Honcho's NSX-R Track Weapon Build Project

[socalx]

If you can get type r seats for 12k please let me buy a set as well! Last time I priced them they were 20k. I wish I still had my last set. Also I would start with a 91-94 car auto or manual that has not had frame damage. to do an o2 plus conversion is really a 12-14k cost with oem parts. If you try to find one that has already been converted you will find that it doesn’t have oem ballasts, bumpers, hood and the parts used are crap. So if you want the 02 conversion on a coupe done right your best just doing it yourself.

 

[Honcho]

Hope you get started on this project soon Honcho cant wait to see what's in stored. This might be of interest to you.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/for-sale-1991-acura-nsx-na1/6621146030.html

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about! A real rat of a NSX that has been used and abused. Perfect car to hack up, strip to the frame, repaint and emerge as a pristine NSX-R. In this case, it looks like it is a salvage car, though, so obvious structural concerns. Also, the front bumper does not look like a DF or OEM piece. Taitec, maybe? Fitment is horrible.

If you can get type r seats for 12k please let me buy a set as well! Last time I priced them they were 20k. I wish I still had my last set. Also I would start with a 91-94 car auto or manual that has not had frame damage. to do an o2 plus conversion is really a 12-14k cost with oem parts. If you try to find one that has already been converted you will find that it doesn’t have oem ballasts, bumpers, hood and the parts used are crap. So if you want the 02 conversion on a coupe done right your best just doing it yourself.

Socal, I was wrong- it's $12k for ONE seat lol. If the car doesn't already have it, I am thinking about the DF conversion parts, as they are less complex (and expensive) than OEM but still get you to a factory-level look.
[MENTION=32537]mwagner10702[/MENTION] I originally wanted to do something like the Motons. My thought was to work with Tim at Pole2Flag for a bespoke Penske setup. But, after doing some research, it seems like the double and triple adjustable dampers are probably overkill for my needs. Unless you are a racing driver with a suspension engineer and chassis dyno on hand, you can get in real trouble with all of the adjustments. I'd prefer something that has been tested and worked out on the NSX already, with a small amount of adjustment available for different track conditions. Hence, the KW (Billy still seems to love them and no one can dispute the amount of development that went into them) or the JRZ RS, which has universal praise from some people I really respect here (CL65, RYU, John Martin, etc.)

Also, does anyone know if [MENTION=5576]Procar Specials[/MENTION] is still doing the NA2 R gauge clusters? How do they get the shift lights to work?

 

[docjohn]

I think I get what you want but personally I would not confuse a restomod with a R clone with a track car.....you will waste money trying to do all three...I would be building a light track car ....

 

[Mac Attack]

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about! A real rat of a NSX that has been used and abused. Perfect car to hack up, strip to the frame, repaint and emerge as a pristine NSX-R.

Ugh, that car looks like it was owned and "taken care of" by a five year old. Now the ad says he's looking to screw up a Supra. What a shame.

Good luck on your quest. Docjohn is correct though - there is no way you'll get a NSX-R clone on a 75k budget.

 

[socalx]

Pro car used to sell an adjustable Shift light kit. A small electric box where up you can set at what rpm the red and green o2 R shift lights activate. I personally used it and it worked very well with minimal effort. Don’t know I’d detlef is still selling it and it used to be that he would not sell the shift light kit unless you also bought the gauges

 

[MexiRicer]

Excited to see this thing come to fruition, subscribed!

 

[Valhalla]

I'm in too for the ride. Come on Honcho, pull the trigger!

 

[docjohn]

at least the big honcho is not a random phantom dreamer....so I suspect we will see a rebirth..

 

[Honcho]

I think I get what you want but personally I would not confuse a restomod with a R clone with a track car.....you will waste money trying to do all three...I would be building a light track car ....

