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Wet Or Dry System And Why....
- Thread starter Guttiensx
- Start date
- Joined
- 7 February 2001
- Messages
- 1,452
Guttiensx said:
a wet setup sprays gas with the nitrous and is generally considered safer b/c you do not have the opportunity to run lean. The only benifet to running a dry setup that I can think of is ease of installation(not having to hook up to the fuel lines and such). I always suggest running a wet setup. As far as power goes, I dont think you will see any difference.
I recall reading an N2O article a couple years back in a tuner mag.. basically (IIRC), for a smaller shot, the dry set-up was safer (assuming the nitrous is introduced through a single nozzle). Not applicable above 75-100HP. i think they stated this was cause too much nitrous (vs. fuel)can go to one cylinder and kaboom. with the dry setup and single nozzle, the fuel is sent via the stock injectors, so you don't worry as much about the extra fuel going to some other cylinder... as long as your fuel pump and injectors are working like they should... i guess if you have direct port, this doesn't matter...
Send a PM to Bad Carma. David is an expert in the field and can explain everything to you in great detail.Guttiensx said:
HTH
I ran a 75 shot through my Integra for over 8 months and when I sold the car It still had perfect compression in all cylinders. I was using a Zex dry kit and never had any problems with it.
Wet Kits:
Wet nitrous kits come in two types Single fogger and Direct port. The single fogger uses just one nozzle to inject nitrous and fuel TOGETHER in to the intake stream before the throttle body. This type of kit is good up to about 100 shot (give or take). At anything over that you will run the risk of haveing a lean cylinder. To solve this the direct port type system was introduced. Direct port injects the nitrous/fuel mixture in to the intake manifold just before the injectors for each cylinder. By having a nozzle for each cylinder fuel and nitrous can be more precisely (sp) metered, thus reducing the chances of a lean cylinder and allowing a higher shot.
Dry Kits:
Dry kits are more basic than wet kits. In a dry system ONLY NITROUS is injected in to the intake stream before the throttle body. This system has provisions to increse the fuel pressure in order to provide adequite fuel for the nitrous being injected. Additonal fuel is injected through the stock injectors. Dry kits are safe to about 75 shot.
There was a very good article in the May or June issue of Sport Compact Car. It goes in to more detail on differences between the kits. Hopefully that will help.
Wet Kits:
Wet nitrous kits come in two types Single fogger and Direct port. The single fogger uses just one nozzle to inject nitrous and fuel TOGETHER in to the intake stream before the throttle body. This type of kit is good up to about 100 shot (give or take). At anything over that you will run the risk of haveing a lean cylinder. To solve this the direct port type system was introduced. Direct port injects the nitrous/fuel mixture in to the intake manifold just before the injectors for each cylinder. By having a nozzle for each cylinder fuel and nitrous can be more precisely (sp) metered, thus reducing the chances of a lean cylinder and allowing a higher shot.
Dry Kits:
Dry kits are more basic than wet kits. In a dry system ONLY NITROUS is injected in to the intake stream before the throttle body. This system has provisions to increse the fuel pressure in order to provide adequite fuel for the nitrous being injected. Additonal fuel is injected through the stock injectors. Dry kits are safe to about 75 shot.
There was a very good article in the May or June issue of Sport Compact Car. It goes in to more detail on differences between the kits. Hopefully that will help.
So....... what if you were to run a higher then 75 shot with larger injectors(meaning more fuel). Would this be safe then? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm still learing about nitrous. 
Z
Z
NSX FoYoAss said:So....... what if you were to run a higher then 75 shot with larger injectors(meaning more fuel). Would this be safe then? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm still learing about nitrous.
Z
hmm. don't know. all i can tell you is what i already posted... i used a dry setuip on my accord because of what i read in that tuner magazine.. they actually blew a piston running a 50-wet shot on a honda CRX, and then went into the long discussionof why they were changing to a dry setup after the rebuild...
but as for larger injector... no idea..
peiserg said:
You don't really need to change out the injectors if you plan on running nitrous, but if extra fuel is needed, that would have to be supplied to the cylinders via "fuel jets" usually included in a wet or direct port nitrous system. Direct port is by far the best system available because it administers the exact same amount of nitrous and fuel to each cylinder, thus, alleviating the potential possibility of unequal distibution (a VERY common problem with the #3 cylinder on Inline 4 Honda motors). Hope that helps.
