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Osama Bin Laden is dead!

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So you are saying it does not matter to you how many people across the world suffer or die as a direct result of measures taken to protect "interests". Right?

Don't put words in my mouth.

But -do I put U.S interests and American lives above all? Yes, I do.

The U.S. didn't put a gun to Saddam's head and tell him to take over Kuwait, or to gas his own people- nor did we ask Osama to throw some planes into some important buildings.

We can't control the whims of terrorists, dictators and psychopaths- but we can control the safety and quality of our American lifestyle.

The lifestyle that we all live and enjoy- the lifestyle that few have any business complaining about.
 
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But -do I put U.S interests and American lives above all? Yes, I do.

Sometimes, these two cannot coexist. Many Americans have died (nevermind others) for what are essentially, financial interests. These are not your interests or my interests, these are corporate interests. You and I simply feed the corporation by purchasing their product... In this case, oil. Today we support the Saudi Royal family, the Kuwaitis, the Iraqi government we have helped bring into power, a corrupt government in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, and "freedom fighters" in Libya. I can guarantee you that the next sadam, the next OBL, will rise out of these groups. To think that foreigners attack us simply because they are "jealous of our success" is rather naive. I guess it is something you and I disagree on.
 
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Good timing for announcment.

NY Mets game.

9th Inning. Score tied at 1-1

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/35pfllMiLag" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Sometimes, these two cannot coexist. Many Americans have died (nevermind others) for what are essentially, financial interests. These are not your interests or my interests, these are corporate interests. You and I simply feed the corporation by purchasing their product... In this case, oil. Today we support the Saudi Royal family, the Kuwaitis, the Iraqi government we have helped bring into power, a corrupt government in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, and "freedom fighters" in Libya. I can guarantee you that the next sadam, the next OBL, will rise out of these groups. To think that foreigners attack us simply because they are "jealous of our success" is rather naive. I guess it is something you and I disagree on.

lol...naive indeed.

naivety would be be driving a supercharged Acura NSX, installing power hungry plasma TV's and other power hungry high end audio equipment for whoever will pay, yet still possessing the mock morality to lecture others on energy policy. :wink:
 
Silverstone05 and Turbo2Go both have valid points but there isn't one right answer. In this discussion you'll both have to agree to disagree.:wink:

Interesting scene here in the UAE. Since the announcement we've had navy ships everywhere off the coast and an unusual air presence....

Hmmmm.
 
Silverstone05 and Turbo2Go both have valid points but there isn't one right answer. In this discussion you'll both have to agree to disagree.:wink:

Interesting scene here in the UAE. Since the announcement we've had navy ships everywhere off the coast and an unusual air presence....

Hmmmm.

We did get a lot of intel from the raid so........
 
lol...naive indeed.

naivety would be be driving a supercharged Acura NSX, installing power hungry plasma TV's and other power hungry high end audio equipment for whoever will pay, yet still possessing the mock morality to lecture others on energy policy. :wink:

I've stated fact and not made this personal. This is not about you and I, it is more about being aware of what really goes on in the world. People die to pay for "interests". Not just foreigners, but also Americans. But since you have asked:

I put approximately 2000 miles per year on my NSX. My DD is a 4-cylinder Honda. I have gotten rid of our Chevy cargo vans and replaced them with Toyota Highlander Hybrids that I tear apart and transform into commercial vehicles. My company specializes in automation, and 35% of my work now is to make homes more green and efficient through the use of automated lighting, HVAC, solar control, etc. I have 20 solar panels on my building, and that creates more electricity than I use. My last project was the integration of a commercial office building with solar. I spend approximately 10% of our entire labor time recycling all of our materials, which no one else does, even though I make nothing for that time. More importantly, I am aware that being conservative and using less energy is better for the country. I am not preaching to you, you may live as you wish. It is a free country. I am not saying anyone should do as I do. This is not the point of my posts. My point is to show that what we experience today are results of actions of the past. Which we continue to do, today. If we don't acknowledge that, we will simply continue to have the same problems.
 
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The U.S. didn't put a gun to Saddam's head and tell him to take over Kuwait...

Actually, that may not exactly be true. We gave him the impression that we would look the other way.

"But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late '60s. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi (Chedli Klibi, Secretary General of the Arab League) or via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are solved quickly." ~ April Glaspie US Embasador to Iraq to Saddam Hussein
lordofwar.jpg

Halliburton = oil = Iraq


chart0306.gif
 
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Another major reason OBL hated America was that after we helped Afghanistan get the Russians out in the 80's we left also without helping to do any rebuilding or stablizing the country. He saw that as we only helped for our own benifit, keeping Russia from taking over another country but not to really help Afghanistan.

I'm not saying he is right for feeling that way and making it his life journey to kill Americans and Westerners, just saying it was another reason for his hatred for us.

Please read this carefully before you criticize my comments, just stating facts of what he has said about that situation.
 
@ Captain. All the energy related construction companies went up in value. Flour Corps, Parson, etc.

