turbo >500whp why???

Big Brown · 11 November 2009

i am thinking about getting a turbo or SOS supercharger for christmas... but i have been doing research on here and noticed i have seen some turbo set-ups with less than 500 hp. WHY?? spend the money and lessen the reliability of the car and go turbo when you could get almost the same amount of power with a SoS supercharger and have a more reliable engine. is getting a "smaller" turbo then upgrading later a smart idea?

if anyone just wants >500whp why not just get a supercharger, its cheaper and easier to maintain.

Stephen@NCAutoUSA · 11 November 2009

I choose going turbo because I always want more later so making more whp later is easier on a turbo than a supercharger. Hence why I should have bought coilovers to begin with because every time I see a set for sale I want to buy them to go lower.

Plus, I want the sound of a bov from a turbo.

Stephen

Cozmo · 11 November 2009

Why is a supercharger easier on the engine than a turbo?

Big Brown · 11 November 2009

Cozmo said:
Why is a supercharger easier on the engine than a turbo?

I just thought that having a supercharger is more reliable when it comes to keeping a somewhat stock engine. I guess i worded it wrong and shouldnt have used the word easier. but in terms of reliability on the motor a supercharger is the way to go.

Cozmo · 11 November 2009

Peak HP is only a small part of it.
Which of these options sounds like the most fun?

The peak HP on the turbo option might only be a bit higher but that huge area in the middle where it is way above the curve of the CTSC is where all the fun comes from. Of course the SOSSC is a lot closer and actually makes more HP in lower RPMs than the turbo in this graph.

I'm getting Angus' turbo on my car, and the total price installed and tuned is at least $2500 LESS than what the SOSSC would cost, including things like gauges and some options that cost extra (so it could be cheaper). Plus I'll have about $1000 worth of parts that get removed from my car that I can sell after it is done.

I'm not trying to say it is the right answer for everyone, but it is certainly an option.

It seems that many people here get the supercharger then get used to it and have nowhere to go from there and end up pulling it off and getting a turbo instead. I just decided to skip that step and go directly for the turbo.

The reason people are "only" running 400hp with a turbo is that you'll blow up your motor if you just crank it up to 500hp.. However it is nice to have the option to just turn up the boost if you choose to build the motor later.

NSX-ST · 11 November 2009

A good example of price comparisons of two currently available kits:

Angus Turbo Kit: $6200 + install + dyno tuning time
Reported dyno #'s using his kit or just his turbocharger (mostly stock engines I believe):
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5.5psi – 397whp<o></o>
6psi – 412whp<o></o>
6.5psi – 422whp
7psi – 458whp
9psi – 472whp (just turbocharger)<o></o>

SOS Supercharger Kit: $10,450 + install
Stock 3.0L: 380whp (w/ Cantrell intake, headers and exhaust: +$3108)
Stock 3.2L: 382whp (w/ Taitec GT LTW exhaust: +$1247)
Low Compression 3.0L: 419whp (at 11psi: +$???? for low comp pistons or HGs)
Low Compression 3.2L: 447whp (at 10psi w/ Laminova aftercooler, Cantrell intake, headers, exhaust and AEM EMS: +$6100 + low comp pistons or HGs)

Don't forget to add the $650 targa brace if you have a targa. As you can see, the price differences are dramatic. Angus' kit is one of cheapest, if not the cheapest turbo kits out there currently that doesn't need anything else. Even if you bring LoveFab's turbo kit into equation it'll cost $6899 + $1200 for an AEM EMS unit + install and tuning time for 400whp, it's still much cheaper than a supercharger unit. $8700 can get you their stage 2 kit yielding up to 478whp. Remember, their kits come with custom headers as well!

I'm not trying to bash SOS but they (and CT Engineering) are the only two companies still making superchargers AFAIK. CT Engineering kits are either $500 cheaper (for coupes) or $150 cheaper (for targas - includes brace and engine cover) when compared to the SOS kit. Both kits are top notch!

