• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Snap Ring (Transmission) Broke Today - Advice Appreciated

Wait a minute here guys - you don't need to convience me anymore. Read my post #41. I already decided to take the car to Bernie like 7 post before this one.

Second of all, what is a "student on a budget" doing with an NSX in the first place ? Aren't cheap Civics/Accords/Integras cool anymore ?

3rd Year College Student & I have the title right here so NO financing.
 
How much additional LABOR is envolved when replacing the clutch while the transmission is out?

Davis Acura wants an additional $300 (4hours???) labor to do the clutch while already charging for the snap ring repair.
 
nsxexotic said:
How much additional LABOR is envolved when replacing the clutch while the transmission is out?
Ask Davis Acura. They're the only ones whose opinion matters.

If you don't trust their estimates, and keep insisting on second-guessing them, then you shouldn't be taking your car there. And if you insist on doing this with any mechanic who might be working on your car, you should do all the work yourself...
 
What is the full line-item parts and labor estimate and what exactly are you having done? Where are you getting the parts?

Just changing the clutch w/ a snap ring repair should normally be minimal additional labor.
 
Larry Bastanza said:
For dealer prices, I think your labor is a little low too. I know that R&R for a clutch at Davis is $720 labor(last I checked), without the case swap. So, I think you will be at about $3000, not $2000.

Just reality IMO.

HTH,
LarryB

Hi Larry,
If doing a clutch takes about 7 hours than you pay more than $100 per hour???
Is labor that expensive in the States. I have done clutches a few times now. And I never payed more than $300 for labor.
 
Ken, maybe your dealership is awesome, but in my experience, dealerships rip you off left and right and blame it on "the book" which quotes labor times (anywhere else it would be fraud to work on your car for three hours and charge you eight just because "the book" says it takes eight).

He's just asking the group here if it REALLY takes an additional three hours. I'd ask the same question because I simply don't trust ANY Acura dealership ANYWHERE until they prove they can be trusted (none have yet).

Nsxexotic is the customer, not the dealership and the customer has the right to ask questions to determine if the dealership is being reasonable and fair and knows what they're doing. I suspect if the people in here say yes, it takes an additional three hours, he'll feel much more comfortable with the dealership and maybe stop second guessing them. He has no reason to trust anything other than Bernie can get the work done. Why the hell pay more just because the dealership says so if they don't actually put any additional labor in? EVERYTHING is negotiable. You already suggested he shouldn't ask Bernie anything, and Bernie is probably the only one there who REALLY knows how much longer it would actually take. So since he already got bad advice from someone other than Bernie at that dealership, why NOT come here and educate himself so he can arm himself with some facts in case he wants to negotiate the labor time and save himself some $$$.
 
nsxtasy - CAN'T I JUST ASK FOR PEOPLES OPINION!!! Its not like I said hey your wrong in front of Davis Acura's employees. I asked gently how much would it cost roughly and he said so and so and all I said was OK - I'll get it towed in.

Thank you Lud for the concern:
He said its about 1500 for the snap ring repair and I asked him how much of that is in parts - he said about $800. Second I asked him if they could do the clutch for me with intentions of using their parts and he replied, "What kind of clutch are you going to install?" He assumed most people don't like OEM clutches.

I asked, "How much more would it be for labor?" His reponce, "Your looking at about $1800."

Basicly thats $300 more. What do you think LUD?
thanks.
 
Before I start typing - I want to thank everyone for their help & input & opinions. inc but not limited to DDozier, jlindy, Chris@SoS, jlindy, MiamieNeSeX, nsxtasy, Larry Bastanza, docjohn, chriswtx, RichH, winreboot, kpond, steveny, pbassjo, lud, robr, ect.

You make a terrific point robr. Thanks for backing me up.

I would consider myself intelligent for asking questions and asking for other peoples opinions.

I know for a fact if you DON'T ASK FIRST - YOU WILL GET CHARGED MORE IN THE END! Even if I make a millions dollars a year I would still ask for this boards opinion - knowledge is power.

