Thank you! I keep telling these guys this and all I get back is "yeah but it's got more power so I THINK it'll be faster"
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Just for fun
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
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Thank you! I keep telling these guys this and all I get back is "yeah but it's got more power so I THINK it'll be faster"
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How much more? how much more does an NSX-T minus 150 pounds weigh than an NSX-R exactly? You are talking like we are comparing an NSX-R to an Escalade...
"Think" is different than "know.".... I think you may have a ton of brake dive b/c the brake balance has been dramatically weighted towards the front. .
Didn't you just say "think is different than know"? :biggrin: I researched this BBK and talked to Racing Brake in detail before doing this. This is not some system that was thrown together. The increase in rear rotor size is actually just slightly more than the fronts. They also gave me a lot of advice on pads. The weight penalty is minimal as it is offset by the lighter forged aluminum hats.
VintageracerNYC's race on RB's on this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80162
Everything I've ever read lists them at 2800. So your looking at about 200 lbs difference if the car you race doesn't have stereo and Nav as Jason ( NSXsupra ) had mentioned . If you tracked you'd understand that that's a lot of weight and you'd lose it if you could. I googled and found 2800 lbs at supercars.net. They also had this to say about the tires, suspension and brakes.
Handling
By contributing to high-speed stability, the aerodynamically induced down force achieved in the NSX-R has forced a selection of harder suspension settings which increase cornering performance. Overall the suspension is tuned to promote higher cornering limits. Increased damping rates, larger stabilizer bars, reinforced damper mounts and rear control arm bushings make for a more responsive drive.
The limited slip differential has been tuned as has body rigidity with strut tower bars.
Honda's quest for high cornering speeds led them to develop a custom, asymmetrically patterned Potenza RE070. Repeated Suzuka Circuit testing during the tire's development laid the groundwork for detailed balancing of the tire grip in tune with the balance of the suspension settings. Lightweight wheels were developed together with BBS.
Significant improvements were achieved in the braking systems, specifically resistance to high temperature and fade. The hydraulic assistance has been increased and the ABS has been tuned to match the harder suspension settings.
Notice how they keep saying "tuned"! Hopefully this is starting to sink in and maybe now your starting to think about wh ythe car had done so well in track races. Unfortunately our NSX-Ts are not tuned to the performance of the NSX-R. Again not saying that they can't be but you can't ignore suspension in your endeavor.
I looked and looked and looked... and I think I've finally run into something that I can't find on the Internet.
I would guess the stock NSX-T to skidpad at about .93 G's and the NSX-R to garner probably 1.0G, maybe a hundredth or two more or less for either of my guesses. Those 5 hundredths or so of added grip (only my guesstimate) is a huge difference and a car near to 1G is a real handling ace. And unlike some other cars, the chassis on the NSXes are very predictable so you can actually use all of the grip it has without being scared (yes, even the standard NSX provides this sure feeling).
Still, I think the 60 added HP is just too much for the NSX-R to make up. WingZ, I understand the importance of weight and suspension (I think everyone on Prime does). I once watched some show or DVD or something... a dude in a 360 CS (most HP of the three), a woman in a fully race-prepared Viper (I think) and a purpose built open-wheel formula car of some sort. As anyone here might guess, the CS got his ass handed to him, the Viper placed 2nd and the purpose built car, with like 1/6th the HP of the CS, won. But with two cars like the -R and -T that are so close to each other in their build, I think 60 HP is just too much.
Oh, and Dave... you might actually have more of an advantage than 60 HP... I just quoted what Detlef said. He also did mention for one of them, that I can remember, that it was some sort of special test motor or something from Honda. Maybe that's why they made so much power? Maybe they were measured at the crank? (the motors were not installed in a car when he took his pics).
Oh, and for those that want to actually do this test: it doesn't have to be here in the states... we don't have NSX-R's here, but they *do* have NSX-Ts in other countries! :tongue:
I think this'll be my last post in this thread. Nothing more to say unless I come across those stats. But I'm not going to spend more time looking. It made this fun conversation frustrating when I couldn't find what I was looking for!
J
I've seen Zanardis post 93g ,but never a NSX-T they do 90g. I know your not replying anymore but for everyone else if the NSX-R does pull 1.0g that is a HUGE cornering difference between the two cars. "J" the NSX-R and T are not that close in build. Honda took a base NA2 coupe and modded testing and tuning those mods as they went. We NSX-T people are still running on the 97 suspension tweaks. Would've been great if they gave us Zanardi suspension but they didn't. I normal driving the NSX is stable and secure and maybe 9/10th but at 10/10ths it can be tricky and you better know how to correct a mid engine car correctly or you'll get into trouble.
Thanks for jumping in though J and we'll talk to you later:biggrin:
When NA2 was introduced, the weight of NA2 cpe also increased. It adopted extra reenforcement of the T, so the NA2 Couple is actually stiffer than NA1. So the ultimate NSX is very much any NA2 Couple.
