Wider front tires on oem 05 rims?

[SilverStone05]

Anyone know if the fronts will rub with a 225 width? Car is an 05 with stock rims.

TIA.

 

[nsxtasy]

Anyone know if the fronts will rub with a 225 width? Car is an 05 with stock rims.

Quite likely. And besides, there's no significant advantage to greater width on street tires. The big variable in performance is the type of tire (make and model), much much MUCH more so than the width of the tire. If you're looking for better performance, concentrate on getting better, stickier tires, rather than wider tires.

For example, if you are looking for the maximum dry traction (and you don't care about rapid treadwear or so-so wet traction), then get the Falken Azenis RT-615 in the stock '02-05 sizes. The RT-615 in 215/40-17 will give you better dry traction than any 225 width street tire.

 

[spartan2-3]

Anyone know if the fronts will rub with a 225 width? Car is an 05 with stock rims.

TIA.

They will most likely rub on the inner fender during a full lock turn.

 

[SilverStone05]

Quite likely. And besides, there's no significant advantage to greater width on street tires. The big variable in performance is the type of tire (make and model), much much MUCH more so than the width of the tire. If you're looking for better performance, concentrate on getting better, stickier tires, rather than wider tires.

For example, if you are looking for the maximum dry traction (and you don't care about rapid treadwear or so-so wet traction), then get the Falken Azenis RT-615 in the stock '02-05 sizes. The RT-615 in 215/40-17 will give you better dry traction than any 225 width street tire.

Oh trust me, I'd rather stay with the stock size. However, I've replaced the rears with Michelin Pilot Sports, and unfortunately, for the front, the Pilot Sports don't come in the 215/40/17 size. Only option is the 225/45 if I want matching tires all 'round which is pretty important for me.

BTW, I'm putting spacers on as well because the front overhang kills me. Still think it will rub?

Thanks for the input.

 

[nsxtasy]

I've replaced the rears with Michelin Pilot Sports, and unfortunately, for the front, the Pilot Sports don't come in the 215/40/17 size. Only option is the 225/45 if I want matching tires all 'round which is pretty important for me.

I assume you're referring to the Pilot Sport PS2, rather than the one called simply the Pilot Sport, since the latter isn't available in 255/40-17. (I'm not trying to be picky, just making sure we're talking about the same tire - Michelin makes other tires with the Pilot Sport name, such as the Pilot Sport A/S all-season tire, etc.) More on these in a moment.

I'm putting spacers on as well because the front overhang kills me. Still think it will rub?

Probably.

I realize that matching tires (make and model) is important wherever possible. However, I also don't like the idea of having to throw out (or sell at a huge loss) a pair of perfectly good tires in order to achieve that goal. You might consider getting a similar tire for the front, in 215/40-17. As long as the performance characteristics are similar to the Pilot Sport PS2 in the rears, it would almost certainly work okay, and you wouldn't have to worry about rubbing.

Top-of-the-line summer tires available in 215/40-17 as well as 255/40-17 include the Continental ContiSportContact 2, Dunlop SP Sport Maxx, Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, and Pirelli PZero Nero, as well as the Kumho Ecsta MX and Toyo T1-R. The first four of these are pretty similar to each other and to the Pilot Sport PS2 in performance, as shown in the Car and Driver comparison test.

If I were in your situation, I would give some thought to which of these tires you might want to eventually switch over to, and then buy that one in 215/40-17 for your front tires now, for use with the Pilot Sport PS2 rears. When your rear Pilot Sport PS2's wear out - which will be sooner rather than later (this is an NSX, after all :smile: ) - you could then replace them with the same tire as your fronts, and use those tires as a matched set on an ongoing basis.

Oh, and the tire I would choose out of these is the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 (and not because both 17" sizes are on special right now at the Tire Rack, although that's nice too)...

 

[SilverStone05]

I assume you're referring to the Pilot Sport PS2, rather than the one called simply the Pilot Sport, since the latter isn't available in 255/40-17.

I'm talking about the tires simply called the Pilot Sports. (I replaced the rears with 275's instead of the 255's)

I realize that matching tires (make and model) is important wherever possible. However, I also don't like the idea of having to throw out (or sell at a huge loss) a pair of perfectly good tires in order to achieve that goal. You might consider getting a similar tire for the front, in 215/40-17. As long as the performance characteristics are similar to the Pilot Sport PS2 in the rears, it would almost certainly work okay, and you wouldn't have to worry about rubbing.

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I NEED front tires....I'm not throwing out perfectly good ones. The fronts, by virtue of the camber settings, have worn down pretty good. It just so happened that the rears wore first. :biggrin: Thats why I already replaced them with the Michelins.

If I were in your situation, I would give some thought to which of these tires you might want to eventually switch over to, and then buy that one in 215/40-17 for your front tires now, for use with the Pilot Sport PS2 rears. When your rear Pilot Sport PS2's wear out - which will be sooner rather than later (this is an NSX, after all :smile: ) - you could then replace them with the same tire as your fronts, and use those tires as a matched set on an ongoing basis.

