This is truly the most disturbing thing I have ever heard

[huckster]

i think wholesale discounting of religion(s) based upon the actions/interpretations of a few is a little narrow minded.

Every religion is to some degree of cross section of humanity, and sometimes inhumanity. There are plenty of good people in every religion, and then there are those who take the teachings and twist them around into evil.

 

[Accomplice]

i think wholesale discounting of religion(s) based upon the actions/interpretations of a few is a little narrow minded.

Every religion is to some degree of cross section of humanity, and sometimes inhumanity. There are plenty of good people in every religion, and then there are those who take the teachings and twist them around into evil.

I agree on all counts. The decent people who happen to be Muslim suffer the most when somebody kills in the name of Islam.

 

[Accomplice]

As I mentioned before, the only relation between Islamic teachings and pork, is that we don't eat it, anything else is crap.

When a Muslim gets berried with blood he doesn't go to heaven!? What I hear this it reminds me of superman and kryptonite, but that's a comic book this is real life. You can't hurt a dead person or change his destiny by what you do to him after his death.


So no this is nonsense.

I don't personally think that your fate can be dictated by which cold cuts you may take to the grave. Its widely believed that there may be some out there that do.

 

[Accomplice]

By the way, my father is having a good friend of his over for dinner today. He is American. It's kind of funny, because I could have sworn that I didn't see my father sharpen any butcher knives or ready some plastic explosives for our guest tonight. But, oh well, I guess we must be a glitch in the Islam system.

You seem like a nice person and one who follows the true intensions of Islam. I wish all Muslims were more like you.

 

[Accomplice]

You said it yourself; you heard all this virgin bull@#$hit from the terrorists themselves.

Now a logical question, if these terrorists represent Islam and KSA, then why is the KSA government's working day and night to capture them? And why are these terrorists bombing Muslim civilian people here in KSA. We had a huge explosion three weeks ago and it was at a traffic control center with a lot of civilians getting killed and of course they were all Muslims. So by your logic, the Islamic religion teaches Muslims to kill Muslims?!

The terrorists do not represent the govt. of KSA. They feel that the govt. there is not conservative enough. They don't represent Islam either though it is central to their what they claim is their motivation. The govt. can only progress into modern times at a pace that conservative Muslims will allow. UBL's cronies have stated in the past that they regret that some Muslims die in their attacks. They seemed to deem it an unfortunate but unavoidable side effect of their tactics. I can't say that it was Islam that taught them to hate certain peoples so strongly that they're willing to take Muslim casualties in an effort to kill their enemies.

 

[Accomplice]

There must be something wrong here, don't you think?

Absolutely. But hopefully we can get it squashed.

 

[Accomplice]

So for all this, I still stand to my word. Don't associate the Islamic religion to the evil that has been done falsely under its name.

Turn off your TV set, put down your news paper and go grab a short good book on Islam and read it! That's called a reliable source unlike the Media.

Well, one has to take the good with the bad to have a full understanding of Islam. I can come to the conclusion that the main teachings are just, valuable and peaceful but when I put the books down I still have to live in a world under threat by some its followers. That is a fact that nobody should forget. I hope that you and other like-minded people will extend your influence as much as possible in that region.

 

[Jimbo]

I guess it doesn't help the situation when the ones responsible for much of the violence call themselves...

Ansar al-Islam or the Supporters of Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Islam

 

[cmhs75]

So alcohol is bad? Why? If you have never tried it yourself how would you know?

This is one of the many reasons I despise most all religions. Most religions are all about control and dictation. Very few allows the individual to think for themselves. If Islam has convinced you that alcohol is bad without you even have so much as sniffed the cap from a beer, what will they convince you of next?
Make your own decisions, think for yourself.

