Trouble with Prospeed RDX and ECU upgrade

[sophis]

Thank you for the info here everyone! I had the Prospeed Injectors and Stage 3 tune installed by Brian almost a year ago, and have been experiencing an erratic/poor idle since they were installed. I reported this to Brian the following day and have been trying to get it fixed ever since.

Summed up, if I start my car after it has already warmed up, my car would cycle between 100-900 rpms for around 10-15 seconds and then finally catch and idle normally at 800 rpms. When I start the car cold, it idles perfectly. Before the injectors/stage 3 tune was installed, my car always idled perfectly without any issues.

Are there any recommendations in socal/Tustin/Irvine area for someone to check/resolder the ZIF socket?

 

[Prospeed]

Sorry about this guys. I've done over 50 NSX ecu's with no soldering issues as well as hundred's of other honda ecu's over the past decade. I've actually just replaced my equipment as it wasn't getting hot enough anymore to properly remove the solder without pulling the tracks. I'm not on here much so it's been hard for me to get on and give you the very best service I can with school and work full time on both but i'm doing my best... PM me if anyone has issues with it and I can check and resolder the sockets. I have also upgraded the zif sockets that will help improve contact as well. Thanks for all of your understanding guys!

 

[liftnot]

I had Brian installed mine two years ago and I have zero issues to report except its a great mod. Have taken long trips to Canada, a few club drives here and there, a half day dyno session, and driving around locally.

In general, the nature of doing modifications on cars is that you can never be sure of the results(reliability, longevity, consistency, design flaws..etc) unless you spend time to test and re-test like OEM does and make improvements then the mod will cost you an arm and a leg. This is part of R&D and every vendor has limitation of their resources, timing to market and skill level. Brian is doing what he can. I am just happy we have people like Luc and Brian making this mod for us but I certainly don't expect a MTBF report from them.

with this learning experience, it will make this mod even better.

 

[scammy]

^^^what he said, mines been in for a year no issues i would like to alter it a bit but thats me not Brian, bit like the car really its good but i just want to alter it a bit.........

 

[neonshaun]

Thank you for the info here everyone! I had the Prospeed Injectors and Stage 3 tune installed by Brian almost a year ago, and have been experiencing an erratic/poor idle since they were installed. I reported this to Brian the following day and have been trying to get it fixed ever since.

Summed up, if I start my car after it has already warmed up, my car would cycle between 100-900 rpms for around 10-15 seconds and then finally catch and idle normally at 800 rpms. When I start the car cold, it idles perfectly. Before the injectors/stage 3 tune was installed, my car always idled perfectly without any issues.

Are there any recommendations in socal/Tustin/Irvine area for someone to check/resolder the ZIF socket?

This is the exact same issue I had. To save you some reading, this is what I tried:

Re-soldered main relay
re-soldered zif socket
re-installed injectors to make sure I did it right
replaced all vac lines to the engine
replaced air filter
cleaned throttle body

gave up and reverted to stock.

If you figure out how to fix it, post it here so I can also try. haha. My next step would have been to replace the fuel filter, then check the fuel pump...

 

[liftnot]

worth the try

This is the exact same issue I had. To save you some reading, this is what I tried:

Re-soldered main relay
re-soldered zif socket
re-installed injectors to make sure I did it right
replaced all vac lines to the engine
replaced air filter
cleaned throttle body

gave up and reverted to stock.

If you figure out how to fix it, post it here so I can also try. haha. My next step would have been to replace the fuel filter, then check the fuel pump...

since sr5guy has more experience with soldering and has the right set up. I would consult him. even though Brian bought new equipment, he may not have the time but you can ask. AFAIK, the soldering of the zif socket is a critical step that has more chance to go wrong. Injector installation/wiring is pnp.

 

[neonshaun]

This is the exact same issue I had. To save you some reading, this is what I tried:

Re-soldered main relay
re-soldered zif socket
re-installed injectors to make sure I did it right
replaced all vac lines to the engine
replaced air filter
cleaned throttle body

gave up and reverted to stock.

If you figure out how to fix it, post it here so I can also try. haha. My next step would have been to replace the fuel filter, then check the fuel pump...

I just pulled my air temp sensor (http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/159564-Is-your-NSX-failing-smog-Read-this) and it was pretty gunky. Maybe that being dirty was screwing up the fuel mix when warm? It took me 5 mins to clean, so maybe it's worth a try...

 

[sr5guy]

Thank you for the info here everyone! I had the Prospeed Injectors and Stage 3 tune installed by Brian almost a year ago, and have been experiencing an erratic/poor idle since they were installed. I reported this to Brian the following day and have been trying to get it fixed ever since.