So the news today said it was an execution mission. Obama him self said "He was CAPTURED and killed."

Which means, Obama did not want to bring him back so he will be stuck with interrogation, use his favorite civilian trial in NY, etc.

It is too bad his body is not going to be shown any time soon due to so called sensitivity issue. I don't see why not, since OBL is the most wanted terrorist, and half the Middle East is already on fire. The only people we are offending are the victims of all the terror attacks since 1994 ordered by this guy.

At least the justice is served, and yes, the Americans cheered, and natural human nature when evil is killed.
 
If I was President, I would nab him and take him back to the ship alive, say he was dead and torture and interrogate him until we were done with him and THEN dump him at sea. No one would be any of the wiser as everyone already thinks he's dead and was dumped at sea anyway. Just saying.... :cool:
 
@ Captain. All the energy related construction companies went up in value. Flour Corps, Parson, etc.

Yes, but Halliburton also made billions with the logistical contracts in Iraq. No single company has profited more during any military action in world history than Halliburton has as a result of Iraq. With the exception of Warren G. Harding, Dick Chaney was the worst US President we have ever had. :redface:
 
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Yes, but Halliburton also made billions with the logistical contracts in Iraq. No single company has profited more during any military action in world history than Halliburton has as a result of Iraq. With the exception of Warren G. Harding, Dick Chaney was the worst US President we have ever had. :redface:

Keep in mind that there aren't too many companies in the world that can handle this type of work. From the US there are only two. Haliburton and Fluor.

This is what I understand - At the early stage of the war, no energy construction companies wanted to send their men into Iraq with the exception of Halliburton. Therefore, the employees of Haliburton accepted risks and took the contract offered. Fluor had the same offer from the US government but decided not to offer them to its employees, but received just as much contract as Hal from the point of approximately 18 months later. I know many people at the Fluor corps and was trained there in 2006 as a piping designer; EVERYONE I spoke from the Irvine office (Which is their head quarter at the time) told me they were offered contract worth $300 to 400k a year but declined to go.

So judge however you want; there are only two companies from the US that is biggest enough to take on the jobs, the other alternative was to offer the jobs to the French, which you and I both know, was not a good idea. The reason they complaint so much was because the amount of oil refinery jobs was lost during the Invasion since US was not allowed in Iraq before that.

BTW, all the energy related jobs were paid out Iraqi oil productions, not by the US government, with the exception of Military installations.
 
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20 years ago, most private contractor duties were handled by soldiers. Now war is mostly private business. Soldier duties are now all handled by private companies to the tune of $380,000,000,000 of tax payer money annually. That is half the entire military budget. The employees that work in these companies are mostly third-world hirees who earn close to nothing, while the cost to taxpayers has risen 86% since 2000. War used to immediately stimulate the economy because of an increased need for goods. That no longer happens because the dollars are soaked up by private companies. KBR, a division of Halliburton, who received seven Billion in no-bid contracts is being sued for giving troops poisoned water. Poisoned, because the ice that was given to the troops in drinking water was the same ice used to transport dead bodies. Yummm....
 
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Yes, but Halliburton also made billions with the logistical contracts in Iraq. No single company has profited more during any military action in world history than Halliburton has as a result of Iraq. With the exception of Warren G. Harding, Dick Chaney was the worst US President we have ever had. :redface:

Careful what you say bro, he might take you out hunting and then shoot you in the face w/ birdshot
 
I am no fan of Osama but am I the only one that is bothered by how we continue to kill the people that we supported in the past? Today's friend is tomorrow's enemy. Here is Donald Rumsfeld on a trip making deals with Sadam:

saddam_Rumsfeld.jpg


Sadam was our "friend and ally". We armed Sadam, gave him aid, sold him goods. Then we televised his hanging. Osama and the Mujahidin were "freedom fighters". We trained them, armed them, gave them aid. Now we put a bullet in their previous leader's eye. I won't get into what we have done in South America.

Here is another today's friend, and tomorrow's enemy:

holdinghands0hg.jpg


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Now Libya... does anyone wonder who these "fighters" are that are suddenly taking on the Libyan army? Really? I mean does an average population suddenly have the capability to Fight a country's army?

Causes have effects. History doesn't only go back a news clip. I am glad Osama is dead, but what about the next one? The one we are training and arming today...

Wow +1000000 I'm glad someone else sees the truth.
 
Actually, that may not exactly be true. We gave him the impression that we would look the other way.

Ok...lets come back to earth here. :biggrin:

Are we really giving terrorists a pass to murder U.S. citizens because what the U.S. did got their burkas in a bunch?

Are we really implying that what terrorists do is justified because we're a bunch of oil grubbing, NSX driving, greedy ass fat Americans?

Wow.
 
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My point is to show that what we experience today are results of actions of the past. Which we continue to do, today. If we don't acknowledge that, we will simply continue to have the same problems.

What you're saying is justification for the actions of cold blooded terrorists.

I'll never agree with that...so we'll have to agree to disagree.

On a more positive note- OBL is still dead and your new avatar is killer.
 