I did, no one can force me not to drink alcohol. It's between me and god. So, if I wanted to drink alcohol nothing would stop me. But I wouldn’t. Not after hearing about how many drunken driving accidents happen and how many drunken fathers beat on their children and wife's and I know that even in the most civilized nations, it's against the law to drink while driving. And drunk people don't have much to be looked up to. So it’s a no brainier that alcohol is a bad thing. I'd despise it even If I wasn't Muslim but being a Muslim I'm happy to have made the right choice earlier in my age.

Smoking is more like not recommended here than being taboo. Most of my relatives smoke. But me, I don't even allow anyone to smoke near me let alone do it myself. I don't need anyone to tell me what's wrong and whets right, it's just that having a religion gives you more of a reason to take the right root

And if I have to go out and try everything before I get convinced that it's bad, doesn't that mean that I might as well try child molestation?

 

[steveny]

I did, no one can force me not to drink alcohol. It's between me and god. So, if I wanted to drink alcohol nothing would stop me. But I wouldn’t. Not after hearing about how many drunken driving accidents happen and how many drunken fathers beat on their children and wife's and I know that even in the most civilized nations, it's against the law to drink while driving. And drunk people don't have much to be looked up to. So it’s a no brainier that alcohol is a bad thing. I'd despise it even If I wasn't Muslim but being a Muslim I'm happy to have made the right choice earlier in my age.

Smoking is more like not recommended here than being taboo. Most of my relatives smoke. But me, I don't even allow anyone to smoke near me let alone do it myself. I don't need anyone to tell me what's wrong and whets right, it's just that having a religion gives you more of a reason to take the right root

And if I have to go out and try everything before I get convinced that it's bad, doesn't that mean that I might as well try child molestation?

Seems like you take it to the extreme. I would surmise from your statement, everyone who drinks is an alcoholic or a menace behind the wheel drunk all the time. Ridiculous, some people enjoy a glass of wine with their meal. If a religion dictates what one should do or not do, it closes ones mind.

 

[Accomplice]

I did, no one can force me not to drink alcohol. It's between me and god.

Its actually just between you and your bartender.

 

[nkb]

MEMRI Special Dispatch Number 12 reports of Saudi textbooks, "A textbook for 8th grade students explains why Jews and Christians were cursed by Allah and turned into apes and pigs."

A lot of religions (or subsets of religions) have delusions of grandeur. Everyone assumes whatever religion they follow is the only true one, and can't understand how all the other people can be so misled.
For example, Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only ones that will go to heaven, everyone else will rot in hell. Baptists feel that they need to go on missions to straighten out those poor ignorant 3rd-world people who have strayed from the only true path. The list is endless.

Islam is not alone in that respect.

 

[nkb]

As I mentioned before, the only relation between Islamic teachings and pork, is that we don't eat it, anything else is crap.

When a Muslim gets berried with blood he doesn't go to heaven!? What I hear this it reminds me of superman and kryptonite, but that's a comic book this is real life. You can't hurt a dead person or change his destiny by what you do to him after his death.

So no this is nonsense.

Exactly as I thought, thanks for verifying that, cmhs75.
Accomplice, it's amazing what a BS meter can pick up, if you just use common sense.

 

[nkb]

I guess it doesn't help the situation when the ones responsible for much of the violence call themselves...

Ansar al-Islam or the Supporters of Islam

Same way the KKK calls themselves the defenders of the white race?

If someone went on a killing spree, and said he was doing it in the name of all the NSX owners out there, should everyone condemn NSX owners as murderous thugs, or, at best, supporters of murderous thugs? Or should we realize that the guy is a certifiable nut, and the reasons he gives for his crimes mean absolutely nothing?

 

[nkb]

You aren't capable of seeing that the first definition they gave is closer to the neutral use/ definition that I mentioned about the word? The definition they gave proves my point. In fact your narrow view of the word's usage (its negative use) is SECONDARY to my description of one possible use.

The first definition is also negative, albeit not as negative as the other ones. Here is the definition for "preconceived":

: to form (as an opinion) prior to actual knowledge or experience <preconceived notions>

Either way, prejudice is defined as judging someone or something, without having enough information to base that judgement on.

