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Does it make sense to provide health insurance to smokers and drug users?

I am not saying doctors are thieves.

Doctors generally are not thieves. But the AMA is. The AMA is the institution that lobbied the government to create barriers to entry into the medical profession in the early 20th century, limit the supply of doctors and create the overly strict licensing and educational requirements that all directly inflate the cost of medical care. The doctors have little room to offer affordable service even if they wanted to--and still many honest and charitable docs still try to.

The disappearance of midwives, for example, is a perfect illustration of the effects of these barriers to entry. Most general medical care does not require nearly the amount of education that is currently required by the government. Most other western countries do just fine with far less education required for certain areas of medical practice.
 
It is sad that in this country were are so concerned about lawsuits ( and rightly so ) that it puts someone's life in danger because they can not afford proper medical care.

Indeed.

Limiting or getting rid of frivolous medical lawsuits would do a great deal towards lowering the costs of healthcare. This is something the current administration should be focusing on.
 
This made me cringe (found in the link SilverStone05 listed):

"The overhaul will be phased in slowly, over the next three to four years. But eventually all Americans will be required to carry coverage or face a tax penalty, except in cases of financial hardship. Insurers won't be able to deny coverage to people with health problems, or charge them more or cut them off."

Hello! What do they think is the reason people don't have it today? I mean, obviously some are just too cheap to do it but mostly, they don't feel they can truly afford it.

What defines a "financial hardship"?
 
More excerpts from that article:

But a middle-class family of four making $66,000 would still have to pay about 10 percent of its income in premiums, not counting co-payments and deductibles.

That's $6600 a year, which is cheap compared to Steve but it's nearly 50% more than what I pay (and I have a family of four) through my company medical insurance.

The Congressional Budget Office says the bill wouldn't have a major effect on premiums under employer plans, now about $13,000 a year.

Again, I pay about $4200 a year through my employer. This would indicate I'll pay at least 50% more, assuming a 50/50 split with my employer.
 
More excerpts from that article:



That's $6600 a year, which is cheap compared to Steve but it's nearly 50% more than what I pay (and I have a family of four) through my company medical insurance.



Again, I pay about $4200 a year through my employer. This would indicate I'll pay at least 50% more, assuming a 50/50 split with my employer.

My fiance's employer sponsored plan premiums just went up by 35% for next year. Copays jumped from $10 to $50. Emergency room visits from $100 to $500.

The funny thing is that she works in an all liberal office. Everyone there voted for Obama....but they are blaming their change in premiums on Bush's failure to "reform" healthcare.

Why isn't anyone price sensitive when it comes to the folks who are already paying out of pocket?

Why can't a for profit industry price based on inherent risk? Where are all the actuaries going to find jobs?
 
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If you have spent your money on drugs and a plasma and don't have enough left over to buy health care then you are eligible.

While the stereotype may not be quite that severe, it is basically what I was getting at. Most people that can't afford it now won't be able to "afford" it later, no matter if it's only $50 a month.
 
To all who, in this thread, downplayed the advantages that accrue to the wealthy: I hope you noticed the Supreme Court's significant decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which will further the ability of money to influence politics in the USA.
 
To all who, in this thread, downplayed the advantages that accrue to the wealthy: I hope you noticed the Supreme Court's significant decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which will further the ability of money to influence politics in the USA.

This isn't going to be as drastic a change as many think since money & connections have been buying politicians forever but now it'll just be a little cheaper and easier for them. Less hoops to jump through. A much more efficient corrupting.

Back to the insurance issue I just read an interesting opinion that the penalty for not buying in is going to have to be much, much higher than they are proposing (~$750/yr) to offset the cost of people only getting insurance when they need it.

Remember, the only way lower-risk people are going to buy insurance is if it's very cheap and even then it's generally going to be only catastrophic-type coverage with a large deductable. This new plan, since anyone can get insurance at any time (akin to getting fire insurance as your house is burning) very few, if any, lower risk people will want to pay any premiums and they'll just wait until something happens and the risk pool won't be able to be spread properly among people who are higher risk and lower, causing the premiums received to fall incredibly short of the payouts.

This plan will bankrupt itself so quickly it's not funny. Then the govt will come back and change the rules of the game on us and jack up the penalties for not participating to $3-5,000 annually. We can't say no then as a large segment of the poulation will have become dependent on the system.

This plan is easy to balance out on paper but there are many real-world realities that will cause its bankruptcy. Prices will go up, fraud will go up, people will seek care more often, lower-risk people won't buy in at all, etc.
 
Bottom Line .......... Smoking Kills!

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