(btw - its not everyday where you spend almost $3000.00 to fix your car : your talking about a MONTH OF WORK, if I had a job! hehe.)
 
robr said:
I'd ask the same question because I simply don't trust ANY Acura dealership ANYWHERE until they prove they can be trusted (none have yet).
Then you shouldn't go to those dealerships. If you can't trust the place you're taking your car to, you shouldn't go there. Period.

There are always options, but they may not be convenient. You can take your car to a different dealer; most of us have a lot of choices within a 1-2 hour radius. You can take your car to an independent mechanic, either a generalist for common tasks like brake pads and fluid changes, or, if you're fortunate enough to have one with NSX experience in your area (like you are, robr), for even the most complicated tasks.

robr, you have never met any of the people at Davis Acura, either Bernie, or the management, or anyone else. I have. I know that they will do a good job and charge what's fair for it. Unless you have done business there, you have no basis for expressing an opinion about the quality of their work - especially by blaming them for some failings of another dealership. Shame on you for doing so.

nsxexotic, if you want to ask them questions, that's fine. You can even ask if what they are quoting is book rate, and ask whether that's what Bernie will actually do it in. But what you keep doing, over and over again, is asking the dealership questions, and then asking the same questions here - with the apparent intention of second-guessing the dealership and the quality of their work.

Taking your car to a dealership is, like most business deals, a two-way street. You should treat them with respect, and they should treat you with respect. What you are doing is, basically, trying to scam the dealership - exactly as pbassjo described. I know what it's like to run a service business. And, unless my business is really hurting for customers, I turn away people like nsxexotic - people who are abusive and treat my own people with disrespect and waste my people's time, and who are never happy with the answers they get or the service they receive.

nsxexotic said:
I know for a fact if you DON'T ASK FIRST - YOU WILL GET CHARGED MORE IN THE END!
I know for a fact that if you don't give any respect, you won't receive any, either. I also know for a fact that if you treat people the way you are doing, they will NOT go out of their way for you, they will NOT cut you some slack where they have the option of doing so, and you will NOT receive the level of service that they give other customers. I am not saying that this is necessarily the case at Davis Acura. I am saying that this is usually the case in most businesses. Your attitude towards businesses, and towards other people, leaves much to be desired. But you are young and obviously inexperienced in the business world (no matter what field you eventually pick, it will involve doing business with others). At least robr has a reason to feel hostile towards everyone in the world. You don't. Perhaps some day you will learn that you will get a lot more out of relationships when they are built on mutual respect than when they are entered with the assumption of hostility. If you don't learn this lesson, don't be surprised when you find out that some other people get breaks on things like goodwill repairs and such, and you don't. And when you find that some businesses don't want YOUR business. And when you find that when you need help, the people you ask for answers, who have dealt with you before, don't want to help you any more. That's the way the world works.
 
Whats wrong with you? What you have said is this in that last few post.
1. .....trying to scam the dealership
2. if you treat people the way you are doing.....
3. But you are young and obviously inexperienced in the business world
4. Ask Davis Acura. They're the only ones whose opinion matters.


1. Trying to scam the dealership??? I've only spoken to them twice. 1st time - I told him my snap ring broke and did mention that it probaly needs a tranmission case. He was wrongly informed perhaps and said most of the time you can just replace the snap ring. I didn't agrue. I said politely "oh I understand," and told him I'll bring it in for Bernie to look at it. 2nd time - I personally drove to DAVIS ACURA to speak with the rep I talked to and told him my situation. I asked him if he could tell me how much roughly and he said 1500 for the snap ring & addition 300 labor for the clutch. THATS ALL - Do you see any SCAM here.

2. your saying I treat people bad? don't even tell me how I treat people because YOU DIDN'T EVEN GO WITH ME TO THE DEALERSHIP. I treated him well and he treated me well - he also recommend me bring the car in during business hours and he will make sure the car if safe in the garage. He also offered me a number for towing if I needed it.

