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A bunch of server work coming in the next few weeks

Joined
10 February 2000
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I'm making several "behind the scenes" changes in the next few weeks.

Among other things I am going to move the site from its existing dedicated server to a cloud server. This migration to cloud hosting is considerably more complicated than I originally expected, but should ultimately result in improved site performance and the ability to scale the site up in the future with the click of a button.

I will try to post announcements letting people know ahead of time before I do anything that takes the site offline, but some of them may be short notice, so keep an eye out for notices when you're using the site.

This will all probably start next week.

After all that is done I am going to take a look at vBulletin 4.x. Does anyone participate on a site using vB 4.x? Any comments about it?
 
it is great to hear about the workings of this masterful web site. You really do need to share more about the work it takes to keep this up and running. Performance is always more than acceptable and uptime is better than some fortune 500 companies can achieve!
you do an outstanding job. Without Prime, owning an NSX would not be near the same experience.
some cars may not even be on the road today without Prime. There is always more to learn...


I'm interested in who your cloud provider is, and more of those details that keep this site one of the best forums out there.

Thanks for all the very hard under appreciated work!
 
I'm interested in who your cloud provider is, and more of those details that keep this site one of the best forums out there.

I am currently using a dedicated server with Rackspace. But I'm not really endorsing them, just answering your question. I haven't been extremely satisfied with the service I've received for the price. If they were a mid-priced host I'd be very happy with what I get from them. But Rackspace is a premium priced host with the idea that they provide exceptional up-time and their company motto is that they provide "fanatical" customer service. Yet my actual experience over the course of about 5 years now is that I've had multiple significant service outages and customer service on the whole has been pretty average, with the occasional bright spot.

So why am I still with them? Well, it's a whole lot of work to move servers and the reality is I could probably save money but I've been through some absolute nightmares with web hosting companies in the past so I'm hesitant to try a new one. People joke about car dealers being shady... I never knew what shady was until I started dealing with web hosting companies. I'm a pretty laid back guy, so I have to feel really wronged by a company to get upset. But if I were to make a list of the top 5 companies that have ever seriously pissed me off, web hosting companies would occupy 3 of the 5 spots... #4 would be a local business that was owned by someone who I later learned suffered from severe mental illness.. unfortunately I guess he never got the help he needed because he eventually killed himself, leaving a wife and kids behind. So while he angered me at the time, I felt sorry for him later, and I felt terrible for his family after his suicide. I'm not even sure who #5 would be.

Some of my past web hosting experiences, in order from oldest to newest:

  • Dinix - They were OK until they simply vanished with no notice and all their customers just got shut off. This was pretty upsetting to say the least. Then we found out they were bought out by...<br>
  • WebHostPlus bought Dinix, then with absolutely no notice to customers they came in and shut down all of Dinix's equipment and loaded it into trucks to move to their data center. Which would be bad enough, but apparently even once they got it to their data they couldn't get everything set up right. Sites were down for days and days with no communication and no way to find out what was going on or an ETA of when things would be back. Google their name and you find tons of horror stories. I really have no idea how they are still in business. As soon as I could get to my data again I immediately moved to a new host named....<br>
  • ResellerWorkz was some small outfit out of Australia as I recall. Great guys, good hosting at a good price, good technical support. Unfortunately they were apparently then acquired or merged into....<br>
  • Servstra had ongoing technical problems, but the real nightmare was their "customer service." After being a good paying customer for a long time, but frustrated with the ongoing technical glitches, I gave 14-day notice of my intent to move per the Terms of Service (ToS) in place when I had originally signed up. Their response was that I hadn't provided adequate notice under their ToS, which they directed me to. Well their new ToS was completely rewritten from the one in place when I joined and required a full month of notice. I managed to dig the original up and noted that it had no clause that it could be subsequently modified. Not only that, but even if it was legal to do so, they had provided no notice of any ToS modification, which seems like the absolute least you could do for your customers from a business perspective.

    After I said that I really felt the ToS in place when I joined should be the one I was held to and that I had gone out of my way to make sure I abided by it, they became extremely hostile. They told me I had to immediately pay for the full final month, and that until I paid they would not process my termination request (so they would keep charging me for service) and that they would also come after me personally for the money... even though my account wasn't even past due at this point and at no point had I said I was not going to pay, I was just stating that I felt the original ToS under which I signed up should apply.

    Keep in mind that all of this was over something like $150 or $175 - the cost for service during the gap between the two notification periods (the one specified by the ToS in place when I signed up and the one in their new ToS about which they had provided no notice to customers). This is after I had paid them many thousands of dollars as a customer for something like 20 months.