I'm not sure how you read definitions in dictionaries, but they aren't ranked like a top ten list, with the "best" one first. The first ones are generally a more broad definition, followed by more specific definitions. They are all valid, and may apply in different situations.

In this case, the last definition happens to apply directly to this discussion, so I believe it is very accurate in this context.

 

[nkb]

Hey, we actually agree on something!

You're not real clear on the concept of sarcasm, are you? Do you need me to look that one up for you as well?

 

[nkb]

I suspect that a lot of people who watch the news and follow current events have a bit more information than you appear to have.

OK, now that we've established that you have no more insight into the situation than anyone else here, is it possible that I have just as much information as you, but I have drawn a different conclusion?

I see the same images on TV, and read the same stories, yet I always use a critical eye when digesting what the media throws at us. I try to do some additional research, use some personal experience, and use some common sense to come up with an opinion.

My opinion happens to be that, although a significant part of the Arab population dislikes the USA (in large part due to our repeated botched foreign policy in the region), 90% of Muslims are NOT supporting the guys who are flying planes into buildings and beheading people. In fact, I think a large majority of Muslims thinks it's disgraceful to murder people in the name of Allah.

But, as cmhs75 mentioned, a lot of Arabs feel that we have brought this on ourselves. You may not agree with their opinions, but to lump them into a group with the terrorists based on that I think is misguided.

I have news for you. It's not only Arabs that dislike the US. We have the reputation of a bully around the world, and nobody likes a bully. Whether that reputation is warranted can be argued, but it exists nonetheless.

What's the grand solution? I don't know. The current situation is a big pot of steaming shit, and I don't pretend to know how to get out of it (although I do know killing millions of innocent people is not the way).

 

[Jimbo]

And a lot of Islam hates us because...

1. We support Israel.

2. We have troops in Saudi Arabia.

3. Of our culture and beliefs.

4. Disdain for modernity http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1679397.stm

 

[Spencer]

If someone went on a killing spree, and said he was doing it in the name of all the NSX owners out there, should everyone condemn NSX owners as murderous thugs, or, at best, supporters of murderous thugs?

Well, if all of us NSX owners happened to live in a town where the majority of our fellow NSX owners supported the killing spree, and if our NSX club supported schools throughout the world spreading the word that all non-NSX owners were something less than lower life forms, and if a terrorist event killing over 3,000 people on U.S. soil was accomplished virtually exclusively by NSX-owners…THEN I GUESS I'D HAVE TO SAY, WELL, MAYBE WE ARE A BUNCH OF MURDEROUS THUGS! One other thing IS for sure, though…I wouldn't exactly be surprised if a sane person thought that way.

 

[Accomplice]

The first definition is also negative, albeit not as negative as the other ones. Here is the definition for "preconceived":

: to form (as an opinion) prior to actual knowledge or experience <preconceived notions>

Either way, prejudice is defined as judging someone or something, without having enough information to base that judgement on.

I'm not sure how you read definitions in dictionaries, but they aren't ranked like a top ten list, with the "best" one first. The first ones are generally a more broad definition, followed by more specific definitions. They are all valid, and may apply in different situations.

In this case, the last definition happens to apply directly to this discussion, so I believe it is very accurate in this context.

The first definition isn't negative. The pre-judgment arrived at is potentially totally accurate. You seem to have pre-judged the word as negative based on your specific exposure to its uses. In the case of your preconceived notion about the word it is inaccurate. You could cut the irony in this thread with a knife.

 

[Accomplice]

You're not real clear on the concept of sarcasm, are you? Do you need me to look that one up for you as well?

Wow. This is getting weird. You actually didn't realize that I also could be employing sarcasm in the post you quoted? The irony abounds.

 

[Accomplice]

OK, now that we've established that you have no more insight into the situation than anyone else here, is it possible that I have just as much information as you, but I have drawn a different conclusion?

