WORLD INNOVATION !! AP BIG BRAKE KIT with Stock Caliper

[Dirk]

World innovation! BIG BRAKE KIT WITH F1 TECHNOLOGIE. 330 mm AP ROTORS with OEM calipers. Can be installed in 2-3 hours and cost only 1.590,- Euro. The rotors are around 1 Kg lighter as the OEM Rotors and the OEM brake lines must not changed . Works fantastic.

Test car available. Kit need 17 inch wheels at the front.

For more info dial +491778250142 or mail

 

[MvM]

Dirk,

I knew your were working on this. Am glad you finally were able to pull it off.
Do you have any more pictures to show.
Also, do you have some more info on the brake-pedal feel, pedal-pressure versus braking-power etc.
One of the things I am most interested in is how you have solved the the caliper mounting-bracket issue.

 

[mcibuk]

Would like to see behind teh wheel too to see how the mod is carried out.
Is the conversion on front and rear or just front?
The fit seems really tight - won't the cooling of the disc be an issue?

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Hey, thats cool.

This has been discussed a few times here, and i have always been wondering how much better perfomance must be with this option.

Is there any reason for not going with the braided brake lines?


Let us see some pics without the wheels, and some inpression on performance.
Any chance you will be at the Spa weekend ?



Mich

 

[Dirk]

Brake Projekt

Hi Guys, thanks for your interest. I have driven NSX now for 8 years and I´m still like the perfect handling of the car. In this price range, I my mind it is one of the best handling sport car in the world. But the OEM Brake is quiet terrible. Usual after 2 weeks brandnew OEM front rotors are losing the perfomance. I also have driven 2 Piston caliper brakes on other cars like Corvette ZR 1, Renault Alpine V6 turbo cup version and the brake perfomance was amazing.

The big problem with the NSX Brake is the rotor quality (It seems Honda takes the rotors from the Civic shelf) and the brake temperatur and not the caliper.

As many knows the bigger brake from the newer model already brought advantage by the brake temperature and brake performance (they goes from 280 mm to 298 mm diameter), but the newer NSX loss the advantage with the higher car weight. I also tried from a friend the mov it front brake, but I wasn`t still happy with brake performance. The price/brake perfomance relation didn`t make me really happy. So why should I change to 4 piston caliper what cost a lot of money, but in my mind didn`t bring much more brake performance. The weight is for sure the advantage from the 4 piston caliper but 4 or 6 kg less is similar to 6 Liter less gas.

Brake safety is important thing so I give order to very reputant company to develop a brake to my idea. Now the brake is ready and I´m testing to find the best pads for this brake.

At the moment I drive the expensive Mintex M1177, but I`m not really happy with this. It is a race pads and it seems that brake temperatur window is to big by street use. I will test this week the ferodo 2500 pads and will quote the details. With the mintex pads the brake performance is already much much better comparing to the OEM brake.

For example emergency braking over 200 Km/h produce standing wheels and you`re thankful that you have ABS on board. In the first one to three seconds of usual braking, the brake works like OEM, but after then by more temperatur and more pressure the brake goes very powerful at the work. The grip of the tires (Bridgestone S03 PP 215/ 40 ZR 17) is now the weak point.

The cooling for the big rotors seems not a problem. The big diameter of the rotors bring already positive effect to the brake temperatur. The AP Rotors are around 1 Kg lighter as the OEM and are run direction bounded. They are designed to suck the cool air in the centre and blow the hot air quick away.
In my opinion more brake power at the front like 6 piston calipers produce make no sense because the grip of the front tires aren`t able to handle this.

At the moment I`ve only the kit for the front, but it seems not really necessary to change the rear by street use.

But one thing is for sure, the time where I was envious to the Porsche brakes is gone . I`ll be at SPA/Belgium by the Honda days and will bring some brake kits with me. If someone is interest we can assemble by this event the brake kit. (Special Price 150,- Euro for the assemble job).

 

[Dirk]

another pic

 

[Dirk]

one more

 

[Dirk]

the brake with azev

 

[Ponyboy]

Interesting! The biggest reason why I went w/ the Stoptech BBK was b/c of the stock cooling issues. But at $1,500+, the price points are just about equal b/t the two.

I'll be interested to hear feedback from your Spa event (Dirty dog! I want to do Spa! )

 

[CokerRat]

Since this rotor uses the OEM caliper, does that mean the caliper is in the same position, use the same mounting hardware, and therefore could be used with OEM 15/16" wheels?

Thanks!

 

[Ponyboy]

It's not going to fit the 15/16 combo. Its' a 330mm rotor and requires the use of a 17" wheel at least.

 

[NSX-Racer]

CokerRat: You just have to read the 1st post in this thread - the answer to your question is: No.

 

[Procar Specials]

Hi Dirk,

nice to have someone in Germany who also dont like the big Porsche brakes like me.

I tested them too at a customers car and I was very disappointed.
Too big spacers (25mm) are required, thats not that good.

Looking forward to meet you at SPA/Francorchamps.
Do you have pictures from the mounting kit (adapter) ?

 

[Dirk]

Hi Detlef,

you go absolut right. Big spacers at the front make the car by high speed more nervous. I`ve tried 20 mm spacers at the front and it wasn`t an improvement. I forget to say, in regular you don`t have to take spacers with my kit, exception are some wheels which need spacers to get more space for the kit. I have assembled the kit with O.Z. 17 inch Wheels there was no spacers needed, with the Azev 17 inch wheel 10 mm spacers are recommended.

