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whats the best oil to use?
- Thread starter dlynes
- Start date
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd expect steel to be used for crankshaft, camshafts, cam followers, piston rings, oil pump impeller.nsxtasy said:
Grapeseed oil rocks. High flash point.SCS2k said:
And to those who think synthetic oil every 3000 miles is a waste of money: compared to gas + tires + insurance, oil is peanuts. With what I spend in time and money on the car, I have no problem erring on the side of excess when it comes to oil. Looks good at resale time too.
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In Europe (Switzerland) we have a very special oil from Mobil. It's a fully synthetic 0W/40. Honda sells it as the 'TYPE R oil'. It's very expensive but I'll never go back to something else. I change it every 6000 miles and my garage told me that changing it every 3000 miles would be overkill if you don't race my car.
Greetings,
Thomas
Greetings,
Thomas
What about time consideration
After reading the entire thread (very helpful) I'm still left wondering what opinions there are on the time oil is left in the car and what effect that has on changing oil. Mine is a weekend driver and stored during the winter. Let's say I put MB1 in it, is that a 5000 mile or 5 month scenario? Thanks.
After reading the entire thread (very helpful) I'm still left wondering what opinions there are on the time oil is left in the car and what effect that has on changing oil. Mine is a weekend driver and stored during the winter. Let's say I put MB1 in it, is that a 5000 mile or 5 month scenario? Thanks.
The oil I use (Amzoil) is sent in for diagonosis and the dealer tells me whether or not I need to change it or not. Not an expert on this, but I think it has something to do with the breakdown of the items in the oil. As long as this hasn't happened, no need to change. I have gone for 1000's and 1000's of km's on the same oil without changing while others have already changed theirs twice/three times or more. This might suggest that they were throwing away oil that was still useful regardless of color. Again, not an expert - just citing my personal experiences.
Tim
Tim
Sent to whom, and what analysis is performed?Bigglezworth said:
The problem is that you are going to get a variety of opinions about how often to change your oil. Honda's recommendation in the owner's manual is 7500 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first, for the '91-96 NSX (I'm not sure about the newer ones). Some folks believe in the advice that mechanics have been giving for decades, 3000 miles or 3 months. Others may have still other opinions. So don't look for a consensus, because there is none.Bonk said:
Mobil does not recommend extending your service intervals beyond the car manufacturer's recommendations just because you are using synthetic oil. From their website:
MYTH: You don't have to change the oil as often when using Mobil 1.
REALITY: While Mobil 1 has given excellent results in extended oil drain tests, ExxonMobil prefers to remain conservative with oil drain recommendations. ExxonMobil engineers recommend that you can go all the way to the maximum mileage or time frame shown in your owner's manual for oil changes when using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. This allows the reserve protection capabilities of Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ to cover unusual or unexpected driving conditions.
Oil change intervals can be as short as 3,000 miles or as long as 15,000 miles on some new cars. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™'s high-performance reserves can give you the confidence to go the full mileage or time frame recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is especially suitable for the latest vehicles with extended drain intervals or vehicles with oil monitoring systems that vary oil drain intervals.
As for the winter scenario, when my car sits for 4-6 months during the winter, I leave the oil alone. The first time I take it out in Spring, I take it in for an oil change.
For another opinion, feel free to consult with your local dealer, Acura of Brookfield, which is the leading servicer of NSXs in the Midwest.
Here's some good reading if you have the time
www.amsoil.com.
On a lighter note, here's some good reading if you have some time to kill surfing for a 1/2 hour or so.
Regards,
Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY DO WE CHANGE OIL?
There are only a few basic reasons why it is necessary to change your oil, and they all, in the end, have to do with decreased protection of your engine and decreased performance. If these elements can be minimized, then there would be little or no reason to change the oil.
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/oil-breakdown.shtml
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil Recommended Drain Intervals
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/change-intervals.shtml
Industry Standard Testing Proves AMSOIL Best
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/index.shtml#mobil2
Which Oil to Order??
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/productinfo.shtml
Again, please note that the links to this are provided simply as a consumer and not a plug for a dealer. I have no affiliation to any dealer network and simply providing the above links as information relative to the topic at hand. As I mentioned in my first thread, I use this oil in my high reving naturally aspirated NSX and also in my high torque/low revving Turbocharged Buick GNX. I wouldn't think of using anything else.