Having said all that, I would love to have both a turbo and SC'd NSX. I'm more than likely going to turbo the 91 in the near future and if I have any left over I would definitely supercharge the 95. God I'm gonna be poor. :frown:

Friedhouse · 11 November 2009

Joe,
Going turbo is without a doubt less expensive. People just get scared at the turbo set up because it has more parts to deal with rather than a SC setup. The reason for less than 500rwhp is the common saftey zone for the stock engine is 5psi boost. So you could easily have an awesome turbo setup boosting 5psi hitting 400rwhp on your stock engine for less money than the SC setups you are talking about. Plus like others have said, if a few months or a year down the road you want more? Build your block a little with some low comp pistons, and boost 9-10psi and get your pants blown off.

And as for reliability i dont see a difference between turbo and supercharger. They are both forced induction units. So they both essentially do the same thing...the turbo is just more efficient at making power.

Big Brown · 11 November 2009

shane,

sounds like you are volunteering for a mechanic day where you can install my turbo kit. I am looking into the angus kit and might try to install it myself. sounds like fun and maybe i could learn a few things from doing it.

NSX-ST · 11 November 2009

Friedhouse said:
The reason for less than 500rwhp is the common saftey zone for the stock engine is 5psi boost.

Just curious where you got this info from. I was searching for a solid safe PSI number for a stock motor and found most CTSC systems pushing 6-6.5psi right out of the box, with SOS offering a smaller pulley raising boost to 8.5psi for 3.0L and 7.5psi for 3.2L. No mention of having to go with lower compression yet.

Cozmo · 11 November 2009

Big Brown said:
I am looking into the angus kit and might try to install it myself. sounds like fun and maybe i could learn a few things from doing it.

After reading through the entire turbo kit thread, looking at everybody's pictures, and sending about 10 million emails and PMs to Wil I actually think I probably could've installed it, but I decided it was better to let him do it. A big part of that decision was the tuning. I figured his tuner had a lot of experience with cars with his kit on it and the AEM FIC. Several people here have installed it themselves.

v5e_nsx · 11 November 2009

In my opinion, there is not much difference between SC to TC. Yes I have to admit that you may be able to do more with a turbo such as different boost level on different gears or what not; but power is power!

Let me see if I can locate my dyno..... A bit over 500hp on my SC on a stock motor....hehehehe

Jack Sparrow · 11 November 2009

Does anyone have a turbo kit made by FX Motorsports Development?

doc_tai · 11 November 2009

I chose turbo cause it's universal plus I dont like the noise that ctsc make

ENSSEX · 11 November 2009

Jack Sparrow said:
Does anyone have a turbo kit made by FX Motorsports Development?

If I were YOU... Stick with people who do alot of these setups on the NSX.. Angus (Wil) is a solid guy who has been turbo'n for MANY years.. this isn't his FIRST BBQ .... He has been at this game for many years with other Hondas

Adding FI to and engine whether it be a Civic or an NSX is still FI and both have the same result ....more power

As far as reliability.... I read more noises and broken parts on a SC than I ever hear about on a turbo set up... why ? because a SC has more moving parts its a fact

If you want laser eye surgury would you go to a guy that has done 15 or the guy who has done 3500... my 2 cents....

sahtt · 11 November 2009

NSX-ST said:
Just curious where you got this info from. I was searching for a solid safe PSI number for a stock motor and found most CTSC systems pushing 6-6.5psi right out of the box, with SOS offering a smaller pulley raising boost to 8.5psi for 3.0L and 7.5psi for 3.2L. No mention of having to go with lower compression yet.

There is no reason to use psi as a variable in which to decide if the engine is still safe for use on stock internals. The power the engine is transmitting through the drive train is the only factor. Psi figures are themselves variable in relation to output, two different superchargers (or turbochargers) pushing 9.0 psi will yield different horsepower gains on the exact same engine.

Your main decision will be your power goal and your risk tolerance. Do not assume that just because you are running 400whp (150whp over stock, or a power increase of >60% of OEM output) your engine is just as likely to fail as stock. That is not the case.

There are numerous benefits of a turbo system over a super charged system. Turbos are more efficient by nature which causes the engine to work less for the same amount of power acheived. In addition, a properly tuned turbo setup can achieve near identical fuel mileage when off boost as stock. This is much more difficult with super chargers. This is not a concern for most now, but when gas is 5$ again that may change.

Erik B · 11 November 2009

sahtt said:
The power the engine is transmitting through the drive train is the only factor

Nuff said!!