Doc I get what you are saying- that is a helpful observation. While my post is more of a spaghetti at the wall kind of concept, thinking about it in the way you put leads me to the conclusion that what I'm really after is a R clone with a bit more pep and possibly a modern suspension (depending on whether I can source a real R from Japan). Kind of like Anil's car but less baller status lol. He started with a $90k 2002 and then put probably another $90k into it. My concept is starting with a $25k 199X and putting $50k into it, doing as much work myself as possible. I am track focused because I now have a legit daily with the GT-R being gone- a F-150 Supercrew. The truck can tow 13,000 pounds, so this NSX will have a ride to the track. One of the big constraints on my old NSX was that I was constantly stuck in the tension between driveability and track performance. Now that the constraint is gone, it streamlines the concept. This will be a third car that I drive on nice days and take to the track. I could just get a Cayman R or used GT3 and be done (with probably much less headache lol), but since I sold the NSX and had the GT-R, I've discovered that I truly love the NSX. It's my car (we all have one). So, I'm going to do this with a NSX.

Ugh, that car looks like it was owned and "taken care of" by a five year old. Now the ad says he's looking to screw up a Supra. What a shame.

Good luck on your quest. Docjohn is correct though - there is no way you'll get a NSX-R clone on a 75k budget.

Oh ye of little faith! It is possible, Dave. One thing I've learned in the corporate world is that most projects grow to fit the budget. No matter where you set the number, somehow you always end up coming close to it at the end. Human nature, maybe. The most important part is to set the number and fight hard to stick to it. Without the stroker kit, on the rough numbers, a $25k automatic coupe car could be done for $78,900. That's only $3,900 off budget. Yes, I know the spreadsheet isn't complete and there are always things that happen during a project (my personal nightmare is Joe L. tells me that the car was hit despite a clean carfax and it's going to be $10k to fix the frame), but as a rough ballpark, it is damn close to budget. There are levers you can pull to reduce cost: used parts, do the work yourself, exclude expensive options, aftermarket vs. OEM, etc. What this really is about then is am I patient enough to take advantage of those options. Since now I won't have to drive this car every day, the answer is yes. That could mean waiting a year for a used 6-speed trans to show up on the Prime marketplace. Budget discipline.

Pro car used to sell an adjustable Shift light kit. A small electric box where up you can set at what rpm the red and green o2 R shift lights activate. I personally used it and it worked very well with minimal effort. Don’t know I’d detlef is still selling it and it used to be that he would not sell the shift light kit unless you also bought the gauges

I'm going to buy the cluster. TheNSXshop has a set on sale now, but no shift light kit that I can see. My backup plan is to ask Kaz how to wire it off the AEM Infinity lol.

Excited to see this thing come to fruition, subscribed!

Me too!

I'm in too for the ride. Come on Honcho, pull the trigger!

The #1 hurdle right now is Mrs. Honcho. I casually raised this last night and was met with "WHAT?? You just sold the GT-R! You don't have time in your life for another fast car- you're kids are little! I mean what are you even going to do with it? My basement isn't even finished yet and you're talking about dropping 75 grand on another old NSX?" The one positive is that she fondly recalled all of my NSXCA friends and what a great group of people they are.

So. There's some work to do.

 

[docjohn]

haha a gt-4 would solve your track itch...I love that you you love the nsx enough to desire such things.....sice you will be pulling the nsx to the track you could built up the motor more I love NA in a light car....you should not limit your suspension to the type R spec..go noncompliance everything and springs in the range of 1000/600....and good shocks with agressive alignment and slicks:smile:....I know you have access to the old DAL white papers.John Vasos is also a good living breathing resource...

 

[Honcho]

haha a gt-4 would solve your track itch...I love that you you love the nsx enough to desire such things.....sice you will be pulling the nsx to the track you could built up the motor more I love NA in a light car....you should not limit your suspension to the type R spec..go noncompliance everything and springs in the range of 1000/600....and good shocks with agressive alignment and slicks:smile:....I know you have access to the old DAL white papers.John Vasos is also a good living breathing resource...

I almost pulled the trigger on a 2017 Casino White NSX in February, but realized I already had that experience with my GT-R. I went on Prime, saw all my old friends, and realized I really just want an old NSX.

I am going to do non-compliance everything- basically replace any rubber part that is possible. It sounds like you are describing the old school Comptech Pro suspension lol. What a track beast of a setup! I'm probably going to stay away from a full race suspension and slicks mostly because of the oil pan. I'm using this pan:



Even with a baffle, you gotta keep the G's down somewhat. I am also going lightweight- delete A/C, delete audio, delete ABS, CF bumper beams, etc.

