U.S. official: Russia's attack on Georgia is 'disproportionate'

[nsxotic911]

That's a perfectly accurate description for another large country that is fighting 'disproportionate' wars when you delete the letters r s and i from rUSsiA and exchange three letters from KGB.

The difference is that we can keep our government accountable, we are not tortured when we do speak out against it, we can elect different leaders if we wanted to (unlike the farce democracy/elections in Russia..) and the list goes on.

Don't even compare the US to what Russia's political system and actions.

Russian government is a mob killing and torturing anyone they pereceive to be in their way or speaks out against, both within Russia and outside of Russia.

 

[areout]

Hah come on its the totally same situation like NATO bombing Yugoslavia because of Kosovo. NATO also killed many civilians and nobody took the responsibility. Now that was the disproportion.

 

[fullracehonda]

Russian government is a mob killing and torturing anyone they pereceive to be in their way or speaks out against

hmmm, that sounds alot like how this one dictator once ran a country, and then was executed for crimes against humanity and the like, and the country is slowly becoming a democracy(spelling is bad today, my bad)

another problem is that russia is too needed, thier natural gas and oil, this was a perfect example of why countries need to be energey independant if they can be

 

[Yankee]

The difference is that we can keep our government accountable, we are not tortured when we do speak out against it, we can elect different leaders if we wanted to (unlike the farce democracy/elections in Russia..) and the list goes on.

Don't even compare the US to what Russia's political system and actions.

Russian government is a mob killing and torturing anyone they pereceive to be in their way or speaks out against, both within Russia and outside of Russia.

I agree. you compare todays Russia and the US. But I do apply to US after the civil war and todays Russia. we are in 'democracy' only 10 years, and yet is anyway better comparing with Russia 20 years ago. At least I may drive my NSX and freely discuss with you here on this forum :smile:

 

[Yankee]

Hah come on its the totally same situation like NATO bombing Yugoslavia because of Kosovo. NATO also killed many civilians and nobody took the responsibility. Now that was the disproportion.

And that time Eltzin was afraid to help our brothers, we were very angry for this. I was many times in Montenegro, in Herzeg Novi, Kotor, Igalo. I love your country!

 

[Klayton]

we can elect different leaders if we wanted to

 

[NSXFRIEND]

I'm honest with myself, I did not mentioned that there are no gap between poor and rich, but let's look the history: USA have got it's own Afganistan, and not only one time. Regarding Muslims and especially Shariat people - you do not know them at all, and lucky you! I would not say our internal policy doing everything right, neither external, even I did not say I'm OK with the way our government are going, as well I 'm 100% against bloody bastards that are thefting our poor country and keep stolen money in US and Europe, neither you do, I belive... But your banks - they are OK with that, isn't it? We cannot do anything except to sacrifise out lives in case you are in army and you gave the oath. Or you'd prefer another civil war? I mentioned that it is 100% better comparing year 1991, and it's better for me as well. However if you would ask me if I do have faith that Russia would have a future going same way, I would say: "No, I have not."

You need to be honest to everyone eles, and when your government is ready to enter humanity maybe then your words may prove merit.

Lets "look the history" as you so elequently put it. During the last 100 years, most the wars where fought by secularist not Muslim sharia'st, jews christians or buddhist. Communist-russia is at the forfront of crimes against humanity. I lost count how many people were slaughtered at the hands of Russian wars and invasions to eastern Europe-central asia 100 million counted for? Oh and your brothers in Serbia who engaged in enthnic cleansing against an ethnic "majority" in both Croatia and Bosnia for "5 years" they deserved Nato bombardment and not to soon, and I won't bring up Checnia or all the other countries where atrocities occured. Your citizens have no problem selling Klishnokovs and Migs, tanks to other countries and depositing in Swiss banks either.

There is no perfect country but had it not been for US and British intervention in the last 60 years more people would have died in Europe and rest of the world.

 

[Ski_Banker]

That's a perfectly accurate description for another large country that is fighting 'disproportionate' wars when you delete the letters r s and i from rUSsiA and exchange three letters from KGB.

That's cute. Former Chancellor Schroeder would be impressed. Is he still on the Board or Gazprom these days? If so, tell him to pull some strings for BP, which is about to have 1/4 of its production assets expropriated by the Russians.