Drake
- Joined
- 3 June 2003
- Messages
- 437
bad carma
allot of people tend to talk about nitrous on this board and do not have the knowledge. i have had the chance to sit down with david(bad carma)for hours on end , doing nothing but talking about nitrous theory and whats is best, his new hundred shot kit is going on my car tomm. if u want safe realible kit pm david, i know he has been really slammed putting the kits together, he has a plethera of knowledge and i know he has done his r and d on his kit for over a year. i have seen all the books on nos at his house he has read and know he has spent endless hours on the phone to honda in japan picking their brains, any one intrested in a huge hp gain at a third of the cost of a super charger should be excited for the offical release of his kit.
allot of people tend to talk about nitrous on this board and do not have the knowledge. i have had the chance to sit down with david(bad carma)for hours on end , doing nothing but talking about nitrous theory and whats is best, his new hundred shot kit is going on my car tomm. if u want safe realible kit pm david, i know he has been really slammed putting the kits together, he has a plethera of knowledge and i know he has done his r and d on his kit for over a year. i have seen all the books on nos at his house he has read and know he has spent endless hours on the phone to honda in japan picking their brains, any one intrested in a huge hp gain at a third of the cost of a super charger should be excited for the offical release of his kit.
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Re: bad carma
I have to agree with him. I have had quite a bit of experience with the subject (probably not as much as bad carma) but if I were you, I would definitly look into bad carma's kit when he comes out with it. From sampling some of his posts, I can definitly tell he knows what he is talking about. As for my earlier post, I should have clarified my information more specifically. If you are only going to be running a 100 shot, go with a dry or wet setup, but if you are going to be a n2o junkie (200+ shot) I have always felt more comfortable with direct port because of the enhanced distribution. I should have been more clear.
slipnby said:
I have to agree with him. I have had quite a bit of experience with the subject (probably not as much as bad carma) but if I were you, I would definitly look into bad carma's kit when he comes out with it. From sampling some of his posts, I can definitly tell he knows what he is talking about. As for my earlier post, I should have clarified my information more specifically. If you are only going to be running a 100 shot, go with a dry or wet setup, but if you are going to be a n2o junkie (200+ shot) I have always felt more comfortable with direct port because of the enhanced distribution. I should have been more clear.
NSX/MR2
Suspended
peiserg said:
Blew a piston with only a 50 shot? Holy smoke! There is not much room for error with Nitrous, isn't there?
Hi All,
96-EJ6 has summed it up quite clearly, but I would just like to offer a few words on my own opinions from the way N2O is run on the other side of the atlantic and in the Australasian areas.
As long as its well installed ( fuel pressure cutoffs, W.O.T switches and line purge etc ) and safe and reliable ( thermo controlled bottle heater, buttle pressure remote sense and opener valve ) gas can beat most other forms of tuning $ for $ hands down .
This only applies for most kinds of street race, fixed dist drags or in gear times, its obviously little or no use for circuit racing or duration events but where its allowed hillclimb, 0-60 etc its a competative advantage that offers an awfull lot of fun.
The things that havn't been mentioned much which really made the difference for a lot of racers I have worked with were the progressive nitrous ECU controllers.
When used with the best setups, almost exclusively wet direct port systems these provided far superior drivability and reliability than the big hit or even the semi staged systems.
Your fuel system works variably rather than binary this way so why should your N2O system be a compromise.
When set up correctly and providing all safety conditions are met n2o bottle pressure and temp ok,
system fuel pressure ok
N2O line pressure ok.
N2O system enabled and armed
Wide Open Throttle switch OK
The following occurs
As the rpm exceeds a defined threshold the solenoids are started pulsing ( usually PWM ) at a very low mark space ratio.
This ratio of on to off time controlls the delivery of both additional fuel and the N2O gas into the intakes fully progressively so that there is no large surge but the gas is fed in at the correct ratio but in a larger and larger amount untill the solenoids are fully open.