3. 3RD YEAR OF COLLEGE AS A BUSINESS STUDENT MISTER

4. uh sure.

Not everyone here is so rich like you. Where you can drop the car of and not even ask how much its going to cost. And not everyone wants OEM parts (clutches, ect). I know you have your own opinion and thats fine but do you have to bash every post I have on this board???
 
Ok everyone step away from the keyboard, take a deep breath, and go get a glass of wine (if your old enough) and calm down.

Ken, I understand your resolve on treating the business man with respect, I own my business as well, but maybe you should go back to the beginning of this thread and reread all post. Maybe you had a bad day at the office today, I did find your comments to more than a tad harsh.

nsxexotic, remember you asked for opinions, like it or not Ken has one and rarely has trouble expressing it. If you dont like the opinion just skip his post and wait for others to reply. Prime is an unbelievable resource to all who participate by posting questions and answers, but they do not give tests to join this great place and each reply must be taken as it is, a single reply to a question. The more replies to a single question and the more information gathered. Use this information to form your own opinion. No single person here has the answers to all questions NSX.

Ok, half time is over, now get back out there and score one for the gipper. ;)

Dave
 
nsxexotic,

You are right to be cautious. Davis Acura is probably right that the trans can be repaired with just a snap ring. The question is, how long would it work? You have every right to be cautious/suspect with anyone who would have told you this.

As for nsxtasy, I think Ken's overlooking a couple of very basic things.

1. No doubt he knows and trusts Davis Acura and he has had good experiences there. I have no doubt that they know him too. They know he is a virtual expert on his car and he has probably taught them a thing or two about the NSX over the last years. He'd be the last guy to be treated poorly.

2. Ken says that you shouldn't go to a dealership you dont trust. Trouble is, how do you build trust starting from zero? I think you do it the way the you have - asking questions and listening/judging the answers.
 
Last edited:
>robr, you have never met any of the people at Davis Acura, >either Bernie, or the management, or anyone else. I have. I >know that they will do a good job and charge what's fair for it. >Unless you have done business there, you have no basis for >expressing an opinion about the quality of their work - ?>especially by blaming them for some failings of another >dealership. Shame on you for doing so.

first off I did not make ANY negative comments about Davis. I said I don't trust any Acura dealership I have had dealings with (that doesn't include Davis), but I should expand that to say any car dealership regardless of the brand. They all use the "book rate" excuse for labor, and *THAT* is a swindle... so what if they all do it, doesn't make it right (I know all about doing something everyone else does and finding out the very hard way that it doesn't make it right). I am well aware of Bernie's reputation and while neither he nor Davis have worked on my car, I have met Bernie at past NSX events (I believe you were there as well at one of them).

All I am saying (and I am generalizing) is that you can't walk into a business and blindly trust them for the most part, they have to earn that trust. Bernie has earned trust all around for his mechanical ability with the NSX, but that doesn't mean that the trust extends to his place of work. Right off the bat nsxexotic was given poor advice (that he wouldn't have known was poor if it wasn't for the knowledge he gained from all the people here). He was looking for the same sort of knowledge when told it would take three more hours for the clutch.

Knowledge is power, an uneducated consumer is asking to be taken advantage of. Not to mention nsxexotic doesn't have money to play with, he needs quality work with the best deal he can get and wants to make sure he's getting it. Maybe he IS getting it from Davis, but he wants to feel comfortable knowing that. I'll be doing the same in a couple of months when it's timing belt/water pump time... though I know who will probably do the work, I'll be calling around for pricing even if it means taking a drive to visit the parents in Florida and detouring on the way to visit the Barnman.
 
btw ken, i definitely dont feel hostile toward everyone in the world :). just certain aspects of our united states government's legislative and judiciary arms. i have absolutely no opinion on Davis one way or another, so I'm not quite sure how you got that I was bashing them. I reread my post and didn't see it.
 
