week.
Steering bushings
Good track alignment
Brakes:
I am a supporter of the stock system unless you have a 500hp thing. NA brakes are just fine, they overheat a bit towards the end of the session and I plan to remove the shield at the next rotor change to cool things down
I changed rotors with the cheapest Centric brand, $40 each.
HP+ pads/ Carbotech XP8
DOT4 fluid
SS Lines
Engine:
Do the HEADERS!! It helps to shorten the gears
I have DC sport, best mod on the car ever.Exhaust because...because NSX! That sound...I have a taitec
Side scoop thing. Does it work? No idea
Oil Pan: baffles installed after the first track.
Reliability:
I did the snap ring fix deal (my NSX was in range) and at that time I replaced the clutch. I tend to use as many OEM parts if possible.
Harmonic balancer Pulley thing changed - peace of mind (went OEM)
Coolant hoses need change, if yours are stock they will blow up at the first trackday BTDT (went OEM)
Next up will be the non-compliance clamps that everyone talks so good about them.
Tires and wheels - up to you, I am still rocking the 15/16! Can't beat trackday set of tires for $400!!!
I just came back from a trackday last night and the NSX FINALLY drives the way I like. Responsive, everything feels tight, sharp in turn in, 4 wheels sliding on exit, powerful to keep up with Beetle 997 S. I only need to fix those springs putting harder ones and then - I believe - I reached my nirvana.
I hope this helps! Good luck!
Last edited:
- Joined
- 19 January 2011
- Messages
- 715
I think ive posted this a zillion times- and everyone is likely sick of reading it- but I feel the need to chime in again here and piggy back on other peoples posts.
Remember your ITR? The NSX is basically the same car just more expensive and MR. I'm only half joking when I tell people that . If you are expecting a MUCH faster car than that was, its not. Speaking about the NSX overall just about half that statement is as true as the other half is false. Narrowing that down to ON TRACK performance which we'll do since you've posting in the TRACK TALK forum its pretty dead on.
What you'll get for your money over the ITR is subtleties. Subtleties that most people cant tell are there, the whole satin to silk thing. Removing the "exotic aluminum MR vs production FF" argument- a capable driver in similarly set up cars will run similar laptimes in both cars. Hell, I run just off my NSX laptimes in my race prepped CRX at 1/10th the cost. Over my years of NSX ownership and dealing with the best and worst of it I've realized that that are many, many categories of ownership- sometimes being a 'car guy' and being a 'track guy' are NOT the same thing. I decided that I wanted to own and track an NSX becasue I am a car guy. Once I started to build and track my NSX the track guy in me was doing things that made my car guy shudder (cutting bumpers, drilling chassis, driving 10/10ths). Vice versa, when I'd be on track and see a car go off and get wadded up my car-guy side would tell my track-guy side to 'cool it and turn the wick down'. Which then begged the question,"why did I just spend all that money, cut my bumpers and drill things into my chassis to get 2 tenths if i'm not going to drive it that 2 tenths harder" Conundrum indeed. It wouldn't put me in the poor house too wreck the car but I still cringe at the thought.
I digress and wouldn't expect anyone that hasn't 'been there' to fully understand; but maybe you can gleen something from it. I donno. NSX is an AMAZING car on track and the most rewarding car ive driven just be aware. If your heart is still set ill give you my stream-of-thought run down
Your approach of "doing it right the first time" is the correct approach to take. But warning: Go into it realizing that to "Do a car right" will likely be double the cost of the car itself. Now you have a 50-80k track car that you made less 'street able'. This is an extreme sliding scale based your goals; chasing all out lap times put you in another realm of $$$. See above.
If you are going to buy an NSX to track buy one with some patina and character but with its services done. I'd take a 150k example with service done for $26k over a 40,000 mile car with no service for $35k . i bought a cream puff and promptly made it not a cream puff.
-If you are doing HPDE days stock calipers/rotors, no backing plates added air scoop, with good fluid, lines and pads are fine. I removed the ABS and have run this set up for 15 min sessions at around 200+ trackdays. If I am doing a higher speed track I make sure to have new rotors and cut my session time down. i've had BBK for years just never felt the need to put it on. You milage may very.