    Then literally within minutes of me sending an email saying I didn't really feel this was right and I was seeking outside advice and would get back to them soon I was told my account was being sent to a collections agency. Even if you accept that I did owe this money, it was for the current month's billing cycle which had literally just started a couple days prior. My account was completely paid through the previous month's billing cycle. And again I had never even said I wouldn't pay it, just asking why they were not willing to honor the ToS I had agreed to when I signed up. So obviously they were pulling out the bully tactics.

    Of course from a practical standpoint they were unlikely to do much other than send it to collections and might not have really even bothered with that because the amount was so small. Anyway, I said screw it, I don't need to continue dealing with people like this in my life over chump change, so I just paid it. They immediately processed my termination and removed my server without even giving me the last month of hosting they had just made me pay for.

    So after treating me like a criminal for simply asking why they wouldn't honor the ToS under which I signed up, Servstra did not provide the last month of service they had coerced me to pay for. Is that legally considered theft? Regardless, I have never felt more extorted in my life. Between that and their absurd bullying it was really clear what kind of people I had been dealing with and the small $ loss was well worth it to be done with them. In retrospect I kind of wish I had told them to bite me because I had a backup of all my data and my credit record would have survived just fine, but it was probably best to just move on.

So after my nightmare with Servstra, my primary goal was to find a web hosting company that wasn't likely to mug me in an alley. I did some research and found RackSpace was one of the most highly rated (and highly priced) out there. I've been with RackSpace a long time now and it's nice dealing with a professionally operated hosting business run by friendly people who really seem to care about their customers. True they don't necessarily live up to the level of service they claim.. but when you are starving to death, a trip to the Wendy's drive-through is like a royal banquet.

So the cloud server I'm moving to is another Rackspace offering. It is frankly over priced to get a managed cloud server from them, but they are reputable, I can always reach somebody, and they seem to at least want to do a good job even when they fall short. I may move again in the future, but as you can imagine I'm not terribly anxious to stick my foot in the water to see if it is still full of sharks.
 
I administrate a site that uses 4.x and it seems to do just fine. A lot of things are simplified versus 3.x versions. Just be sure any plugins you have are compatible.

Also, as far as webhosting, take a look at MediaTemple. I've used them for years and their support is phenomenal. You speak to some who has English as a primary language, true technical support (not just call takers), and they aren't subleasing server space, they have their own datacenter. Big name companies use them, Starbucks, etc.
 
Sounds like the hosting business is not straight forward!

Thanks for keeping at it and 1,000's of us are very, very grateful, even on the other side of the world.

Cheers
 
Can you divulge how much money per year it costs to host this forum on the cloud server? I've got absolutely no idea, but I'd like to know. I'm one of the many who have benefited from this site and I'd like to send a small monetary token of my appreciation. I guess any little bit will help defer the costs. I tried to PM you, but your account does not accept PMs. Feel free to PM me with the info if you do not wish it to be public to this forum.

And, as others have stated - THANK YOU for all that you do to keep Prime my most-visited web site! :biggrin:
 
Can you divulge how much money per year it costs to host this forum on the cloud server?

The reality is that I have a ballpark idea but I don't know exactly. With the dedicated server I'm on now it's a flat fee every month, but under the cloud service it will vary every month depending on use. I may also change the configuration around a bit to move some static data out to their Cloud Files service instead of serving it from my actual server instance. If I do that I can also serve it through the Akamai CDN. I don't even have a ballpark idea of how that would affect cost at this point because I haven't even started looking at it... but it would deliver blazing fast performance

You can see basic RackSpace cloud server pricing info here: http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/managed_cloud/

It starts out semi-reasonably priced for a very small server instance with no bandwidth and without managed service... Once you scale up to a few GB of RAM, add some real bandwidth, and add managed hosting the price gets a bit steeper.

I don't really expect it to be much cheaper than the dedicated server I'm using now, but I'm hoping it will provide better up-time and be much easier to upgrade in the future. Plus it's trendy!

If you want to compare RackSpace's dedicated server costs, you can start here (the "Enhanced" and "Performance" columns): http://www.rackspace.com/managed_hosting/configurations/
 
If you want to compare RackSpace's dedicated server costs, you can start here (the "Enhanced" and "Performance" columns): http://www.rackspace.com/managed_hosting/configurations/

So, looking (quickly) at the link you provided, we're talking roughly $800-1200/month? Ay-carumba :eek: Is this the type of $$$ you're looking to outlay to provide Prime a new home? Who helps you defer that cost? Or - is my math way off base?
 