Don't forget, a fully accessorized NA2 R is about 100lbs less than the regular couple, or less. So if you have a regular couple, you can get close to the NA2 R's performance by changing the suspension and sway bars.
Dude you are crazy! BTW The FHM chick looks as crazy as Lindsey and has no curves to speak of. I guess you like those anorexic types ( probably saves mod money if you don't have to feed them. Plus side is your not pulling around a lot of extra weight )
For all the money you've put in your car try having a driver that looks like this instead
Of course if you can get this woman in your car
He won't listen Vance. Unless the conversation starts with "super" and ends in "charger" he's not listening
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I am back for more:tongue:
I agree with MOI and location of the weight. These happen to be also lighter by a decent amount.
Stock rotor:
Front: 16.15 lbs
Rear: 14.15lbs.
RB racing roter:
Front: 12.18 lbs
Rear: 12.12 lbs
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Someone was looking for the skid pad number:
NSX-R is suppose to be capable of 1.01g skidpad according to Forza:biggrin:. Zanardi NSX on the other hand was tested with Viper, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW beating 0.99g in the 0~100~0 shoot out.
2002 NSX-T was tested and pulled .91g by C&D. Carrera also pulled a .91g during same test. NSX-T is comparable to 996 Carrera. They did mentioned somehting about unfavorable testing condition at Laguna Seca. On other tests, 996 Carrera had pulled .96g.
Steve Millen's lab time in Laguna Seca during that day in 2002 NSX-T was 1:54.74. I will see if how much I can beat it with bone stock NSX-R in Forza just for entertainment. Then I will kick NSX-R's ass with a NSX-T + Dave's mods. I have not attempted it. I did tried it on Tsukuba. Stock NSX-R is indeed quite hard to beat even in a game.
Shawn,
I agree with MOI and location of the weight. These happen to be also lighter by a decent amount.
Stock rotor:
Front: 16.15 lbs
Rear: 14.15lbs.
RB racing roter:
Front: 12.18 lbs
Rear: 12.12 lbs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone was looking for the skid pad number:
NSX-R is suppose to be capable of 1.01g skidpad according to Forza:biggrin:. Zanardi NSX on the other hand was tested with Viper, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW beating 0.99g in the 0~100~0 shoot out.
2002 NSX-T was tested and pulled .91g by C&D. Carrera also pulled a .91g during same test. NSX-T is comparable to 996 Carrera. They did mentioned somehting about unfavorable testing condition at Laguna Seca. On other tests, 996 Carrera had pulled .96g.
Steve Millen's lab time in Laguna Seca during that day in 2002 NSX-T was 1:54.74. I will see if how much I can beat it with bone stock NSX-R in Forza just for entertainment. Then I will kick NSX-R's ass with a NSX-T + Dave's mods. I have not attempted it. I did tried it on Tsukuba. Stock NSX-R is indeed quite hard to beat even in a game.
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Jason what issue are you referring to? I have C&D July 99 and they show the Zanardi with 93g. Also what issue did C&D test a 02 NSX-T?
The NSX-R hood prevents a spare from being carried so they probably pulled the tools out of the trunk as well.
That's more than a decent amount, J. Downright impressive. I amend my comment to "However, the extra braking torque from the larger rotor and lighter weight may offset the greater MOI."
It'd be nice to see a before and after dyno or braking test.
Here you go, I don't know the issue for the Zanardi. My reading is off NSX Performance Portfolio book, artical below. That particular issue may be in FAQ section. I unfortunately do not own that issue in my collection. I do have following. It is Road & Track not C&D for the 2002 NSX-T test, I am getting old:tongue: , sorry.
Different day, different track, different results.
Not bad at all even against a C5 Z06 at Laguna Seca, slower but not earth shattering slower. Comparing to a car that is similar to NA2-NSXR performance (C5 Z06 also did 7m56s at that no name track in Germany). I guess stock NSX-T is not as shabby as it's owners might had imagined.
March 2002.
See... this just demonstrates how much you know.
You may be the only NSX forum member that calls her "FHM chick". you don't recognize her any more than you recognize which car is faster.
aehahe...i don't recognize her either....seriously, who is she? :tongue:
It's Danicka Patrick so what
She still has the body of a young boy and she's not cute. Sorry to bust your bubble ,but your a grown man and she looks like she needs a booster seat:biggrin: Also this is from the guy who said the NSX-Rs brakes overheated against the Lambos in "Motegi battle"
Danica Patrick
Man... wingZ you ruined the whole joke... you know when you have to explain a joke to someone.... hehe
I put her in because she knows how to drive and she would save me an extra 75 pounds putting me closer to your "R" weight... And you go on about how you like curvy women. Big boobs be slowing me down... lol...