After playing with several iterations of the spreadsheet last night, it looks like the stroker kit will be beyond the budget no matter what I start with. Instead, I'm looking at a 3.3L rebuild with ITB. It still should get me close to my ~50 whp goal but cut about $8k off the costs. Benson's is running a deal where he will re-sleeve your block and assemble the bottom end to your spec, including custom pistons, rods and ARP bolts for $3k, including balancing the rotating assembly. I would go with 95mm pistons, new bushings, SoS billet mains and stock rods.

For the ITB, I want to do a FRP intake box that connects to the factory airbox/bellows. I want it to look like Honda made it- kind of like a ribbed top cover integrating the "Honda" cover plate into the cover. We have several good fabricators here locally, so should not be a problem and FRP is much cheaper than CF. Sort of like the Kakimoto box shape, but much less Kustom Karz JDM bling.




Funny thing about the DAL info- he said not to bother with the adjustable cam gears because it is essentially impossible to degree the cams on the NSX engine without access to a engine dyno. Since I am probably going to put cams to take advantage of the ITB/displacement bump, it makes me wonder. No cam gears would save $1000, but what am I losing in gains?

 

[DocL]

Paul you are about to go down a rabbit hole like one you've never seen. Sometimes it's best to wait and hold for a car that has most you'd do to it already done.

 

[Mac Attack]

... leads me to the conclusion that what I'm really after is a R clone with a bit more pep and possibly a modern suspension (depending on whether I can source a real R from Japan). Kind of like Anil's car but less baller status lol.

Ah, OK. If you neglect the real Type R Honda pieces, then my NSX is probably similar (driving dynamics-wise) to what you are after. No A/C, no radio, no ABS, no TCS, etc. Single pane divider glass, no sound insulation, etc. It weighs 2800 lbs with a full tank and me in it. For a few years I ran it at 295 WHP and a 8500 RPM redline N/A.

In that case, I would skip the non-compliance stuff because over time and usage, the non-compliance pivots DO GET noisy and worn out. On a track rat, that's fine... on a semi-street car it gets old real quick IMO.

For the suspension, why not just put the money into a nice coilover setup like the MCS setup [MENTION=32537]mwagner10702[/MENTION] has, or perhaps Ohlins DFV or TTX offerings? Penske will just refer you to Erik Messley or Anze suspensions if you were to contact them. They are some of the limited few in this country having experience with the correct mounting methods and recommended springs/valving based on the calculated motion frequencies for your particular car. JRZ, Moton/AST are all good old names with reliable offerings, but all of them do the same basic damping function without any special differentiation. The Ohlins DFV offering I would have to say is the best option for us street/trackers... No, I don't have these, not sponsored by them, and don't plan on buying them! Just an unbiased opinion from an engineer that has studied all of the designs....

Good luck with the build!

Paul you are about to go down a rabbit hole like one you've never seen. Sometimes it's best to wait and hold for a car that has most you'd do to it already done.

That's what I would do too.

 

[RYU]

Just buy the Civic Type R and be done with it Paul

 

[mwagner10702]

For the suspension, why not just put the money into a nice coilover setup like the MCS setup @mwagner10702 has

That's what I'd do . . . oh wait I did.

Paul, if you are in Portland for the IndyCar races in late August I'd be happy to meet and let you check out the MCS setup. I have a track day September 6th (Thursday) and would be happy to take you around PIR as well.

 

[Honcho]

Paul you are about to go down a rabbit hole like one you've never seen. Sometimes it's best to wait and hold for a car that has most you'd do to it already done.