In all honesty, that estimate from the first page for the snap ring fix and clutch ($2500 or so) doesn't really sound that bad for a package deal. There has to be an ammount that one could put on peace of mind as well that the job will be done right the first time by a master tech. Taking the engine out of the car (correct me if i'm wrong that you have to take the engine out to get to the tranny) in and of itself looks like a very fair ammount. I don't know why nsxexotic is second guessing these prices. Even $72.00/hr labor is very fair, who do I have to strangle in my area to get that rate?

Sometimes I don't think we as a community stress enough to those that will be taking ownership of a car such as this are aware of how costs can escalate on repairs. One thing I am prepared to do (unfortunately with an equity loan) is plop down a chunk of change if something catastrophic happens to my car in order to maintain it. I knew it going in, and i'm living with that decision for my length of ownership. I don't like what quotes I've gotten from my local dealer, but I'll live with it to maintain the car properly, that's just life.

Not trying to make nsxexotic look bad, but he bought an nsx and he should be willing to pay a little bit more money to maintain his car the right way with the right people.

Just my 2 cents....
 
First of all nsxexotic, you need to calm down. All nsxtasy has tried to do so far is help you out by educating you.

If you had half the brains you imply you have, you would have realized that by now. The tone in your messages gives all of us a hint about the way you are asking questions when interacting with the dealership. One can sense presumption in your posts, kind of "my-tranny-is-broke-and-now-the entire-world-owes-me-for-me-to-fix-it-cheap-and-not-get-screwed-in-the-process-since-I'm-a-3rd-year-college-student-with-no-$$$" way.

Second of all, just realize this simple fact: YOU are the one who needs the help of professionals to get your car repaired, not THEM needing your business. The amount of business Acura dealerships are getting from NSX owners is peanuts in comparison to the other models. Despite this fact, they have to pay top $$$ to keep trained NSX technicians on site and have expensive apparatii to service the NSXs. All that in order to qualify for the dealership. Trust me, that if dealerships could pass on having to work on a mid-engine car that represents peanuts to their business, they would! you're a smart 3rd-year college business student, you should understand that, no ?

Third of all, have you ever given it a shot to guess what people are thinking seeing a young guy driving such a car that can obviously NOT afford it ? You probably don't even care, since you are convinced that #1: YOU paid for this car and #2: they DESERVE your business. Let me share with you a little secret: No-one owes you anything. If you don't like the prices, the service, or even the answers to your questions, then what don't you fix your car yourself ? Nobody says to get screwed while getting it fixed, but you asked your question, and you were told (repetitively) that THIS is the price to fix it. Now get it done and quit whining about what does this costs, and what does that costs.

Not only you have displayed extreme lack of courtesy towards members of this forums who HAVE actually contributed to the community, you obviously have also proven to the entire board that you need to take that Respect101 class all over again.
 
robr said:
They all use the "book rate" excuse for labor, and *THAT* is a swindle... so what if they all do it, doesn't make it right

Although I agree to an extend with you, what should the dealership do then you bring your car to them, the book says it should be done in 2 hours and after 2 hours later the poor mechanic is still trying to fix your problem due to unexpected complications that might even be caused by a home mechanic ? We all know you are only going to pay for 2 hours, even if in this case it may have taken twice as long and broke things that he replaced for free. Some jobs require less than the book says, some require more. All the book does is provide an estimate on the labor involved to quote a reasonable and fair price to the customer. The goal for the dealership is to break even at the end of the month...
 
dnyhof said:
Sometimes I don't think we as a community stress enough to those that will be taking ownership of a car such as this are aware of how costs can escalate on repairs. One thing I am prepared to do (unfortunately with an equity loan) is plop down a chunk of change if something catastrophic happens to my car in order to maintain it. I knew it going in, and i'm living with that decision for my length of ownership. I don't like what quotes I've gotten from my local dealer, but I'll live with it to maintain the car properly, that's just life.