-You do not need FI to go fast. IMO start off NA drive it for a while like that and see why you really think you need more power. Simplicity and reliability is the key for seat time and seat time is what makes you fast. Id rather be a better driver than have a fast car.
-The NSX is getting more expensive run hard. Thats a fact- be prepaired to pay a premium for the same parts. Also if you have even a minor off you can potentially TOTAL the aluminium chassis or be in 5k per corner for new A arms.
-Snap ring range is a good to know but wont mean yours wont fail. Mine was out of range and broke all the same.
-If you were doing a lot of track days id invest on a billet oil pump gear. I broke mine at the track. not fun.
-If you are on R comps get a baffled pan. Socal tracks seem too all have a sections of sustained G's where oil starvation is very likely. its cheap insurance.
-get the ATI pully or replace the OEM pulley every few years and run a shield as mentioned before.
-Socal summer track days almost require a better radiator its a good idea to do the main water hoses too, OEM is fine but at least check them and the coolant overflow bottle. If it cracks or a hose fails its bad.
-Get water temp and oil temp gauges oil temps on these car are crazy after 8-10 laps in the red. It seriously a good idea to know when too stop.
- id recommend solid rear beam bushings, it was probably one of the biggest changes on track.
-Are you tall? you'll likely need a seat and proper 5 point harness and harness bar to fit in the car with a helmet on. Get a Hans device and remove the air bag if you do.
Not a here nor there thing but realize that an NSX has a HUGE target on it at the track. Especially at arrive and drive HPDE. Sad truth, everyone wants a GoPro video on youtube called "So and SO blah de blah smokes NSX at racetrack" even though you were on a cool down lap and not in competition or race, it'll happen. Its a small thing but some people have a hard time learning when feeling like they are always pressured to go fast.
To qualify my advice (and since you are a local trackguy that will know what im talking about) I run in the 1:56's at ButtonWillow CW13 and 1:22's at Streets of willow in my stock powered NSX. Hope too see you out there soon in an NSX or otherwise!
Remember your ITR? The NSX is basically the same car just more expensive and MR. I'm only half joking when I tell people that . If you are expecting a MUCH faster car than that was, its not. Speaking about the NSX overall just about half that statement is as true as the other half is false. Narrowing that down to ON TRACK performance which we'll do since you've posting in the TRACK TALK forum its pretty dead on.
What you'll get for your money over the ITR is subtleties. Subtleties that most people cant tell are there, the whole satin to silk thing. Removing the "exotic aluminum MR vs production FF" argument- a capable driver in similarly set up cars will run similar laptimes in both cars. Hell, I run just off my NSX laptimes in my race prepped CRX at 1/10th the cost. Over my years of NSX ownership and dealing with the best and worst of it I've realized that that are many, many categories of ownership- sometimes being a 'car guy' and being a 'track guy' are NOT the same thing. I decided that I wanted to own and track an NSX becasue I am a car guy. Once I started to build and track my NSX the track guy in me was doing things that made my car guy shudder (cutting bumpers, drilling chassis, driving 10/10ths). Vice versa, when I'd be on track and see a car go off and get wadded up my car-guy side would tell my track-guy side to 'cool it and turn the wick down'. Which then begged the question,"why did I just spend all that money, cut my bumpers and drill things into my chassis to get 2 tenths if i'm not going to drive it that 2 tenths harder" Conundrum indeed. It wouldn't put me in the poor house too wreck the car but I still cringe at the thought.
I digress and wouldn't expect anyone that hasn't 'been there' to fully understand; but maybe you can gleen something from it. I donno. NSX is an AMAZING car on track and the most rewarding car ive driven just be aware. If your heart is still set ill give you my stream-of-thought run down
Your approach of "doing it right the first time" is the correct approach to take. But warning: Go into it realizing that to "Do a car right" will likely be double the cost of the car itself. Now you have a 50-80k track car that you made less 'street able'. This is an extreme sliding scale based your goals; chasing all out lap times put you in another realm of $$$. See above.
If you are going to buy an NSX to track buy one with some patina and character but with its services done. I'd take a 150k example with service done for $26k over a 40,000 mile car with no service for $35k . i bought a cream puff and promptly made it not a cream puff.