Oh, and the tire I would choose out of these is the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 (and not because both 17" sizes are on special right now at the Tire Rack, although that's nice too)...

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already made up my mind that I'm going to buy Michelins. I've had em before on several occasions and have been very impressed. I just wanted to know if it would rub or not.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't get why you are changing the factory sizes with stock wheels. What is the size you have in the rear? 275 what?

 

[SilverStone05]

I don't get why you are changing the factory sizes with stock wheels. What is the size you have in the rear? 275 what?

I don't see whats to get......switching to a superior, wider rear tire on a rear wheel drive sports car = much better traction under acceleration and a more aggressive look. I can't see why one wouldn't do it when buying new tires considering the rear rims are 9 inches wide and easily accomodate that size. Not to mention the surprisingly mediocre stock tires.

If you have a supercharger on yours, I don't see how you can get traction if you are still running the Bridgestone 255's in the rear.

 

[nsxtasy]

I'm talking about the tires simply called the Pilot Sports. (I replaced the rears with 275's instead of the 255's)

I would never have done that.

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I NEED front tires....I'm not throwing out perfectly good ones. The fronts, by virtue of the camber settings, have worn down pretty good. It just so happened that the rears wore first.

I didn't misunderstand at all. Again, I recommended getting the proper size front tires in a different, non-Michelin tire, to replace your fronts which you need.

I don't see whats to get......wider rear tires on a rear wheel drive sports car = much better traction under acceleration and a more aggressive look.

Probably not true. If you are getting larger diameter rear tires, they will actually give you slower acceleration in each gear, with the same effect as getting taller gearing in your car.

Also, the big variable in performance is the type of tire (make/model) and its design (tread pattern, compound, etc). The type of tire is about 100 times more important to performance than the tread width. For example, the Falken Azenis RT-615 in 255/40-17 will give you better performance, including acceleration and cornering, than any Michelin street tire in a 275 treadwidth size.

I can't see why one wouldn't do it when buying new tires considering the rear rims are 9 inches wide and easily accomodate that size.

I can't see why one would do something like that, which degrades performance, when there are other choices which will actually improve performance instead (like getting better, stickier tires instead of wider tires).

 

[SilverStone05]

I would never have done that.

To each his own.

I didn't misunderstand at all. Again, I recommended getting the proper size front tires in a different, non-Michelin tire, to replace your fronts which you need.

After rereading the post, I see what you were saying and it was I who misunderstood what you wrote. Apologies.

Probably not true. If you are getting larger diameter rear tires, they will actually give you slower acceleration in each gear, with the same effect as getting taller gearing in your car.

I didn't say anything about faster acceleration. But what I did say about "MUCH BETTER TRACTION UNDER ACCELERATION" is indeed true. With two tires of the same make and model, the one with the larger surface area (i.e) wider contact patch, will provide "MUCH BETTER TRACTION UNDER ACCELERATION".

As far as your reasoning about a larger diameter tire slowing your acceleration, you are correct, but the difference is negligible at best and definitely over-compensated with the lack of wheelspin I experience with a wider tire. After all, a spinning tire means you are going nowhere fast.:biggrin:

Also, the big variable in performance is the type of tire (make/model) and its design (tread pattern, compound, etc). The type of tire is about 100 times more important to performance than the tread width. For example, the Falken Azenis RT-615 in 255/40-17 will give you better performance, including acceleration and cornering, than any Michelin street tire in a 275 treadwidth size.

I agree with you regarding the type of tire and compund playing a huge role in performance. However, giving subjective comparisons about two tires without some type of scientific test is futile. FWIW, I will say that I am biased towards Michelins after many years of use and many high performance cars, too many to list in my limited four line sig. :wink:

After doing some research on these Falkens, though, I see that they are comparable, in a performance regard, to the Michelins.

I can't see why one would do something like that, which degrades performance, when there are other choices which will actually improve performance instead (like getting better, stickier tires instead of wider tires).

C'mon now, it's not cool to give blatant misinformation for the sake of self-justification. Going from the stock Bridgestones at a 255 width to the Michelins at a 275 width was not a performance degradation by any stretch.

Again, thanks for the input.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Why not just get either the Falkens or Goodyear GS-D3s, for the front, and run mismatched tires for a 1000 miles or so, until the rears are gone, and you can get matched up properly? If you stick with the oversized Pilots, you'll be stuck with them for a while - until you have to replace all 4 at once. You must be mismatched right now anyway, right? Edit - looks like NSXTACY suggested the same thing already.

 

[nsxtasy]

With two tires of the same make and model, the one with the larger surface area (i.e) wider contact patch, will provide "MUCH BETTER TRACTION UNDER ACCELERATION".

Wider tires do not have a larger surface area (contact patch). The size of the contact patch depends only on the inflation in the tires and the weight of the car, not on the tread width. When you use tires with a wider tread width side to side, the contact patch narrows front to back.

I agree with you regarding the type of tire and compund playing a huge role in performance. However, giving subjective comparisons about two tires without some type of scientific test is futile.