It KILLS me to hear kids on the ITR websites thinking a SC is safer then a Turbo...lol. A motor has NO idea what is pushing it to make more power.

BATMANs · 11 November 2009

Cozmo said:
Why is a supercharger easier on the engine than a turbo?

I think this is more of a blanket statement regarding superchargers that might yet less HP than a Turbo solution.

At the end of the day the more FI power u squeeze outta an engine that wasn't designed for FI to begin with you should realize that ailments chronic and/or acute will start to show up.

I suspect that Superchargers for the same boost/HP will be more stress on the engine since adds to the parastatic drag to make it work. In other words it's one more component for the engine to power up (belt).

powerslave7 · 11 November 2009

For all you turbo sc tuned guys- what would you do to an nsx that you wanted to last another 20 years?

Because i want mine to, i was wondering any of them would go the distance?

Friedhouse · 11 November 2009

NSX-ST said:
Just curious where you got this info from. I was searching for a solid safe PSI number for a stock motor and found most CTSC systems pushing 6-6.5psi right out of the box, with SOS offering a smaller pulley raising boost to 8.5psi for 3.0L and 7.5psi for 3.2L. No mention of having to go with lower compression yet.

I was refering to this thread http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129294 and was refering to turbo psi output not SC. Everything is variable though: How many miles on the car? How hard and often is it going to be drivin? Street or track? I know if i were tracking my car with a 500 hp setup, turbo or SC, i wouldnt feel safe doing it with a stock block.

Big Brown said:
shane,

sounds like you are volunteering for a mechanic day where you can install my turbo kit. I am looking into the angus kit and might try to install it myself. sounds like fun and maybe i could learn a few things from doing it.

I would be down to help you install it, it would be fun. Who do you have in mind to tune it? Because im really good friends with someone in town that runs a shop, he mostly does EVOs, 240s, and hondas, all common tuner cars, but im sure he could help out if needed. Heres a link to his most recent build crazy awesome Mitsubishi Mirage pushing 800hp. http://lvracingscene.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70311

Vega$ NSX · 12 November 2009

Jack Sparrow said:
Does anyone have a turbo kit made by FX Motorsports Development?

Yes, me. 550 whp. No problems. Very happy.

Bahta1 · 12 November 2009

powerslave7 said:
For all you turbo sc tuned guys- what would you do to an nsx that you wanted to last another 20 years?

Because i want mine to, i was wondering any of them would go the distance?

Same here, I would like to know which one to choose so my NSX is good 20 years later.

01blacks4 · 12 November 2009

Big Brown said:
I just thought that having a supercharger is more reliable when it comes to keeping a somewhat stock engine. I guess i worded it wrong and shouldnt have used the word easier. but in terms of reliability on the motor a supercharger is the way to go.

One of the dumbest misconceptions ever to populate this forum...for like 10 YEARS too....

The car (engine) will not car how it gets more air....more CFM (boost) is more CFM....same from a turbo or supercharger...

IMO you have to "change" more with a supercharger, than a turbo.

actually if you want to get picky...a SC is harder on the engine because it raises the intake air temps...with a turbo, which typically has an intercooler...the lower intake temps mean lower chance of early detonation

doc_tai · 12 November 2009

Bahta1 said:
Same here, I would like to know which one to choose so my NSX is good 20 years later.

like i said turbo is universal so you wont have problem finding parts for it in 20 years

3.5lnsxr · 12 November 2009

here is my dyno sheet from SOS supercharger done by driving ambition
i like the look of the supercharger better. it had more exotic looking for the nsx then turbo.
and with supercharger there is no lag. you can feel the power even with 1500 rpm
Driving Ambition did a awesome job on my car.

FXMDBilly · 12 November 2009

Vega$ NSX said:
Yes, me. 550 whp. No problems. Very happy.

Dude, your car HAULS ASS now. I heard about the number fluffing before, but IMO it's alot quicker than the last time I drove it. I am redesigning my exhaust to hopefully get similar torque #s as you

The airbox also turned out great, as well as the new turbo piping. I can't wait until mine is done, i'm sooo close!

Oh, and soften your compression 2 'sweeps'. It should make your car a little more compliant.

Billy

turbo >500whp why???

Big Brown

Stephen@NCAutoUSA

Cozmo

Big Brown

Cozmo

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