-If you are doing HPDE days stock calipers/rotors, no backing plates added air scoop, with good fluid, lines and pads are fine. I removed the ABS and have run this set up for 15 min sessions at around 200+ trackdays. If I am doing a higher speed track I make sure to have new rotors and cut my session time down. i've had BBK for years just never felt the need to put it on. You milage may very.
-You do not need FI to go fast. IMO start off NA drive it for a while like that and see why you really think you need more power. Simplicity and reliability is the key for seat time and seat time is what makes you fast. Id rather be a better driver than have a fast car.
-The NSX is getting more expensive run hard. Thats a fact- be prepaired to pay a premium for the same parts. Also if you have even a minor off you can potentially TOTAL the aluminium chassis or be in 5k per corner for new A arms.
-Snap ring range is a good to know but wont mean yours wont fail. Mine was out of range and broke all the same.
-If you were doing a lot of track days id invest on a billet oil pump gear. I broke mine at the track. not fun.
-If you are on R comps get a baffled pan. Socal tracks seem too all have a sections of sustained G's where oil starvation is very likely. its cheap insurance.
-get the ATI pully or replace the OEM pulley every few years and run a shield as mentioned before.
-Socal summer track days almost require a better radiator its a good idea to do the main water hoses too, OEM is fine but at least check them and the coolant overflow bottle. If it cracks or a hose fails its bad.
-Get water temp and oil temp gauges oil temps on these car are crazy after 8-10 laps in the red. It seriously a good idea to know when too stop.
- id recommend solid rear beam bushings, it was probably one of the biggest changes on track.
-Are you tall? you'll likely need a seat and proper 5 point harness and harness bar to fit in the car with a helmet on. Get a Hans device and remove the air bag if you do.
Not a here nor there thing but realize that an NSX has a HUGE target on it at the track. Especially at arrive and drive HPDE. Sad truth, everyone wants a GoPro video on youtube called "So and SO blah de blah smokes NSX at racetrack" even though you were on a cool down lap and not in competition or race, it'll happen. Its a small thing but some people have a hard time learning when feeling like they are always pressured to go fast.
To qualify my advice (and since you are a local trackguy that will know what im talking about) I run in the 1:56's at ButtonWillow CW13 and 1:22's at Streets of willow in my stock powered NSX. Hope too see you out there soon in an NSX or otherwise!
Last edited:
^so true, there are a lot of cars that can keep up with it and beat it, but they're not an NSX and how you feel about it (hard to describe but owners know what I mean). all the drivers who own faster cars still like the NSX
more HP doesn't always mean faster lap-times but those faster lap-times means more cost everywhere and you will double the cost of your car and increase the chance of a big 'off'
so sort out in no following order;
brakes: fluid, pads, cooling
sticky tires
non-compliance front and rear
sway bars and some sort of suspension upgrade even if just the springs for now
baffled sump and maybe billet oil gear
coolant hoses, they do blow when old
headers and exhaust as much for weight as power
obviously service with new fluids
there will be other suggestions but those are the main ones before you go crazy on things, I have done all of the above and way more and really I am not that much faster than when I had just the above mods
Then drive it before you go all out and figure out what to do next because after you do these reasonably cheap mods it costs a lot to shave 10ths from these mods
more HP doesn't always mean faster lap-times but those faster lap-times means more cost everywhere and you will double the cost of your car and increase the chance of a big 'off'
so sort out in no following order;
brakes: fluid, pads, cooling
sticky tires
non-compliance front and rear
sway bars and some sort of suspension upgrade even if just the springs for now
baffled sump and maybe billet oil gear
coolant hoses, they do blow when old
headers and exhaust as much for weight as power
obviously service with new fluids
there will be other suggestions but those are the main ones before you go crazy on things, I have done all of the above and way more and really I am not that much faster than when I had just the above mods
Then drive it before you go all out and figure out what to do next because after you do these reasonably cheap mods it costs a lot to shave 10ths from these mods
This sounds like a well set-up evo.
I mostly want to have fun. The evo is fun and has still a lot of room for growth for my skill level. I'm just kinda bored with the platform, really. The NSX is just so damn sexy and is a Honda I wouldn't feel bad about flogging, just my wallet might... lol...Anything wrong with 17/18? Some reading around here made it seem like that was the ideal track set-up?