I know, Rob- it's kind of my intent, actually. Part of the joy of my NSX was collecting the parts, putting it together over time and making it just like I wanted. This time, I want to spend a few years lovingly putting it together and then have this great car at the end that I can use. We just got back from France (don't know if you remember my wife is French) and we talked about spending a year after we're retired travelling around France and driving all of the race tracks there. I got her to agree to add Spa and the Ring lol. So, this is a very long term project. If I just wanted to have a right now car, I would have kept the GT-R or bought that new NSX. Or a 911 GT3

Ah, OK. If you neglect the real Type R Honda pieces, then my NSX is probably similar (driving dynamics-wise) to what you are after. No A/C, no radio, no ABS, no TCS, etc. Single pane divider glass, no sound insulation, etc. It weighs 2800 lbs with a full tank and me in it. For a few years I ran it at 295 WHP and a 8500 RPM redline N/A.

In that case, I would skip the non-compliance stuff because over time and usage, the non-compliance pivots DO GET noisy and worn out. On a track rat, that's fine... on a semi-street car it gets old real quick IMO.

For the suspension, why not just put the money into a nice coilover setup like the MCS setup [MENTION=32537]mwagner10702[/MENTION] has, or perhaps Ohlins DFV or TTX offerings? Penske will just refer you to Erik Messley or Anze suspensions if you were to contact them. They are some of the limited few in this country having experience with the correct mounting methods and recommended springs/valving based on the calculated motion frequencies for your particular car. JRZ, Moton/AST are all good old names with reliable offerings, but all of them do the same basic damping function without any special differentiation. The Ohlins DFV offering I would have to say is the best option for us street/trackers... No, I don't have these, not sponsored by them, and don't plan on buying them! Just an unbiased opinion from an engineer that has studied all of the designs....

Good luck with the build!

Honestly, if the R suspension is still available I'm just going to do that. I'm not chasing lap times anymore- this will be track driving for the joy of it, the sound of the ITBs, etc. For a race car, I agree MCS, Penske or Ohlins would be the way to go. They are all phenomenal dampers with tons of data and factory support. If the R is not available, I will go with the JRZ single-adj. It's already 90% plug and play and, as Regan points out, there is a lot of local support for the product.

Interesting feedback on the non-compliance. Less than chasing performance, I'm just trying to solve the idea that this car will be at least 25 years old and most of the rubber will be rotted out. I like the prothane kit for most of those bits, but some of the knuckle joints, etc. must be pressed out. KSP sells new rubber bushings for most of the parts that are pillow ball, but still rubber. I just want to refresh the rubber bits, not necessarily win Le Mans! I certainly don't want the car squeaking and creaking over every bump.

 

[Honcho]

That's what I'd do . . . oh wait I did.

Paul, if you are in Portland for the IndyCar races in late August I'd be happy to meet and let you check out the MCS setup. I have a track day September 6th (Thursday) and would be happy to take you around PIR as well.

I actually may be in Portland for work this fall. I'll let you know.

 

[DocL]

... If I just wanted to have a right now car, I would have kept the GT-R or bought that new NSX. Or a 911 GT3...

LOL. That's is exactly where I'm at in this stage of my life. Hence why I have a 2017 NSX sitting in my garage. Good luck. I still remember looking at that garbage NSX down here with you.

 

[Honcho]

Just buy the Civic Type R and be done with it Paul

Nah, too easy. Plus, it's a turbo FWD. Anyone remember the Eagle Talon TSi? Torque steer hero!!

LOL. That's is exactly where I'm at in this stage of my life. Hence why I have a 2017 NSX sitting in my garage. Good luck. I still remember looking at that garbage NSX down here with you.

Funny, that rat of a NSX would have been perfect for this project! All I really need is a clean, straight frame. Everything else will be taken apart and rebuilt/replaced. My kids both asked me to get another NSX yesterday (confession, we had been watching Best Motoring videos after lunch lol).

A few more developments. I raised this project idea with Mrs. Honcho over the weekend and was surprised to hear a relatively quick yes! Her only requirement was that I get moving on the basement and master bath renos. So, time to start calling contractors and setting up estimates lol. I also was able to get her to agree to purchasing any NSX-R or other OEM part that is in danger of being cancelled/discontinued and unavailable before the project start date. So, for something like the door badges, probably not worth buying now because, even if they discontinue them, there are so many floating around the marketplace I could probably snag a set a year or two from now. The below list is what I can think of right now. Anything there you all think I should grab now?

