• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Boostzilla!!!

Re: Re: Timing Retard

nsxxtreme said:
This would seem wrong because you are not always under boost. The systems I have seen Retarded timing depending on boost levels. MSD makes a BTM (boost timing management) that I used on my 9lb boosted integra. But I don't see how it could be used on the NSX with seperate coil packs. Maybe the turbo kit used something similiar.
Click to expand...


When I pulled timing I would pull 1 degree per pound of boost. This was with a Rx-7 though on a Motec. RPM did NOT matter and does not matter it should be with boost or else you are going to KILL the responce your car has.
 
I fudged a bit on explaining the Bell kit specs to keep it simple, but figured someone would ask. I believe it is:

6000 RPM - 6°
7000 RPM - 12°
8000 RPM - 18°

but I don’t know if it is abrupt at 6000 or actually starts at 5K to be 6° at 6K. I’m assuming the latter.

And yes, I realize that is not how it should be done, as I have often posted in these forums. Load (boost) should be the principal factor but that could not be done by reprogramming of the stock ECU for the simple reason that it never sees the boost. So, Bell had MecTech (actually an individual no longer with them) reprogram the ECU based on RPM alone. As I said above, not ideal but better than no retard at all. To aggressive? Again yes, but your suggestion of 1° per PSI is too low IMO, and Corky needed to be conservative.

As for the ideal timing map, although boost is the primary factor I disagree that RPM is irrelevant. Even without boost there are reasons to back off timing slightly at very high RPM, as I think you will find the stock ECU already does. If you have a piggyback that simply applies a delta to the stock map then you may be able to assume that the stock curve roll-off is sufficient, but I would certainly start my tuning with a bit more then work my way back while monitoring knock sensors. On the other hand, if you build the actual timing map, as with an AEM or Motec ECU, then you better plan on some retard with RPM as well as boost if you want to optimize the entire power curve.
 
1 degree of retard per pound of boost is what I used as well. I have no idea what the NSX would require.

The idea is that the car is running stock when not under boost. When you start boosting the BTM or whatever you are using retards the ignition depending on how much boost you are boosting this is in addition to any retard the factory ECU is supplying. What would the benifits of haveing your timing retarded if it is not under boost be?
 
nsxxtreme said:
1 degree of retard per pound of boost is what I used as well. I have no idea what the NSX would require.

The idea is that the car is running stock when not under boost. When you start boosting the BTM or whatever you are using retards the ignition depending on how much boost you are boosting this is in addition to any retard the factory ECU is supplying. What would the benifits of haveing your timing retarded if it is not under boost be?
Click to expand...


Yep, 100% if running the stock computer it does not matter what the timing is run -1 per pound as a RULE, the NSX could be different. Maybe someone like GJ or someone who runs a stand alone could let us know. Also bost is not just boost. If I run 10 pounds with cats no header. And I run 10 pounds with header and no cats the 10 pounds is going be more power AND may need 1-2 more of timing pulled. Also ALL turbos and SCs are different. so 5 pounds on comptech's vs 5 pounds on a huge turbo are 2 different things.
 
matteni said:
Those that think CompTech is perfect don't remember the early days! I remember seeing (and driving) Doug's Flaimobile at NSXPo 98. Allthough it was impressive - it definately whent through a buggy period. The reason I recomend CompTech to many people is that after 6 years they have most of the bugs worked out. There are still a couple bugs in their customer service department but overall - not a bad deal for people that want as close to stock and are relatively insensitive to cost.
Click to expand...

I hope they don't put the new SC in this section!

http://solar.innercite.com/comptech/racedisclaimer.html

$5500 is a kickass price for SC kit for NSX tho. The think I like about boostzilla is that you won't have to move your radiator bottle or will you have tough time getting to the oil cap.
 
Re: Comparing apples to oranges

Originally posted by ncdogdoc (snip)Of course, to be fair, the Comptech's torque figures need to be graphed, not just the HP numbers.
Click to expand...

HP is proportional to torque X RPM, so you can work backwards and calculate the torque curve if you already have the HP vs. RPM curve.
 
Ryanmcd2 said:
Yep, 100% if running the stock computer it does not matter what the timing is run -1 per pound as a RULE, the NSX could be different. Maybe someone like GJ or someone who runs a stand alone could let us know.
Click to expand...