I've driven on all of these tires. There are BIG differences.

FWIW, I will say that I am biased towards Michelins

That's obvious.

After doing some research on these Falkens, though, I see that they are comparable, in a performance regard, to the Michelins.

No, they aren't. Not at all. The Falken Azenis RT-615 is a specialty tire designed to give outstanding dry traction to the exclusion of all else (and does relatively poorly on wet surfaces and has a rather short treadlife). It features an extremely soft tread compound and large tread blocks. It gives significantly better performance than the Michelin Pilot Sport. Tires similar to the RT-615 (in design objectives and performance) include the BFG g-Force KD and the Yokohama Advan Neova AD07.

The Michelin Pilot Sport is designed to give more balance among dry performance, wet performance, and treadlife, and is similar to the better Goodyear F1 GS-D3 and Bridgestone Potenza RE050A (as well as Michelin's Pilot Sport PS2). If you're interested, you can see a comparison test of the Pilot Sport and the F1 GS-D3 here, and between the F1 GS-D3 and the PS2 here.

Again - the performance differences between different street tires are MAJOR. The differences between different tread widths of street tires are INSIGNIFICANT.

C'mon now, it's not cool to give blatant misinformation for the sake of self-justification.

I agree, which is why you should stop giving such blatant misinformation. And you should also stop ascribing motives to others, and stop posting personal attacks (especially on anyone who is providing you with such useful, helpful, accurate information).

Going from the stock Bridgestones at a 255 width to the Michelins at a 275 width was not a performance degradation by any stretch.

It does not represent any significant improvement.

 

[SilverStone05]

Wider tires do not have a larger surface area (contact patch). The size of the contact patch depends only on the inflation in the tires and the weight of the car, not on the tread width. When you use tires with a wider tread width side to side, the contact patch narrows front to back.

The Michelins are inflated less than my previous tires, so there you go. Bigger contact patch.

I agree, which is why you should stop giving such blatant misinformation. And you should also stop ascribing motives to others, and stop posting personal attacks (especially on anyone who is providing you with such useful, helpful, accurate information).

Nothing I've said has been erroneous information. And every fact you've pointed out is probably true.

However, you trying to tell the forum that the handling/grip chracteristics of my car decreased (without ever driving it) after switching to a wider, superior tire is misinformation plain and simple. I didn't launch a personal attack on you, I called you out when you presented this crap to the forum. Nothing personal, bro.

Like I've said before, thanks for the input and Happy New Year.

 

[DIMITRIS]

no big deal i like to know all opinions not FIGHTS guys i like to learn of you
you been oroun longer then me i am 24 years old thats why i ask questions all the time
THANKS PEOPLE FOR YOUR HELP
THANKS PRIME

 

[NSXGMS]

If you have a supercharger on yours, I don't see how you can get traction if you are still running the Bridgestone 255's in the rear.

I guarantee I'll get better traction with my Azenis RT-615 255s than your Pilot Sport 275s on dry pavement. :wink:

As Ken stated the compound is exponentially more crucial to traction than the width of the tire.

 

[SilverStone05]

I guarantee I'll get better traction with my Azenis RT-615 255s than your Pilot Sport 275s on dry pavement. :wink:

As Ken stated the compound is exponentially more crucial to traction than the width of the tire.

Fantastic news to say the least. I can get some BFG Drag radials in 195's that I guarantee will get better traction than your Falkens. :wink:

Let it go, your comment contributed absolutely nothing to this post. I can't believe a simple question turned into such a pissing contest.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't see whats to get......switching to a superior, wider rear tire on a rear wheel drive sports car = much better traction under acceleration and a more aggressive look. I can't see why one wouldn't do it when buying new tires considering the rear rims are 9 inches wide and easily accomodate that size. Not to mention the surprisingly mediocre stock tires.

If you have a supercharger on yours, I don't see how you can get traction if you are still running the Bridgestone 255's in the rear.

Silverstone, there are problems with just swapping out the rear tire to a larger one that I can see. First of all, a wider tire = more unsprung weight. This weight is at the outermost diameter of the rotational mass where it makes the most difference.

Second, the track is being slightly widened, and changing the grip ratio in the front or rear results in more understeer/oversteer, in a case where the rear has more traction you are generally increasing understeer.

Third, the worst thing is that you are not just changing width, you are changing the overall diameter of the tire. Now all sorts of other things are slightly inaccurate, the speed sensor, TCS, speedometer, and the gear ratio of the car is slightly different!

I would say OK, all these are slight effects if the benefit outweighs it... but I don't see any benefits. It is a proven fact and nsxtasy is right in that compound matters MUCH more than section width. If more traction is needed, better to change the compound than to go wider.

I am a huge Michelin fan myself, and think they make great tires. But in the instance where they do not make the correct size for the NSX, I wouldn't bother.

This is nothing personal of course, you are free to do what you feel like on your car. But I don't think its a good idea to swap the factory sizes for something larger on the factory wheels. Its a detriment to the car's overall performance.