With all the credit being handed out on this operation (Obama, Bush, Cheney, torture, SEALs, etc, etc), we must not forget an important part of the SEAL Team. The Dog! Yes, once again man relies on his best friend to do some of the critical work.

Here is an article from the NY Times about that dog. Enjoy. :smile:




A Bin Laden Hunter on Four Legs
By GARDINER HARRIS
Published: May 4, 2011

The identities of all 80 members of the American commando team who thundered into Abbottabad, Pakistan, and killed Osama bin Laden are the subject of intense speculation, but perhaps none more so than the only member with four legs.


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Little is known about what may be the nation’s most courageous dog. Even its breed is the subject of great interest, although it was most likely a German shepherd or a Belgian Malinois, military sources say. But its use in the raid reflects the military’s growing dependence on dogs in wars in which improvised explosive devices have caused two-thirds of all casualties. Dogs have proved far better than people or machines at quickly finding bombs.

Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of United States forces in Afghanistan, said last year that the military needed more dogs. “The capability they bring to the fight cannot be replicated by man or machine,” he said.

Maj. William Roberts, commander of the Defense Department’s Military Working Dog Center at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, said the dog on the raid could have checked the compound for explosives and even sniffed door handles to see if they were booby-trapped.

And given that Saddam Hussein was found hiding in a narrow, dark hole beneath a mud shack in Iraq, the Seal team might have brought the dog in case Bin Laden had built a secret room into his compound.

“Dogs are very good at detecting people inside of a building,” Major Roberts said.

Another use may have been to catch anyone escaping the compound in the first moments of the raid. A shepherd or a Malinois runs twice as fast as a human.

Tech Sgt. Kelly A. Mylott, the kennel master at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, called dogs ideal for getting someone who is running away without having to shoot them. “When the dogs go after a suspect, they’re trained to bite and hold them,” Sergeant Mylott said.

Some dogs are big enough that, when they leap on a suspect, the person tends to drop to the ground, Sergeant Mylott said. Others bite arms or legs. “Different dogs do different things,” she said. “But whatever they do, it’s very difficult for that person to go any further.”

Finally, dogs can be used to pacify an unruly group of people — particularly in the Middle East. “There is a cultural aversion to dogs in some of these countries, where few of them are used as pets,” Major Roberts said. “Dogs can be very intimidating in that situation.”

Sergeant Mylott said that dogs got people’s attention in ways that weapons sometimes did not. “Dogs can be an amazing psychological deterrent,” she said.

There are 600 dogs serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that number is expected to grow substantially over the next year, Ensign Brynn Olson of the United States Central Command said. Particularly popular with the troops are the growing number of Labrador retrievers who wander off-leash 100 yards or more in front of patrols to ensure the safety of the route. A Silver Star, one of the Navy’s highest awards, was awarded posthumously in 2009 to a dog named Remco after he charged an insurgent’s hide-out in Afghanistan.

The training of dogs in Navy Seal teams and other Special Operations units is shrouded in secrecy. Maj. Wes Ticer, a spokesman for United States Special Operations Command, said the dogs’ primary functions “are finding explosives and conducting searches and patrols.”

“Dogs are relied upon,” he continued, “to provide early warning for potential hazards, many times, saving the lives of the Special Operations Forces with whom they operate.”

Last year, the Seals bought four waterproof tactical vests for their dogs that featured infrared and night-vision cameras so that handlers — holding a three-inch monitor from as far as 1,000 yards away — could immediately see what the dogs were seeing. The vests, which come in coyote tan and camouflage, let handlers communicate with the dogs with a speaker, and the four together cost more than $86,000. Navy Seal teams have trained to parachute from great heights and deploy out of helicopters with dogs.

The military uses a variety of breeds, but by far the most common are the German shepherd and the Belgian Malinois, which “have the best overall combination of keen sense of smell, endurance, speed, strength, courage, intelligence and adaptability to almost any climatic condition,” according to a fact sheet from the military working dog unit.

Suzanne Belger, president of the American Belgian Malinois Club, said she was hoping the dog was one of her breed “and that it did its job and came home safe.” But Laura Gilbert, corresponding secretary for the German Shepherd Dog Club of America, said she was sure the dog was her breed “because we’re the best!”

A version of this article appeared in print on May 5, 2011, on page A16 of the New York edition with the headline: To Serve and Protect, and Sniff Out Trouble, an International Dog of Mystery.
 
What you're saying is justification for the actions of cold blooded terrorists.

How can you possibly get that from anything I've written. LOL...

On a more positive note- OBL is still dead and your new avatar is killer
Finally something we both agree on. :biggrin:
 
the game of geopolitics/ arms/aid/hugs and kisses is a crapshoot sometimes it pays off and you recieve some dividends,other times you lose and the leaders you hugged go nuts/or just out and out lie...in the end the message should be the same,we mean what we say and we follow through on our promises or threats.sadly there are greater atrocities happening every day in Africa and there just is'nt enough vital resources on site for our government to put a major presence to.
 
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