Think what you want of Iraq, but at the end of the day, that invasion was on the basis of FREEING oil assets for the West, not for using them as strategic leverage like Russia with TNK-BP and the Georgian pipelines.

 

[Ski_Banker]

I agree. you compare todays Russia and the US. But I do apply to US after the civil war and todays Russia. we are in 'democracy' only 10 years, and yet is anyway better comparing with Russia 20 years ago. At least I may drive my NSX and freely discuss with you here on this forum :smile:

I'm watching your garbage Russia Today english language propaganda channel right now. Putin should re-read Sun Tzu before he backs an admittedly scared USA into a corner -- that's how the worst wars start and end. And despite a lack of manpower, we all know the USA would dominate a 20 year old Russian military in every respect.

Your pirate lawless country stole two businesses from me so, pardon me for requesting a few nukes being dropped on your blood-money overpriced capital, Moscow.

Fuck you.

 

[Yankee]

I'm watching your garbage Russia Today english language propaganda channel right now. Putin should re-read Sun Tzu before he backs an admittedly scared USA into a corner -- that's how the worst wars start and end. And despite a lack of manpower, we all know the USA would dominate a 20 year old Russian military in every respect.

Your pirate lawless country stole two businesses from me so, pardon me for requesting a few nukes being dropped on your blood-money overpriced capital, Moscow.

Fuck you.

My dear,

I did not stole anything from you, did I? Neither I did not with my Brazilian, German, Swedish, Canada, US, Japan, Russian partners. In this list are Midland, Honda Motor Co. and many other respectfull companies.

I would not argue for the Military force power US vs Russia, and do not want to make it clear in evaluating that on battlefield, maybe only in PC games :biggrin:

In case I met dishonest US citizen that will not mean that all in the US are dishonest...

The best way to say 'Fuck You' is to do it eye to eye. Nothing personal, that the good way of discussing things here.

 

[Scot]

What is different from Russia invading Georgia and the USA invading Iraq?

don't flame me too much....... I am sure there are video's / pictures of the Iraqi citizens in the same pain as the Georgian's....

 

[Yankee]

What is different from Russia invading Georgia and the USA invading Iraq?

+1 here

 

[NSXLuvr]

Your citizens have no problem selling Klishnokovs and Migs, tanks to other countries and depositing in Swiss banks either.

Umm - Pot calling the kettle black. IIRC - USA is the largest exporter of miliatary weapons, equipment, tanks, and air craft!

Its obvious what Russia is doing. They are trying to strategically get hold of the East/West Oil/Natural gas pipeline that is running through the center of Georgia. However, We(USA/NATO) can't really do much about it. Georgia isn't a member of NATO. So we can't REALLY help(send forces) them. All we can do is diplomacy. It really puts the Bush/US administration in a difficult position. They have supported Georgia towards their push for freedom but We are not in a position to help Georgia from a military or a strategic standpoint. Heck - we can't even say much to the Russians. What are we going to say - "Hey you can't overthrow a military dictator just because you feel like it". Uhhh, isn't that what we have basically done in Iraq.

 

[NSX GT]

With this outbreak in Georgia, I'm not feeling too comfortable about what's happening in the world today. We have a large percent of our military forces in the Middle East and we have potential issues in Russia, Iran,and Korea. If these three countries form an alliance against us, we could have a possible Nuclear W.W. on our hands.

 

[docjohn]

Nostradamus where are you

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Umm - Pot calling the kettle black. IIRC - USA is the largest exporter of miliatary weapons, equipment, tanks, and air craft!. Uhhh, isn't that what we have basically done in Iraq.

Point taken,

Usa is also the largest exporter of aid has also done alot of good in science technology and humanitarian aid and helped develope manly nations even Germany and Japan after the secularist WW2. Granted our foreing policy is not perfect but the overall I can't think of a better place to practice my inalienable right to live as a human being and practice what I preach.

Russia's resume is unimaginable crimes against the world last 100 years values life "very little" who would want to live in a cold misreble place where the government experiments on its own citizens like labratory rodents?

