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The Negatives of the NSX 2.0
- Thread starter liftcontrol
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I like the way the new car looks. It is certainly unique. The performance is not in doubt. I lease a RLX Sport Hybrid as my daily driver and for a 4400 pound car the performance is quite impressive. One of our owners at Acurazine has timed 0-60 at 4.9 seconds. Handling in the turns is remarkably neutral until you push it to about 7/10, when there is the start of understeer to keep ordinary drivers in check. I changed up the look with some tasteful wheels and it makes the car look that much better.
I mention all this because from the description of these initial press reviews, they make the 2G NSX sound a lot like the RLX, but with more power and two fewer seats.
I sure wish I had twin turbos and a drivetrain switched the other way in my RLX! However, performance as it is, is more than adequate.
In short, if you can't afford a new NSX, try the RLX despite the styling (and if you can find one--Acura shipped very few Sport Hybrids in, you have to accept the "stealth wealth" look to it, and frankly the price is high for what you get).
I mention all this because from the description of these initial press reviews, they make the 2G NSX sound a lot like the RLX, but with more power and two fewer seats.
I sure wish I had twin turbos and a drivetrain switched the other way in my RLX! However, performance as it is, is more than adequate.
In short, if you can't afford a new NSX, try the RLX despite the styling (and if you can find one--Acura shipped very few Sport Hybrids in, you have to accept the "stealth wealth" look to it, and frankly the price is high for what you get).
I would agree with you. But the reality is that it isn't the first sports car Honda made. So comparisons are unavoidable, especially since both cars share the same name. One of the NSX's features was its relatively light weight due to all the Aluminum construction. The new one sort of tossed that feature out the window at 3800 lbs. At that weight I may as well get a GT-R. Too bad I just don't like how that car looks at all. Throw my fat-ish butt in the car and you are now at 2 tons without a passenger. :redface:
I have no doubt the car will hold its own, my main concern stands at will all the extra tech stand the test of time reliability wise. Honda has a fairly good track record, but since this is a new platform, I would prefer to make sure first. The test mule did burn to the ground at the ring after all and that was only a year or so ago. Also I tend to hang on to the things I own for a long time or until they are beyond repair. So I like the things I have to last, and want to minimize the headaches. I don't get bored and am not as concerned about numbers compared to other brands, or when someone I meet says his x has y hp, or having the latest and greatest. Heck I still have a flip phone and it's still works just fine. :biggrin: Trust me when I say that my daily driver is either my Fit or my CRV, so when I jump in the NSX on the weekends, compared to those, it's like jumping into my own rocket ship. Everything and everyone else's thoughts don't bother me. That probably has a lot to do with why I never did go the SC or Turbo route even though I did consider it greatly early on. :smile: (my wallet thanks me)
If I get the new NSX down the road, and considering how I hang on to things, not to sound morbid but I will probably be dead before I sell it. (unless the figure out immortality or cloning by then) So I want to make sure I enjoy it as opposed to enjoy it sitting in a shop because one of the electric motors went poof or the battery burned up. I have had my current NSX for 16 happy and trouble free years now and wouldn't give it up. Even after winter storage, I can confidently get in and go for a drive. Someone offered me $38K cash for it about a month ago, not sure if he was serious but I smiled and said no thanks. Oh and my car is an AT and he knew that, it is not a desired model by any means and I have been ribbed by other NSX folks about it in fun, (at least I hope you guys were kidding!....if not....you bastards! :tongue
but it is a little more rare as far as production numbers go.Oh and my car is an AT and he knew that, it is not a desired model by any means and I have been ribbed by other NSX folks about it in fun, (at least I hope you guys were kidding!....if not....you bastards! :tongue
Lol, great post and you are a brave [and pathologically honest:biggrin:] man to make public your ownership of an AT first gen NSX!!
Good for you:wink:
fastaussie
Suspended
i have heard statements similar to this, so it will be interesting to see how it performs in actual instrumented testing, in final production form. whenever that is...
and I posted this reply...
I think you are incorrect in assuming that all three motors will be asked to output at 100% at the same time the engine is at it's peak output. You won't ever peak at 619...but you'll get a lot of torque all over the place. The motors are doing torque fill, helping reduce torque loss during shifts, yaw control, dragging on the engine to recharge batteries, etc. They key word I've read in several reviews is that the car, despite having turbos and blended regenerative braking, is LINEAR...which sounds really great with this kind of horsepower and the nature of electric-motor torque.
I think you're missing my point in that at above 124mph, the car is essentially either a 454hp or 500hp car with no assist from the motors.
The motor is 500hp, but yes very little help from the bats at those speeds.