Door badges
Hood emblem
Rear center light w/ red H
Door sill plates
Shifter plate (still not settled depending whether I go with 5MT or 6MT)
Gauge cluster
Suspension
Chassis Bars
Horn button
Pedal set
Rear strut bar
Headliner\Pillars
Stereo delete plate

---------------------------

CLUTCH AND LSD

Doing some more research: Original thought for clutch was the Giken STR2, but it is noisy (like a cowbell or dinner bell ringing when disengaged). Saw that Regan and Billy also spoke highly of the ATS clutch options for the NSX. But, the list of options is dizzying. From what I can decipher, it looks like the model MH23H152-14S (Spec II single-disc metal) has the lightest pedal effort and more than enough clamping force for my planned engine mods. Does anyone have experience with the ATS metal clutches? Are they noisy like the Giken? Do you need to use the NSX-R input shaft for the ATS clutch like you do for the Giken on the 6-speed? Basically, based on fitment and availability, I think it's down to the following:

** US 5-speed w/ATS 4.429 Silent LSD $2,445
** US 5-speed w/JDM short gears and NSX-R clutch pack $1,316 (my old setup)
** US 6-speed w/NSX-R mainshaft $7,656
** US 6-speed w/ATS 4.235 Silent LSD + NSX-R mainshaft $10,105
** US 6-speed w/ATS 4.429 Silent LSD + NSX-R mainshaft $10,184
** US 6-speed w/ NSX-R LSD + mainshaft + 4.235 R&P $___________??

It's looking like the 6-speed, regardless of mods, is going to be the most expensive part of this build. Normally, I would propose looking for a used trans, but if I do that, it's probably going to require a rebuild. So, let's say I pick up a used 6-speed for $4k (just guessing here). Add $575 for the NSX-R mainshaft and then $2,400 for the rebuild kit and you're right back at around $7k, or the price of a new trans. Therefore, it seems like it is best to either go with a new 6-speed +NSX-R mainshaft and live with the factory 4.06 FD and helical diff; OR go with the ATS 4.429 on a US 5-speed box (but this would only make money sense if I bought a 5-speed NSX)

Exhaust

I checked in with my Japan parts exporter and, due to the strength of the dollar, it looks like I can get genuine Fujitsubo Super EX headers and my beloved Super Ti exhaust and stay within budget! He is going to see if the NSX-R suspension can still be sourced too.

Headlights

Champ White pre-painted units are still available! Question though: can I just re-use the 91-01 headlight bulbs and sockets in the 02+ units? I recall that the genuine NSX-R did NOT use the HID bulbs to save weight. I can't find any specific NSX-R headlight bulb/socket harness in the JDM parts catalogs, so I wonder if they just used the wiring from the 91-01 cars?

ABS

I did the 2000+ ABS conversion on my old NSX once already using the KSP harness. It worked great. However, do I really need ABS for a track toy? Back when I was learning how to race, nobody had ABS and you learned to "threshold brake" instead. But, I'm reading horror stories of people shredding new sets of tires at the track because "I don't have ABS." It would be nice to save the weight and costs here. I trust my right foot lol.

NSX-R NA2 Gauge Cluster

I'm going to get this...probably soon. I see Procar and theNSXshop both sell the gauges with circuit boards. Way back when, Vance Hu got into an argument on Prime about whether you needed the circuit boards for use on a USDM (mph) cluster. I think the consensus is that you do. Assuming the circuits change the needle sweep from mph to kph, what do you do about the odometer? Can you keep it, or will the KPH sweep also make the miles go up too fast? Can you convert your miles to km and swap in the km odometer at that number?

So many things to plan...

 

[Stillsittinlodo27]

Can’t wait to see this in action! [emoji7]


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[Honcho]

Can’t wait to see this in action! [emoji7]


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Me too! Lots of planning to do though.