IMHO

 

[queenlives]

...where the government experiments on its own citizens like labratory rodents?

i understand the points you were making, but the u.s. govt has conducted experiments using our citizens, too. lsd and atomic testing are the first that come to mind, but i'm betting we have a long and varied history of this, as well.

 

[Ski_Banker]

It's too bad that, since the USA is no longer perfect, it cannot express its disapproval of world events. I sure hope those uncompromised, highest moral, free nations elsewhere in the world will step forward. Whoever they are.

Comparing this to Iraq (which I was strongly against at the time, but am coming around in favor of) is simple minded.

 

[fullracehonda]

What is different from Russia invading Georgia and the USA invading Iraq?

don't flame me too much....... I am sure there are video's / pictures of the Iraqi citizens in the same pain as the Georgian's....

yeah, theres plenty of history of iraqi citizens like that, being tortured, living in fear, of thier own government


usa "invading" iraq while it has taken its toll on us and coalition soldiers and money, its better than leaving taliban/al-gayda alone in iraq/afganastan/pakistan to run free and plan more ways to take the united states of america down, and let sadams reign of terror upon his own citizens take place

i grow tired of the war and casualties, but at the end of the day its nice that i can go into a public place and not have to worry about a plane flying into it, or a suicide bomber blowing him/herself up next to me, its nice not having to worry about some fool whipping a ak47 out of his jacket and fill me up with holes while yelling allah or jihad or any of that other shit, its been a while since there has been a train bombing in europe, so you euro wanna be peace loving ignorant hippies should be happy for that fact right?

 

[areout]

And that time Eltzin was afraid to help our brothers, we were very angry for this. I was many times in Montenegro, in Herzeg Novi, Kotor, Igalo. I love your country!

Nah he wasnt afraid, he just took big money, Kosovo was sold the similar way Alaska was.

There is no need for USA to get in war with Russia when they can buy everything, its just the matter of time...

 

[fullracehonda]

wow, just saw some reporters car getting riddled with bullets while they were in it, and some gal reporter took a bullet to her arm while doing a live report,


it seems like russia has a problem with stray bullets

 

[Scot]

yeah, theres plenty of history of iraqi citizens like that, being tortured, living in fear, of thier own government

I meant for the pictures of the Iraqi Citizens after being inadvertanly hit by USA launched weapons... similar to the Citizens of Georgia being hit by russian launched weapons.

Been beaten to death but obviously we had no more reason to invate Iraq than we would any other country with a dictator...there are plenty of dictator run countries that we have no plans to invade.

I just read in the paper this morning Russia punished Georgia "for its surprise attack on South Ossetia's capital" Seems like Russia had more of a reason to attack Georga than the USA did for Iraq. ?

 

[Yankee]

I meant for the pictures of the Iraqi Citizens after being inadvertanly hit by USA launched weapons... similar to the Citizens of Georgia being hit by russian launched weapons.

Been beaten to death but obviously we had no more reason to invate Iraq than we would any other country with a dictator...there are plenty of dictator run countries that we have no plans to invade.

I just read in the paper this morning Russia punished Georgia "for its surprise attack on South Ossetia's capital" Seems like Russia had more of a reason to attack Georga than the USA did for Iraq. ?

I was too shy to put the Iraq story here, but IMO US attacked Iraq according the financial control interests ONLY. Saddam was only the official reason why.

 

[AR]

First of all I am not saying the US is perfect, that is for another thread along with Rhodesia, oops I mean Zimbabwe.

But as my father used to say, all the Russian leaders did was trade in the green army suit for and Armani one.

Should we even delve into the likes of Abramovich.

What really sets the Russian government appart is the fact that they don't give a flying fvck about killing civilians.

PS I have nothing against the people of Russia or the former USSR.

Cheers,

AR

 

[WingZ]

Well no offense guys but we don't have any business telling Russia anything after Iraq and the fact that we we're going to set up missiles in Georgia (Russia backyard ) as part of our missile defense system.

If anyone started a new cold war it was us. At least Russians and Georgians have had physical contact as a cause for war and Russia didn't fabricate anything to go after Georgia.

Bush is finally and I can't believe I'm saying this doing the smart thing as this is a kids glove situation. We don't even want a small military conflict with Russia nor they us.