No my friend, this is RESPONSIBILITY, of which you appear to have plenty and I admire people like you who are taking responsibility of their acts and are ready to assume the consequences of their actions. People like you become unfortunately rare and scarce.
 
apapada said:
First of all nsxexotic, you need to calm down. All nsxtasy has tried to do so far is help you out by educating you.

If you had half the brains you imply you have, you would have realized that by now. The tone in your messages gives all of us a hint about the way you are asking questions when interacting with the dealership. One can sense presumption in your posts, kind of "my-tranny-is-broke-and-now-the entire-world-owes-me-for-me-to-fix-it-cheap-and-not-get-screwed-in-the-process-since-I'm-a-3rd-year-college-student-with-no-$$$" way.

Second of all, just realize this simple fact: YOU are the one who needs the help of professionals to get your car repaired, not THEM needing your business. The amount of business Acura dealerships are getting from NSX owners is peanuts in comparison to the other models. Despite this fact, they have to pay top $$$ to keep trained NSX technicians on site and have expensive apparatii to service the NSXs. All that in order to qualify for the dealership. Trust me, that if dealerships could pass on having to work on a mid-engine car that represents peanuts to their business, they would! you're a smart 3rd-year college business student, you should understand that, no ?

Third of all, have you ever given it a shot to guess what people are thinking seeing a young guy driving such a car that can obviously NOT afford it ? You probably don't even care, since you are convinced that #1: YOU paid for this car and #2: they DESERVE your business. Let me share with you a little secret: No-one owes you anything. If you don't like the prices, the service, or even the answers to your questions, then what don't you fix your car yourself ? Nobody says to get screwed while getting it fixed, but you asked your question, and you were told (repetitively) that THIS is the price to fix it. Now get it done and quit whining about what does this costs, and what does that costs.

Not only you have displayed extreme lack of courtesy towards members of this forums who HAVE actually contributed to the community, you obviously have also proven to the entire board that you need to take that Respect101 class all over again.

Wow, tell us what you really feel.;)
 
what should be done? it's very simple and it's the way I work when I'm doing consulting work..... you pay for the hours that are worked. if "The Book" says four and it takes two, you pay for two, if the books says four and it takes eight, you pay eight. that's assuming the mechanic is working on your car the whole time. most mechanics are working on multiple vehicles, if they stop working on mine because there is priority on another one, don't charge me for the time not spent on mine.

this is why i typically shop around for smaller shops with knowledgeable, anal mechanics and proprieters (ken is right that I have a good one in the area, but I found them on my own, built up a relationship with the shop (guys who left an Acura dealership to start their own business) who admitted they didn't really get any NSX work by starting out with small things... oil changes, working my way up to valve adjustment and clutch, and now the owner has an NSX too.

i realize i cant be quoted exact times and dollar estimates, but if they say it likely will cost say $500 but it could run into more depending on what they find, then I know and I'll have them call me the moment they run into something that will take me close to a set limit (say $600).

I was actually incredulous recently when the alternator on my Saab 9000 died. I found a nearby Saab specialist I had never dealt with. Told him I needed a rebuilt alternator, thermostat and oil change. I expected a bill of near $300-350 after researching that a rebuilt alternator was around $200. My mouth hit the floor when the bill was $128 (they replaced the voltage regulator), and I still have never met anyone at the shop (AAA towed it in, I paid over the phone via CC and picked it up after they were closed). I'll be going back there again and again, perhaps with other vehicles as well. if I took that same car to a dealership, they probably would have wanted to replace the alternator with a new OEM one and go by "The Book". It likely would have cost me 10x what it did.

anyway, that's my #1 gripe with service depts at dealerships. being charged by "The Book" is a scam, and being charged hours when nobody is working on my car. I have lots more complaints but I'll save those for another day :).
 
apapada said:
The goal for the dealership is to break even at the end of the month...

No, the goal is to make a profit and satisfy the customer so they are willing to come back, if they should need service again, and hopefully refer other customers.;)
 
Back
Top