It does and thank you.
This actually makes me very excited for the NA1 chassis. I always felt the ITR was sort of the Japanese version of Fahrvergnügen. I could never put my finger on it, but the car had "spirit" if you will.
I understand this 100%, actually.
I know what you mean. I deal with wanting my evo to look good (it only ever sees the track) but also perform. It's a strange dynamic that makes no sense, but it makes me happy. To me, this is just a very expensive hobby. I'm 40. I have nothing to prove, no chip on my shoulder. I just want to put down some great times (bragging rights, sure) have fun and at the end of the day drive the car home. Don't worry, I have AAA. LOL
I'm still here.
Well, once I sell my evo and all the parts I'll be sitting on enough to buy a well maintained used car with ~$20k to spare. I don't want a track beast I have to tow, just something clean that's reliable that has everything working. A/C, dash, etc. That's not too much to ask, is it?
Noted.
I was considering the CTSC down the road (if needed) but I'm thinking about picking up a car that already has one to save money. Hell, I can even pull it off and retune without it if I need to.
This worries me. My annual budget for this hobby is small, like $6k small.
In fact, this might be enough to keep my ass out of an NSX seat... Wow.
I saw your post on this, actually. I read the whole transformation of your car and working in your cramped garage.
I'll add this track mod to my notes.Already on the list.
Also on the list.
This too. IIRC the OEM spal fans are the best option even over aftermarket?
Fair enough. I have 60mm EGT, oil press amd oil temp gauges sitting in boxes in the garage, actually. Maybe I'll finally have a use for them...
I did all the bushings in the evo including solid aluminum LCA bushings. Transformative.
6'2" I have a seat, six point and would just need to see about having a rollbar fabricated or putting in a harness bar. Are the Titanium Dave bars steel or titanium? lol Still not sure.
Yeah, I get this. I have guys in FR-S all day long buzzing me at the track. A friend with an FR-S sent me an "omg passing an evo" YouTube link about a month after one of my slowest warm-up laps ever at Buttonwillow. I was amused and glad it made that guy feel great about his purchase. Again, I'm there to have fun. There are no awards in HPDE.
Nice! Sub 2 is scooting. I'm hoping to hit 2 eventually.
Likewise, I'll be on the lookout for NSXs out there now that I'm lurking on Prime.
Good stuff here, thank you for this.
- Joined
- 19 January 2011
- Messages
- 715
You sound like the right kinda guy to enjoy the car then!. Over the years I've seen about 4 or 5 new owners show up in an NSX only to pull into the then next event with a GTR or Porsche. I guess they're just not a match for some people.
17x8"/18x9.5" +45 (up too 11" width rear) IS the preferred track set up with 235 front 275 rear tires.
My car has AC and everything that I haven't removed works. Not too much too ask at all.
Be aware that the 5k per corner is a low estimate. Its not including shocks or wheels brakes. Obviously cost goes up from there once you start replacing body panels cross members or fancy camber arms and after market parts.
Spal fans indeed flow well. not sure about best but well enough since you only ever need then while stopped. Ryu and COZ here on the forum have a magic radiator they developed with MASIV for FI cars, its got great on-track performance numbers. Personally, ive had the Koyo on mine no where near as good but it does the job.
Roll bar VS harness debate bar is a big reason why i built another dedicated track car. The speeds im at I really should have a full cage. Needless too say, roll bars/cages (real, functional ones) are not easy too do in an aluminium car, especially an aluminium car where space is at a premium and being driven someone 6'5". Its also a point of no return as far as DEDICATED TRACK CAR i just wasn't ready to take that leap with mine. I have the Comptech harness bar (both it and Tidaves are steel btw) be aware that the older bars like mine you need to cut into the a pillar plastic to install. When in my car with the seat literally squashing the carpet down, no cushions and a helmet on my head is about 1/2 to 1/4 away from the roof. not good.
I'm sure you'll have more questions as you search, ask away.
17x8"/18x9.5" +45 (up too 11" width rear) IS the preferred track set up with 235 front 275 rear tires.
My car has AC and everything that I haven't removed works. Not too much too ask at all.