I've established (with your help) that I have a far more insight than you do that is for sure. But it doesn't matter. I respect and support your right to draw and voice whatever conclusions you may arrive at no matter how contrary to my view they may be.

 

[cmhs75]

Seems like you take it to the extreme. I would surmise from your statement, everyone who drinks is an alcoholic or a menace behind the wheel drunk all the time. Ridiculous, some people enjoy a glass of wine with their meal. If a religion dictates what one should do or not do, it closes ones mind.

Is it legal in the USA to pull over and grab one can of "Barbican" and drink it and then jump back into your car and drive?

And here is another reasoning that would suggest that you shouldn’t drink:

Good side of drinking: It's an overwhelming pleasure (and so are drugs)

Bad side: it will be absolutely unavoidable that at least roughly 10% of the population will be drunken menses that will cause drunken accidents and drunken molestations and drunken assaults.


By this reasoning, some will say that the bad side outweighs the good and by other's no. It's everyone with their opinion. Min is that a mind is a beautiful thing, so why filter it out with alcohol?

 

[Accomplice]

My opinion happens to be that, although a significant part of the Arab population dislikes the USA (in large part due to our repeated botched foreign policy in the region), 90% of Muslims are NOT supporting the guys who are flying planes into buildings and beheading people. In fact, I think a large majority of Muslims thinks it's disgraceful to murder people in the name of Allah.

But, as cmhs75 mentioned, a lot of Arabs feel that we have brought this on ourselves. You may not agree with their opinions, but to lump them into a group with the terrorists based on that I think is misguided.

I have news for you. It's not only Arabs that dislike the US. We have the reputation of a bully around the world, and nobody likes a bully. Whether that reputation is warranted can be argued, but it exists nonetheless.

What's the grand solution? I don't know. The current situation is a big pot of steaming shit, and I don't pretend to know how to get out of it (although I do know killing millions of innocent people is not the way).

Here is my take on it. If some hate group from the US like the KKK was sending people oversees to kill innocent foreigners in the name of anything I cared about (The US as an example), which in turn made all Americans look bad, you and everybody else would be trying to find them and bring them to justice. Not saying "well we don't support them but we'll just ignore that it’s happening because you brought it on yourselves." These terrorists stay some place, pray some place, work somewhere, eat some place and interact with lots of people. Those people become aware of their radical views and do nothing, or worse agree with them and render aid to them. That wouldn't happen here. The first time one of the KKK guys mumbled something in Denny's about being connected to those types of crimes or intent to commit those types of crimes he'd get his ass beat. We wouldn't yell "God is Great, Preach it Brother!" and offer to give him a ride to the airport.

 

[cmhs75]

OK I finally found it. I've been looking for it for ever so here it is

You must read and please notice the dates of each publication!!

by the way, the 'AL-SHeikh" dude there is the religious leader here in Saudi Arabia so he repreasents KSA. ( NOTE: KSA not Islam, Islam is still represented by a book)


http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm




And I also checked with my friends from all over KSA, especially were they are most radical about these things (namely Riyadh and Khassim) none of them saw any celebrations about the event. Sure, a very few minority were actually happy about it, what do you expect from all the anger fuelling them for over five decades regarding Israel.

And, I was around when the event happened. I can tell you that all the donation cans that were placed in commercial stores were pulled out until the governed investigated if any of them were financing terrorism. I'll even take pictures with my digital camera right now if you don’t believe me.

So:

No KSA did not support terrorism
No the people of KSA did not fund the terrorism act (at least by majority speaking)

No the people of KSA were not happy about the 911 incident or any other terrorist incident carried out.




I even asked my friends about this FOX channel you were refereeing to and guess what they said. It's a biased propaganda Channel, the same as our humble and stupid Al-Jazzera channel over here.

So please, Accomplice, be mature enough to tell if you are being led to believe untrue things that were purposely made to look bad by greedy money grabbing soulless media who would love to see the world go up in flames so long as they get a huge paycheck at the end of the month.