"Disengaged" means zero help, not "very little"
Still looking forward to more info on the technical side of the car and real world performance.
Let me try to bring this thread back to some practicality pros/cons.
Electric Vehicles are simply awesome fun from 0-55mph. They run out of steam past that.
Forced Inducted cars are amazing once in boost.
Put the 2 together and seems like a win-win to me.
Keep in mind the GTR R35 is 3800-3900lbs as well.
Electric Vehicles are simply awesome fun from 0-55mph. They run out of steam past that.
Forced Inducted cars are amazing once in boost.
Put the 2 together and seems like a win-win to me.
Keep in mind the GTR R35 is 3800-3900lbs as well.
"Disengaged" means zero help, not "very little"
Still looking forward to more info on the technical side of the car and real world performance.
I'm just saying what they told me.
Do they not provide any drag or regen during braking or turning above that speed either?
No clue, but while improving cornering balance, torque vectoring drag and brake regen isn't contributing to acceleration.
Journalists often get things wrong so well just have to stay tuned to learn more of how everything actually works.
Journalists often get things wrong so well just have to stay tuned to learn more of how everything actually works.
fastaussie
Suspended
several of my mates have driven this car now, on several different occasions and in varying conditions. some at the very restricted recent pre-press release or whatever the hell that was at Sonoma Raceway, and some even before that. the negatives of the car for me thus far, is that none of them were at all impressed with it...
Do you know if they drove it in Track mode with the Pilot Sport Cup 2s?
That seems to be a significant fact from what I've read from more than one source.
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There is no conventional multi-gear transmission to optimize and transmit the power for top speed. E-motors operate off of one speed essentially. Also they do not have long winding peak horsepower like conventional combustion engines. The power comes at the low end spectrum/low revs.
The engine may make xxx HP at 7,000 rpm but the emotors run of steam much earlier than that. Take a look EV dyno for instance:
This is why it's also difficult to properly quote combined peak HP for hybrid vehicles.
I believe the rear motor in the new NSX is before the transmission.
Electric motors generally lose torque as speed increases because of back-EMF, which increasingly opposes the driving voltage as speed increases.
That would be a first for hybrids and EV vehicles alike in the case of a emotor being linked to a transmission for power delivery to the wheels. They would have mentioned it as strong highlight for the new NSX.
"Layout[:] Direct drive situated between engine & transmission; Crankshaft output shaft-attached permanent magnet rotor & in-engine body-copper windings"
See http://nsx.acura.com/specs
I'm willing to bet it's still one speed via it's own spline/driveshaft and the wording is there to describe the unique and compact packaging. The tranny is only linked to the ICE. It would have made headlines for being the first Emotor with a 9 speed tranny.
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The "Direct Drive" being the dead give away.
Are you sure that it is not yet another implementation that is similar to IMA?
Except that instead of been an e-motor/flywheel assembly that mates with a traditional clutch it is a separate piece since the DCT has it's own internal components.
If that is the case the power would be delivered on the same driveshaft that ends up going to the DCT.
IMA has been there since day 1 with Honda Hybrids starting with the Insight a while back.
Thanks. I didn't know of the IMA trademark but that does appear to be exactly how the rear motor is used in the NSX. I'm not sure why one would read the published specs as proposing anything different. It also appears to be how the P1 and 918 integrate the rear motor? I guess it's certainly possible for a motor to tie into the output shaft regardless of where it enters the transmission, but that doesn't appear to be the case with the NSX or IMA.
New NSX:
Insight IMA:
jwmelvin is exactly right. When a motor spins, it is a magnet spinning inside a coil of wires. You know what that is? A generator! Or an alternator. And the generator effect is working against the power your are putting into the motor. This is how the motor settles at a particular RPM--the "back EMF" which is the voltage coming from the generator effect increases as the rpm increases until it balances the incoming voltage. The motor then settles at that RPM. Increase the input voltage and the motor speeds up until the back-EMF balances it again. Add load on the motor, like driving a car, and it slows the motor down, which decreases back EMF, which lets more power go into the motor. It will slow until the incoming power is enough to take the load and balance with the back EMF again.
Because of this, the motor when it is running unloaded is making only enough output torque to overcome the friction of spinning. Nearly all the input is canceled by the back EMF, so you have almost no torque. Put a big brake on the shaft and stop the motor and suddenly you have no back EMF at all. The incoming current is basically a short circuit running through the winding and the maximum torque is generated. It will probably trip a circuit breaker too.
This behavior is obviously tweaked dynamically by the computers that run the motor controller, so what you see on the dyno is the result of software adjusting things to get the behavior the engineers want.
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