Summed up, if I start my car after it has already warmed up, my car would cycle between 100-900 rpms for around 10-15 seconds and then finally catch and idle normally at 800 rpms. When I start the car cold, it idles perfectly. Before the injectors/stage 3 tune was installed, my car always idled perfectly without any issues.

Are there any recommendations in socal/Tustin/Irvine area for someone to check/resolder the ZIF socket?

If you had an issue with the ZIF socket the check engine light would come on solid at startup and stay on with a 4000 RPM rev limiter.

The issue you are having is a small negative to the RDX upgrade, specifically with adjusting the injector dead time. Not all cars have it. Brian and myself are working on a solution for this issue and I'm sure he would provide you with an update when it's done. Unfortunately with Brian's school and myself just having a newborn free time has been very limited. Decoding the stock ECU is an incredible tedious adventure. I can assure you that - other than the inconvenience of the idle issue - no harm is being done.

since sr5guy has more experience with soldering and has the right set up. I would consult him. even though Brian bought new equipment, he may not have the time but you can ask. AFAIK, the soldering of the zif socket is a critical step that has more chance to go wrong. Injector installation/wiring is pnp.

While I appreciate the offer, I don't wish to step on anyone's toes. I am sure Brian is more than adequately qualified to make the repairs. I am more than happy to offer advice and assist if Brian requests. The issue with the OP's ECU was intermittent and unfortunately when he sent it in, it was not acting up. While it was not the best soldering job I've seen everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure Brian won't let it happen again!

Thanks,
Matt

 

[NSXcitement]

I thought a long time about responding to this thread, and finally decided I would. I recently retired after 30 years working in procurement QA for a large defense contractor. I primarily worked avionics and since my job involved auditing and inspection of our suppliers, I took many soldering and ESD prevention courses during my career. For several years, I was certified soldering instructor (Mil-Std-2000A Cat C) and having the right equipment is necessary, but there is much more to it than that. I believe anyone supplying product that requires soldering should have some form of training. And anyone handling devices that are ESD sensitive should have ESD training, as well. Here are a couple of sources.

http://www.omnitraining.com/

http://www.ipctraining.org/handsoldering/

 

[gt_nfr]

Thank you for the info here everyone! I had the Prospeed Injectors and Stage 3 tune installed by Brian almost a year ago, and have been experiencing an erratic/poor idle since they were installed. I reported this to Brian the following day and have been trying to get it fixed ever since.

Summed up, if I start my car after it has already warmed up, my car would cycle between 100-900 rpms for around 10-15 seconds and then finally catch and idle normally at 800 rpms. When I start the car cold, it idles perfectly. Before the injectors/stage 3 tune was installed, my car always idled perfectly without any issues.

Are there any recommendations in socal/Tustin/Irvine area for someone to check/resolder the ZIF socket?

I have this exact issue, anyone else experience this? Mine is a '93

 

[neonshaun]

The issue you are having is a small negative to the RDX upgrade, specifically with adjusting the injector dead time. Not all cars have it. Brian and myself are working on a solution for this issue and I'm sure he would provide you with an update when it's done. Unfortunately with Brian's school and myself just having a newborn free time has been very limited. Decoding the stock ECU is an incredible tedious adventure. I can assure you that - other than the inconvenience of the idle issue - no harm is being done.

Anyone (brian or matt) made any progress with this 'injector dead time' stuff?

 

[Albert86]

I thought I would add my quick two cents to this discussion.
I purchased my kit with a second ECU from MugenNA1 who had recently became NSX-less due to an "incident".
My kit was complete with second chipped ECU, brand new unopened injectors, extension wires and top hats - only had to make rail spacers myself.
This was my first "wrench" on my car so was a bit nervous but got tired of looking at parts and went for it.
It took a couple of days - I removed my fuel lines and needed to get new crush washers.
Started the car and let it learn - took it for a drive and definitely noticed midrange had changed.
Got a check engine light almost right away. Shutting down and re-starting cleared it, but it would also come back.
I was seeing some idle misbehavior - sometimes a little high or moving about.
I also experienced maybe 500 to 1200 idle seeking when the car was really warm - when jammed up on the freeway sitting idling.
Thinking I should swap the ECU around I finally pulled the ODB code as a last resort (why not first ... I don't know) and saw a 12.
12 is the code for EGR valve - read up a bit and found where it was and and at that moment said .....
I had removed the EGR plug during the install - reseated it about 75% of the way but not all the way.
I reseated the plug and ... ta ta - everything back to normal - no check engine - no idle issues.
I am only posting this as food for thought for others that may be having ECU / socket issues.
I saw some other people having this symptom and maybe it is possible they may have a repairable issue with the ECU
and EGR circuitry - just a thought and good luck.