This can be time based delivery in the cruder systems or integrated with the ECU in the more advanced competition systems that way the cars ECU can actually be mapped for the "on gas" profile with the ignition retarded at the appropriate load sites as well as the fuelling from the stock car injectors also enriched where appropriate.
The debate about wet or dry depends on the system installed, a well sorted dry system ( like Bad Carmas is infinately preferable to a poorly thought through wet system at any power level )
but at above 50bhp one should start looking to the future and question haw far is this system likely to be expanded, if not much then dry is usually the cheapest way.
One should also consider the spare capacity on the standard fuel injectors as a dry kit that intends to fool the ecu into delivering more fuel runs a risk of over driving the injector and not being able to diliver the fuel required..... not good.
Something else to consider is the location of the jetting, a lot of modern kits put the jets in the nozzles ( hell most people aren't even aware of the difference ) but the ideal place for the jets is at the solenoids, this is much better for accurate metering but will significantly improve reliability of gas delivery in hot systems.
I'll be really keen to hear how everyove got on at NSXpo with the N2O and FI discussions and am just waiting to find out if the factor-X guys decide to turbo and supercharge their 3.5L block a la lancia Delta works team.
Or Gerry Johnson combines his performance autoworks N20 kit with his big turbo and blows out FX's dynopacks !
Long Live NSX's worldwide.
Max
96-EJ6 has summed it up quite clearly, but I would just like to offer a few words on my own opinions from the way N2O is run on the other side of the atlantic and in the Australasian areas.
As long as its well installed ( fuel pressure cutoffs, W.O.T switches and line purge etc ) and safe and reliable ( thermo controlled bottle heater, buttle pressure remote sense and opener valve ) gas can beat most other forms of tuning $ for $ hands down .
This only applies for most kinds of street race, fixed dist drags or in gear times, its obviously little or no use for circuit racing or duration events but where its allowed hillclimb, 0-60 etc its a competative advantage that offers an awfull lot of fun.
The things that havn't been mentioned much which really made the difference for a lot of racers I have worked with were the progressive nitrous ECU controllers.
When used with the best setups, almost exclusively wet direct port systems these provided far superior drivability and reliability than the big hit or even the semi staged systems.
Your fuel system works variably rather than binary this way so why should your N2O system be a compromise.
When set up correctly and providing all safety conditions are met n2o bottle pressure and temp ok,
system fuel pressure ok
N2O line pressure ok.
N2O system enabled and armed
Wide Open Throttle switch OK
The following occurs
As the rpm exceeds a defined threshold the solenoids are started pulsing ( usually PWM ) at a very low mark space ratio.
This ratio of on to off time controlls the delivery of both additional fuel and the N2O gas into the intakes fully progressively so that there is no large surge but the gas is fed in at the correct ratio but in a larger and larger amount untill the solenoids are fully open.
This can be time based delivery in the cruder systems or integrated with the ECU in the more advanced competition systems that way the cars ECU can actually be mapped for the "on gas" profile with the ignition retarded at the appropriate load sites as well as the fuelling from the stock car injectors also enriched where appropriate.
The debate about wet or dry depends on the system installed, a well sorted dry system ( like Bad Carmas is infinately preferable to a poorly thought through wet system at any power level )
but at above 50bhp one should start looking to the future and question haw far is this system likely to be expanded, if not much then dry is usually the cheapest way.
One should also consider the spare capacity on the standard fuel injectors as a dry kit that intends to fool the ecu into delivering more fuel runs a risk of over driving the injector and not being able to diliver the fuel required..... not good.
Something else to consider is the location of the jetting, a lot of modern kits put the jets in the nozzles ( hell most people aren't even aware of the difference ) but the ideal place for the jets is at the solenoids, this is much better for accurate metering but will significantly improve reliability of gas delivery in hot systems.
I'll be really keen to hear how everyove got on at NSXpo with the N2O and FI discussions and am just waiting to find out if the factor-X guys decide to turbo and supercharge their 3.5L block a la lancia Delta works team.
Or Gerry Johnson combines his performance autoworks N20 kit with his big turbo and blows out FX's dynopacks !
Long Live NSX's worldwide.
Max
apapada said:
Typically a good rule of thumb is to take 40 to 50% of the the engine's stock power rating and use no more than that for your shot of juice. And as always follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter.
For a stock motor
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