Jason, you are a true NSX nut. I have never seen someone know so many facts and have so many articles and DVD's on their car.
I put her in because she knows how to drive and she would save me an extra 75 pounds putting me closer to your "R" weight... And you go on about how you like curvy women. Big boobs be slowing me down... lol...
Jason, you are a true NSX nut. I have never seen someone know so many facts and have so many articles and DVD's on their car.
Doh! Sorry:tongue: You guys will just have to be mad at me because for that I'd rather be slow..LOL
Yeah Jason has been the go to guy for me on this as well. I have car magazines going back over twenty five years , but my NSX books are few and far in between as I never liked the car. Generally if the NSX was on the cover I would pass it by. Of course that went with all Hondas for me at the time. If only I'd known..LOL
Silver supercharged NSX with no suspension mods and BBK at track
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/06-19-07page-Acura-NSX-Crash.htm
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/06-19-07page-Acura-NSX-Crash.htm
Don't worry, you ARE slow.
You just don't want to let this thread die, do you...
I'd seriously pull over, or pull out, of pull something for those curves - I wouldn't early apex it though:wink: :biggrin:
This guy turned in early, early apexed, then left early to go shopping for another car - The lesson: Don't take your car out on a track to "stretch its legs" if you have never had formal instruction both in car and in class.
That BBK and Turbo won't make you drive better, probably make you crash worse!
Didn't you just say "think is different than know"? :biggrin: I researched this BBK and talked to Racing Brake in detail before doing this. This is not some system that was thrown together. The increase in rear rotor size is actually just slightly more than the fronts. They also gave me a lot of advice on pads. The weight penalty is minimal as it is offset by the lighter forged aluminum hats.
VintageracerNYC's race on RB's on this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80162
This is not really true.
The Racing Brake upgrade uses the original NSX OEM calipers.
Like everyone (including msyelf) you will have to trim a little from the calipers in order to make them fit correctly but that won't change them into aluminum :smile:
This is also very NOT true.
These listed weights are only for the two-piece Racing Brake rotors in the original OEM 97+ sizes (298x28mm and 303x23mm), NOT the bigger and upgraded 324x28mm and 330x23mm. Those are significantly heavier.
As for the comparison, I think the biggest drawback on the modded NSX, as stated before, is the suspension. With a good suspension setup I suspect the CTSC NSX should be faster than the original OEM NSX-R.
Remember the VTEC Club DVD. Tsuchiya had his NSX-R modified as well, added stereo and other stuff, lowered the car and also changed the suspension. And he was faster on the track than the Honda-PR NSX-R.
Also, I believe, on the same DVD, there was a comparison with some older and modified NSX's which were very close to the NSX-R in laptime. And these were all cars without CTSC.
Also, the NSX-R which lapped the Nurburgring in 7'56'' did NOT use the original NSX-R suspension but a slightly modified one. Ask Detlef about that. And if I remember correctly, the NSX-R which was tested in the German Sportauto magazine was tested with having a 310 crank HP engine.
Uh Dave did you not get your facts straight on the brakes? If not don't you think it would be a good idea to explain why your info is different than MvM:wink:
Ah yes Mr Mods is on the spot ladies & gentlemen:biggrin:
Ah yes Mr Mods is on the spot ladies & gentlemen:biggrin:
Frankly I don't know what MvM is talking about. I never said the calipers are lighter. No one said that.
The chart above was info provided br Racing Brake and I believe it is accurate. The larger rotors' weight gain is mainly offset by the 2-piece design and aluminum hats. Jason quoted lighter weight, not me, and he is correct if it was the direct replacement (same size). Since mine is the larger size than OEM, there is no weight savings... just better feel and heat dissipation. Stop pointing fingers to take attention away from your own wimpy brakes.
ctually Jason implied with his post you actually said the weight penalty would be offset by the aluminum aluminum hats which is what RB says. I can't understand why RB can say what they say about their product and it's "science" but what Honda says is in your words "marketing"
Again why do you take RB info over Honda? At least give Honda the same "I think" that you do RB before you say say that one is better than the other. Plus your larger brakes are again offset by more weight. Do your weight reductions take into account the weight gains from your supercharger and BBK? Also how do you know what brakes I have since my last pics:biggrin:
Are you saying the RB chart is off and that the factory rotors are lighter? this is news to me. I will find out when I install them I will weigh everything.
I still can't see the type R brakes being superior on the track to the racing Brake upgrade. You know, a 100 pound weakling (like yourself for example) won't be able to beat up a fit 220 pound guy (like me) even if he knows "karate". Physics my man, physics... check the difference in rotor size. :biggrin:
I still can't see the type R brakes being superior on the track to the racing Brake upgrade. You know, a 100 pound weakling (like yourself for example) won't be able to beat up a fit 220 pound guy (like me) even if he knows "karate". Physics my man, physics... check the difference in rotor size. :biggrin:
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