Transmission

After more research in the cobwebs of Prime, it looks like the auto-to-manual conversion total cost using new parts is about $1,500 (not including the trans and ECU). Problem is, I can't find a list of part numbers. Having had the interior out of my NSX, I can break down what I think is needed into the following:

Shift lever and Bracket (Junkyard)
Shift cables and clips/stays: 54310-SL0-033 (Junkyard)
Clutch Hard Line A: 46960-SL0-A03
Clutch Hard Line B: 46961-SL0-A01
Clutch Hard Line C: 46962-SL0-030
Clutch pipe grommet: 46908-SL0-000 x 2
Clutch joint: 46939-SL0-003
Clutch Pedal Assembly w/ switches and harness (Junkyard)
Clutch Master Cylinder: 46920-SL0-A01; 46912-SD4-000; 46928-SF1-000; 94070-08080 x 2;
Clutch Master Reservoir parts: (Junkyard)
Damper Bracket: 46995-SL0-003; 95701-06012-08; 95701-06016-05; 93402-06012-05 x 2 (damper bolts appear to be discontinued?)
SoS damper delete kit: DPP-651
Intermediate shaft: 44500-SL0-010; 44517-SL0-305 (Junkyard)
Transmission brace: ? (Junkyard)
3 engine mounts: 50805-SL0-010; 50810-SL0-010; 50820-SL0-000 (Junkyard)

Something not evident from the parts diagrams is the electrical harness. There are two clutch switches and I think a neutral switch on the shift stalk. How do you wire them in? Is it easier to just get a manual trans harness from a junker?

***********EDIT************
So, RF Yamamoto sells this, which is apparently what all the Japanese NSX shops use for the conversion:

http://www.rf-yamamoto.com/NSXmission/5.html

It would save some hassle running that clutch hard line, but in my case the car would be stripped down to the frame, so maybe not as much hassle? Has anyone run the hard line before? Any issues with a braided stainless line vs. a hard metal line? Pedal feel? Durability?

 

[bigdare23]

I recently converted my car to a manual, and I used that RFY braided line. No issues so far. I never drove a stock manual car, so I don't have a car to compare to, but my clutch pedal feels "normal" compared to my other manual cars. Just a side note, that line deletes the clutch damper, so that may impact the feel of the pedal.

You can see it nicely tucked behind the master cylinder.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VuwHYxG3sL9Z6ZuF7

This link has a complete part list (with part numbers) for the conversion.
https://fancy-craft.firebaseapp.com/NSX/report/at-mt/report1.htm

 

[Honcho]

I recently converted my car to a manual, and I used that RFY braided line. No issues so far. I never drove a stock manual car, so I don't have a car to compare to, but my clutch pedal feels "normal" compared to my other manual cars. Just a side note, that line deletes the clutch damper, so that may impact the feel of the pedal.

You can see it nicely tucked behind the master cylinder.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VuwHYxG3sL9Z6ZuF7

This link has a complete part list (with part numbers) for the conversion.
https://fancy-craft.firebaseapp.com/NSX/report/at-mt/report1.htm

Wow, THANK YOU for the links- it is enormously helpful! How did you wire in the neutral and clutch inputs? The guy in the link kept his AT ECU, so he went nuts splicing signals getting there. I will use AEM INfinity, so it is simpler in that instance?

 

[bigdare23]

Wow, THANK YOU for the links- it is enormously helpful! How did you wire in the neutral and clutch inputs? The guy in the link kept his AT ECU, so he went nuts splicing signals getting there. I will use AEM INfinity, so it is simpler in that instance?

No problem.

Sorry I don't have the exact details regarding the wiring, because I had the guys at Daisy's do the conversion for me. I do believe the changes in the wiring are not ecu dependent and will still have to be done if you run Infinity. Most of the wiring changes are made at the AT shifter assembly.

I would reach out to Meyagi. He can better explain what's necessary regarding the wiring.

 

[Soundeffects]

This is a deep rabbit hole...I bought a project NSX and turned it into a really great NSX that means something to me BUT, I’d probably buy a turn key Ferrari 360 or Porsche gt3 if knew how much time it would take. Given the money may be the same as one of these cars and I love my NSX better, but the time invested in a car that few people support is something I’ll never get back.

Do what makes you happy. I love NSXprime and the crazy people that modify these cars. It really does make it a reason to own an NSX, without this board, I would have never modified a 25 year old car like the way I did.