So, looking (quickly) at the link you provided, we're talking roughly $800-1200/month? Ay-carumba :eek: Is this the type of $$$ you're looking to outlay to provide Prime a new home? Who helps you defer that cost? Or - is my math way off base?

Hopefully it'll be on the low end... (I have some ideas to reduce bandwidth consumption now that I'll be paying per gig.) But yeah, it is an odd feeling to realize I've paid more to host this site now than a nice NSX costs.

My goal is to cover hosting and other costs with a combination of the generous contributions from members, revenue from the Google AdSense ads that run on the site, and now hopefully some link affiliation revenue. Some months are good, some are bad, but on average it seems to work out OK. Luckily it doesn't take a genius to run a "business" that simply aims to cover costs. :wink:
 
With Rackspace, you're mostly paying for their managed service. Do you really need them to support the underlying operating system and configuration? That's usually not needed.

My background is in web site/server development with a high volume of transactions. I really don't think that a cloud service would be the ideal solution, or cost effective.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that a properly configured mid-range server (dual processor with dual or quad cores, 10k rpm SATA drives and lots of RAM) would be more than sufficient. This key to any LAMP server is how MySQL and Apache are configured in accordance with the average about of RAM used per thread by Apache and the buffers in MySQL.

A mid-range server without managed support should run around $500/mo with SoftLayer. That could be much less with any active promotions. SoftLayer typically has coupon codes to double the RAM at no extra cost.
 
Lud I'll do it for 250........I've got a windows 2000 and an abicus.........
 
Lud, not sure why you've had such bad luck with hosting companies - I think some of the smaller mom & pop shops aren't well managed...

Hopefully rackspace will be better! A friend of mine works there - let me know if you have any issues.

Is it running Linux? Let me know if you need any help as I'd be willing to lend a hand if needed for System admin work since this is what I do for a living. :)

https://www.serverbeach.com/

This is another option and cheaper than the above (Even with the enterprise option ~$350 / month) - I also have several friends who work here.
 
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With Rackspace, you're mostly paying for their managed service. Do you really need them to support the underlying operating system and configuration? That's usually not needed.

My background is in web site/server development with a high volume of transactions.

My background is not web site / server development, so the managed service is pretty attractive to me. I've stumbled my way through doing it on my own with some of the past hosting companies that didn't offer managed service and I really don't feel it is a very good use of my time to sit there figuring that stuff out.

I really don't think that a cloud service would be the ideal solution, or cost effective.

Sure, the ideal solution (to me) is probably a dedicated database server and a cloud website. But that's even more complicated, so I figured maybe I should try one step at a time. As for cost effective, I guess we'll see, but cost is not my primary criteria.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that a properly configured mid-range server (dual processor with dual or quad cores, 10k rpm SATA drives and lots of RAM) would be more than sufficient. This key to any LAMP server is how MySQL and Apache are configured in accordance with the average about of RAM used per thread by Apache and the buffers in MySQL.

I'm 100% certain you are correct.

A mid-range server without managed support should run around $500/mo with SoftLayer.

I assume you have personal experience with SoftLayer? Googling them I saw pretty mixed reviews.
 
Lud, not sure why you've had such bad luck with hosting companies - I think some of the smaller mom & pop shops aren't well managed...

Hopefully rackspace will be better! A friend of mine works there - let me know if you have any issues.

Is it running Linux? Let me know if you need any help as I'd be willing to lend a hand if needed for System admin work since this is what I do for a living. :)

https://www.serverbeach.com/

This is another option and cheaper than the above (Even with the enterprise option ~$350 / month) - I also have several friends who work here.

I'm not sure why I had such bad luck with hosting either. As I said I've been with RackSpace for years and they are OK. Yes I've been using some flavor of Linux for years now. Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it!
 
I'm pretty happy with the performance of the new cloud server. In an effort to improve performance even more, I set the site up to use a Content Delivery Network (CDN) which should help with static content, javascript, etc. particularly for some of our members who live outside the US where latency to a US server can be high making the site feel slow regardless of server performance.

Some more info on CDNs for anyone interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_delivery_network

The site will also begin challenging some suspicious Internet traffic. I don't think this is likely to impact any real users, but if it does it will most likely be people in specific parts of the world where a lot of bad Internet traffic originates. If it does impact you, please let me know what is happening so I can try to whitelist your IP or something.

In general, if anyone experiences any weirdness please let me know if you experience any weirdness.
 
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