I am running a total of 16 degrees of timing when under 20psi of boost with pump gas, and 22 degrees with race gas, when running 15psi I was running a total of 20 degrees with pump gas and 26 degrees with race gas. All timing is based on RPM and boost, if the motor gets to full boost at 3800rpm then the timing would be at 16 degrees and if I back off the throttle and get out of boost the the timing would be at 36 degrees at 3800rpm.
Drivability is as good as a stock NSX, tuning time was around three hours.
 
Well I think the stock timing maxes out around 42 (someone can check me on that) so Gerry runs a pretty aggressive setup(surprise!). At 15psi it was roughly -1.5 degrees/1psi overall at 3800 RPM, but I suspect that’s also with everything else dialed in very well throughout the power band. The less precise your fuel management, the safer you need to play it with timing, and relying on an FMU is not very precise.

Gerry, can you tell us what it looks like closer to redline?
 
While we’re at it, here are a few examples from base maps on other aftermarket turbo & SC cars running the AEM:

Honda B16A @ 6psi: 1.72°/psi
Honda B16A @ 12 psi (SC): 1.22°/psi
Eclipse running @ 10psi: 1.65°/psi (1.47 @6psi)
Dodge Stealth @ 10psi: 1.27°/psi (but starting much lower overall)

I think the trend is similar to what Gerry’s numbers showed. The “retard slope”, for lack of a better term, is typically pretty steep for the first 6-10psi then less so from there on up. These are from people who worked at getting not just peak power but optimized power with safety at all RPMs. So if you talk about it as a straight line that ends at 1°/psi on a high boost application such as your other cars, you are probably leaving some power behind in the meat of the powerband. But more importantly, if you apply that 1°/psi slope on a low boost car that was tuned very aggressively from the factory (I’d say the NSX qualifies) then you may get into trouble. And despite repeating myself I’ll reiterate that these numbers are from cars with very accurate fuel metering which allows them to push the timing issue a bit further than would be safe with an FMU.
 
Last edited:
Gerry, can you tell us what it looks like closer to redline? [/B][/QUOTE]

Being that the car is Turbo charged and gets it's power from being under load I do not see redline very often, I am always short shifting to keep the motor grunting, that is also why timing is critical when motors go under load especially in the meat of the torque area were a motor is more prone to detonate.
At 8200rpm under load I run 16 degrees, the same as when under boost at 3800rpm and a A/F of 11.8 with pump gas.
 
NSXGOD said:
Actually is is $100.00 LESS. :D
Click to expand...

hey NSXGOD, mind letting us know what the "Mongozilla"is all about?!!? ;)

the boostzilla.com site is such a teaser!
 
NSXGOD said:
You coming to NSXPO? look under the hatch and you will find out.:D
Click to expand...

unfortunately not, I have to work and take care of business..

but I'm sure fellow NSXers will let us all know!

im looking forward to have a SC, cause if i go turbo, no one in my area is trustworthy enough to tune my engine.. :(

i need something safe, reliable, and something to work easily around
 
Gokwi said:
[
im looking forward to have a SC, cause if i go turbo, no one in my area is trustworthy enough to tune my engine.. :(

i need something safe, reliable, and something to work easily around [/B]
Click to expand...

Choose wisely.;)
 
1TITENSX said:
Whatever happened to the R&D on this SC :confused:
Click to expand...


mothra.jpg



Armando
 
I dont think it was cheap talk. My conclusions are based on the fact that there is one running (and been running) and putting down the numbers he said it would. I dont want to open up a can of worms, buts seems to me; if anything, it was the marketing that never brought the "boostzilla" to the public.
 
I can tell you that the kit did/does exist as I was present at the dyno. I don't know the details, but money kept it from market.
 

Similar threads

danmusiccode
Injectors and fuel pump for Boostzilla Stage 2
Replies
11
Views
1K
danmusiccode
danmusiccode
danmusiccode
HKS FCON from Dali Racing BoostZilla
Replies
0
Views
120
danmusiccode
danmusiccode
danmusiccode
RC Racing 440cc SL9 injectors
Replies
0
Views
80
danmusiccode
danmusiccode
Honcho
What was your first post on NSX Prime?
Replies
24
Views
2K
khiroshima
khiroshima
Heineken
CCU Service and Repair - No Operation
Replies
1
Views
166
Old Guy
Old Guy
Back
Top