 

[1stwife]

Anymore updates? The gains look very tempting to do this mod. Seems like a few people been having some issues and have yet to see if it's been solved. My biggest concern is how reliable is this mod? Don't want t be stuck in the middle of nowhere especially during mountain runs or long road trips..

 

[Blackhorse06]

1stwife,

Since I was able to correct (with much help) the chip soldering issue, I have not experienced any issues since. I have not been able to dyno the car yet so I cannot give you any real specifics on total gains at this point. I have been happy with this mod and would recommend it. My only caution is if you experience any issues check the ECU chip soldering before you go and tear everything apart and start buying parts to throw at the problem. Another caution is that Brian can be hard to get a hold at times.

 

[mr envy]

glad you eventually got it sorted.

 

[1stwife]

Thanks for the update. Glad everything worked out for you. Definitely considering this mod during down time..

 

[neonshaun]

My issues were never resolved. I reverted to stock and haven't had any trouble with my car since. My prospeed kit will be for sale soon.

 

[efett]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum and got the ProSpeed tune and injector kit last summer. I was wondering if any of you get a hard start every once and a while. I would say every 15-20 starts I really have to let the car try to start and tap the gas pedal. I had sent it back to Brian and he looked at the tune and said everything was fine. I'm letting the fuel pump prime could my pump be going? I usually hear it but sometimes I don't.

I've been pleased with the tune so far just that little inconvenience.

Thanks

 

[Blackhorse06]

I have on occasion had the car not start up right away. But a second try with a little nudge on the pedal gets things going. I have noticed this when I have run the car for a 10/15 mins and shut it off (waiting to pick my son or in line at the bank) it would get a little finicky. The thing I would ask is are there any light on (TCS CEL) that stay lit after you have tried to or started the car?

 

[efett]

I have on occasion had the car not start up right away. But a second try with a little nudge on the pedal gets things going. I have noticed this when I have run the car for a 10/15 mins and shut it off (waiting to pick my son or in line at the bank) it would get a little finicky. The thing I would ask is are there any light on (TCS CEL) that stay lit after you have tried to or started the car?

No CEL light just a harder start once and a while. Never had it shut off or stall once it was running. Once its running after a hard start the RPMs will flutter 500-900 then hold steady after a few seconds (20-30). would cleaning the Throttle Body be a good route to explore?

 

[neonshaun]

No CEL light just a harder start once and a while. Never had it shut off or stall once it was running. Once its running after a hard start the RPMs will flutter 500-900 then hold steady after a few seconds (20-30). would cleaning the Throttle Body be a good route to explore?

yep, that's what this whole thread is about. I tried:

replaced all engine vac lines
resoldered main relay, no fix
got new air filter, cleaned throttle body, no fix
resoldered chip socket, no fix

I gave up, removed it all, and installed cleaned stock injectors + stock chip + resistor, fixed.

It's something with 'injector dead time' on rdx injectors. I had it where I would start the car, while giving it gas, then I'd go to back out of the parking spot and it would stall as I moved it to first.
I still have my kit sitting in my closet. I should probably sell it already.

 

[docjohn]

to be honest i wonder how many guys who "feel" an improvement in their cars performance after the rdx swap actually would have "felt" the same improvement if they had just sent their stock injectors for a cleaning and bench test like I did.The more guys like Larry B who work on these cars are also seeing the same issue.....clogged injectors after many years.

 

[sr5guy]

Doc, the RDX injectors are nothing new and have been well proven in the performance area. The 12 hole vectored design of the injector (not unique to RDX injectors) leads to better atomization which in turns leads to better efficiency and more power from the engine. The proof is in the dyno's, the car is making more power while the A/F ratio remains just about the same. Also, the cost of buying a new RDX injector (~$45) is only marginally higher than an injector cleaning service.

Again this is not unique to the NSX, I showed a 10hp/12tq gain on the Legend, and the K series tuners have been using them for a performance increase 3 years before they even showed up on the NSX scene.

I am currently setting up a fuel injector testing rig to get the dead time and flow rates of the RDX injectors down to the microsecond. I will share this information with Brian at prospeed once it's in stone.

-Matt

 

[docjohn]

Thanks for the info.

 

[liftnot]

if they had just sent their stock injectors for a cleaning and bench test like I did.

I sent my '93 OEM to RC prior to the RDX mod, only one of them was not flow/spray well. Its been 3 yrs trouble free for me. They do atomize better than OEM. I can definitely felt the improvement right after Brian installed them. Like Nicky Lauda saz in RUSH, that is what the butt is for.