Be aware that the 5k per corner is a low estimate. Its not including shocks or wheels brakes. Obviously cost goes up from there once you start replacing body panels cross members or fancy camber arms and after market parts.
Spal fans indeed flow well. not sure about best but well enough since you only ever need then while stopped. Ryu and COZ here on the forum have a magic radiator they developed with MASIV for FI cars, its got great on-track performance numbers. Personally, ive had the Koyo on mine no where near as good but it does the job.
Roll bar VS harness debate bar is a big reason why i built another dedicated track car. The speeds im at I really should have a full cage. Needless too say, roll bars/cages (real, functional ones) are not easy too do in an aluminium car, especially an aluminium car where space is at a premium and being driven someone 6'5". Its also a point of no return as far as DEDICATED TRACK CAR i just wasn't ready to take that leap with mine. I have the Comptech harness bar (both it and Tidaves are steel btw) be aware that the older bars like mine you need to cut into the a pillar plastic to install. When in my car with the seat literally squashing the carpet down, no cushions and a helmet on my head is about 1/2 to 1/4 away from the roof. not good.
I'm sure you'll have more questions as you search, ask away.
If the NSX isn't for me, I wouldn't step into a Porsche or GTR. I would probably go back to basics with an S2K, really.
Cost is a concern for sure. I've had a few offs in the evo, ripped of the front air dam twice but was still able to drive the car home everytime. No bent frame, no alignment changes, etc...
Everything else I'm comfortable with. I've bent wheels, lost fender liners, damaged my fancy JDM aluminum undertray... all fall within the budget.
I stayed away from a Lotus Elise because of the clam shell design. A simple off could total that car? No thanks... If the NSX is the same then I might have just answered my own question.
The car is super sexy and if it performs even remotely like an ITR matured then I know I'll love it. Maybe it's literally just too costly for my income level at this time in my life to try and run this car on track.
I'm concerned with running a fixed back racing seat in a car without a cage/rollbar. The harnesses keep you pinned to the seat that doesn't fold back out of the way in a rollover, allowing the car to crush your spine. I forgot to mention above that I already have a HANS as well. The safety equipment is a system that's meant to work together, so I want to do it right or just stick with 3 point/SRS.
Good times.
Cost is a concern for sure. I've had a few offs in the evo, ripped of the front air dam twice but was still able to drive the car home everytime. No bent frame, no alignment changes, etc...
Everything else I'm comfortable with. I've bent wheels, lost fender liners, damaged my fancy JDM aluminum undertray... all fall within the budget.
I stayed away from a Lotus Elise because of the clam shell design. A simple off could total that car? No thanks... If the NSX is the same then I might have just answered my own question.
The car is super sexy and if it performs even remotely like an ITR matured then I know I'll love it. Maybe it's literally just too costly for my income level at this time in my life to try and run this car on track.
I'm concerned with running a fixed back racing seat in a car without a cage/rollbar. The harnesses keep you pinned to the seat that doesn't fold back out of the way in a rollover, allowing the car to crush your spine. I forgot to mention above that I already have a HANS as well. The safety equipment is a system that's meant to work together, so I want to do it right or just stick with 3 point/SRS.
Good times.
Agreed, but my problem is this:
It's a disease.
The S2000 is a great platform, it just hasn't caught my eye if you will. I see many of them at the track, sometimes up to fifteen of them in HPDE. That's sort of a put-off for me, which is completely silly and has no real world relevance other than personal preference. I want to drive something that would make me happy when I see it, work on it and abuse it.
I concur. When i sold my s2000 to buy an NSX, i originally planned on lightly tracking around. Then i got the bug again and realized I couldn't afford track the nsx as often as i would like (consumables and repairs). Which led me to my second s2000. I don't regret the decision.
I still miss tracking my S2000! And it was much faster and cheaper than my current NSX !
I agree that 17/18 is the perfect setup for the NSX but I have to say that the 15/16 are performing enough to get to know the NSX on track. Then it is also kind of cool, you know, tracking like they did in the early 90s...that JDM feel?
I agree that 17/18 is the perfect setup for the NSX but I have to say that the 15/16 are performing enough to get to know the NSX on track. Then it is also kind of cool, you know, tracking like they did in the early 90s...that JDM feel?