With my brake kit you have automatic 3 mm more space at each wheel which have a positive effect for the handling, looks good and you can still use the OEM bolts and at least you save money because with the right wheel you don`t have to buy further spacers

I´m looking forward to meet you in Spa

Take care

 

[NSX-Racer]

?? I'm pretty puzzled about your experiences. I have 22 mm spacers at all wheels for nearly 6 years now - more than one year with high speed driving on the empty autobahn nearly every night from Baden-Baden to Mannheim - 60,000 km per year (sometimes top speed for more than 10 minutes per night) and never had any problem with stability. You should make an A/B comparison with the same car and the same tires (of course also with the same suspension) to have a clue of the influence of spacers.

I also don't know how someone could not be satisfied with the P- (or Mov'it) brakes - some NSXers in our club changed to that brakes after they saw and checked them at my car in late '98. None of them told me that he doesn't like them. If a brake withstands a long track day with race slicks and hard braking without fading I would call it very good.

Not to speak of the other advantages: Cheaper discs, cheaper brake pads than the OEM parts with its horrible prices, you can easily change the pads at the track and if you forgot to take some spare part with you there is always a P-car with the same brake nearby - no matter what kind of track day it is (even with our NSX and Honda sportcars club).

So I'm quite interested on which cars under what circumstances and with what tires you had that bad experiences. Maybe I should ask too if these brakes were really the same as I have (together with stainless steel lines) and if they were mounted and maintained properly.

 

[Procar Specials]

If there are no AC coolers into the front fender of a 'race car'
(I dont think that you and Gerard are using some ?)
and there are slick tires installed , that could makes that huge difference.

But most of the NSX drivers uses aftermarket wheels, which are bigger than your small OEM wheels. Than some big spacers into the front...I dont wanna comment that.

A street NSX with Porsche brakes and bigger wheels will definately get problems with running straight at high speed and with fading.
There will be another NSX driver in SPA, who told me the same last year. AFAIK, he owns a tuning shop.

But thats not our problem....
I only wanna say that the new kit from Dirk looks very nice (the AP rotors have the newest design)
and for that price it should be worth to test.
Nevertheless I like it if some guys has own ideas to make the car
more safe and better.

 

[Dirk]

Hi Wolfgang,

I`ve driven the spacers with OEM and O.Z. Mito II wheels (8J *17). By both you`ve better handling (fantastic handling) on Road use till around 170 km/h. With the Oem wheels by high speed the car was still stable and nearly the same as without spacers , but with the O.Z wheel which it is a heavy whell the stability in curves over 200 Km/h goes terrible. I`m not talking about perfect underground, but corners with not easy handling. I discuss the problem with a specialist (dipl. ing.) for Car Homologation and Car Safety from TÜV which is a friend of mine and he told me, to go on big spacer at the front is a step in the wrong direction and it covered my experience. For the rear takes the biggest spacers you can get you do nothing wrong.

For the Mov it , okay some guys like spaghetti carbonara and some guys spaghetti napoli but I´ve driven some really quick race cars not sport`s car with two piston calipers and the braking was awesome. If you didn´t take the seatbelt you´ve a problem in this car (okay the cars wasn`t really heavy maybe 1.000 - 1.100 kg), but as I test the mov it (only front kit and no idea which pads were assembled) on a 96 OEM NSX with big spacer, the brake power was "nice", terrible was that with quick driving the wheels (also O.Z. Mito II) most touch the innerfender. In relation to the price for the kit I would give the note 4 (1= excellent 6= poor). For the rating I must note, I didn´t have the opportunity to test in speed range over 170 Km/h. Okay some guys will say now braking should be test by over 200 Km/h, and they go right. But nevertheless till 170 km/h there was nothing awesome with Mov It. Try the test: Take the seat belt of make an emergency braking and look where are you seating after that. If your are in front of your seats I`ll apology ( He guys it`s just a joke).


Hope to meet you personally in spa, I know you`ve a lot of worthfull Nsx Kilometers on your back.

Viele Grüße

Dirk

 

[Dirk]

New pictures.

"And the best on the caliper still stands NSX and not P....."

 

[Dirk]

Yes I knew you want to see the adapter, but sorry company secret

 

[Dirk]

the beauty and the beast (330 mm AP front rotor and OEM 280 mm front rotor)

 

[Dirk]

show me your back you dirty thing

 

[Dirk]

I`m not sure if every 17 inch front aftermarket wheel will fix the kit so I take the measure. Inner Radius next to the taking centre for the bolt should be minimum 19,4 cm (inner diameter 38,8 cm).

 

[Procar Specials]

How much area of the pads are at the bigger rotors comparing to the OEM rotors ?
That should be different.

 

[mcibuk]

It's becoming more clear for me now - large rotor, same OEM caliper & hydraulics, special mounting bracket, same or upgraded pads depending on type of useage, 17" wheel for front with 38.8cm inner diameter - €1590.00
Contact area for pads must be the same as it uses same caliper - performance improvemnet comes from increased braking torque (18%) because of increased radius.
Nice Work!!
For fast roadgoing use, what negative influences are there in using a 17" wheel on front, for example: Do you need a lower profile tyre? Does the car handle badly in corners? Is the car unstable in a straight line at speed (lift) - if so what sort of speeds?

Dirk, did you do this mod on the rear wheels too?
By the way - i think you did a great job - could possibly interested in doing this at some future point, depending on some of the answers to above.

 

[Dirk]

Hi Detlef,

again, you go absolut right. You can still use OEM Size pads for the kit. But for the reason that the diameter goes bigger with the larger rotors the OEM Size pads must be a little bit modified. It is a easy job and you can do it with a file in a few minutes. The measure self you can take from the rotors when you lay the pads on the outer diameter of the rotors. You`ve only to file a few millimeters by the max heigh pad covering. Max. heigh for the modified pad covering is around 46,5 mm. Important is that the pads didn`t hang off about the rotors becaus this have a number of negative brake influence. The pads which we deliver for the kit are already modified

I´ll give you more details at spa.


See you