Best regards,
Tim
I have a sample sent to my dealer and they simply phone me and let me know if it is "time". http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/oilanalysis.shtml
www.amsoil.com.
Well put. There will be many that agree to disagree and many that disagree to agree...
On a lighter note, here's some good reading if you have some time to kill surfing for a 1/2 hour or so.
Regards,
Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY DO WE CHANGE OIL?
There are only a few basic reasons why it is necessary to change your oil, and they all, in the end, have to do with decreased protection of your engine and decreased performance. If these elements can be minimized, then there would be little or no reason to change the oil.
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/oil-breakdown.shtml
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil Recommended Drain Intervals
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/change-intervals.shtml
Industry Standard Testing Proves AMSOIL Best
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/index.shtml#mobil2
Which Oil to Order??
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/productinfo.shtml
Again, please note that the links to this are provided simply as a consumer and not a plug for a dealer. I have no affiliation to any dealer network and simply providing the above links as information relative to the topic at hand. As I mentioned in my first thread, I use this oil in my high reving naturally aspirated NSX and also in my high torque/low revving Turbocharged Buick GNX. I wouldn't think of using anything else.
Best regards,
Tim
Last edited:
goldNSX said:
We have Mobil 1 synthetic 0w-40 here too. I use it in my Porsche turbo per the factory recommendations. Most auto part stores carry it for about $4 / quart, the same price as the other synthetics.
I think he was referring to Mobil 1 Race Formula, which is about $11.00 a quart.SCS2k said:
Oil is a slippery subject
Thanks for the reply...I guess I'll stick to the MB1 @ 5000 miles or 5 months. Good advice on changing it first thing in the spring. Just like my motorcycle.
Thanks for the reply...I guess I'll stick to the MB1 @ 5000 miles or 5 months. Good advice on changing it first thing in the spring. Just like my motorcycle.
Some more reading material. enjoy
btw, I use MB1 10-30 every 4 months(usually less than 2k miles)
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_gas_and_oil/mult_oil_article.htm
btw, I use MB1 10-30 every 4 months(usually less than 2k miles)
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_gas_and_oil/mult_oil_article.htm
Excellent information link
Thank you!
NSXLuvr said:Some more reading material. enjoy
btw, I use MB1 10-30 every 4 months(usually less than 2k miles)
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_gas_and_oil/mult_oil_article.htm
Thank you!
YOWZA! -76Degrees for teh 5W30. Certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere in which I had to pick an oil that supported cold starts like that. OMG!
I have read that in normal operating conditions good quality dyno oil and synthetic probably perform just as well (even at the track) when changed at reasonable intervals. I also have heard the reason to use synthetic is in case of abnormal conditions (like a mechanical failure). For example, say you cooked a head gasket or blew a coolent line (and hopefully shut down before any major damage), the synthetic will give a better level of protection to prevent further failure. Cheap insurance.
That is my justification for using Mobil 1 on the NSX.
For my V8s I use Castrol GTX 20W-50 and have for many years. When I have opened an engine after using Castrol it is always clean (can't say that for engines that have used other brands).
Disclaimer, I am NOT an oil expert, only passing along past experience.
That is my justification for using Mobil 1 on the NSX.
For my V8s I use Castrol GTX 20W-50 and have for many years. When I have opened an engine after using Castrol it is always clean (can't say that for engines that have used other brands).
Disclaimer, I am NOT an oil expert, only passing along past experience.
KGP said:
Sorry, my mistake.
The owners manual says to use Honda Motor Oil, It also says You may use a Synthetic oil, Pages 181 and 182 2002 Owners manual.
News to me, can you cite something as an actual example of a "Machining tolerance"?? A spec from a Porsche or Merc, and the same different spec from the NSX.
No I do not, not unless Mobile is in some way compensating Honda to put it there.
186 degrees is your water temp, the oil temp is always much much higher then the water temp.
Like you I have almost never seen a HP increase with any different types of oil.
And that is because you used non-synthetic oil?? The life span and quality of all cars has greatly improved in the last 50 years they just keep getting better and better, as have the recommended amount of time between oil changes, there are many reasons, one of the major ones is better metals. How about the Japanese engineer and build great cars?
The non-synthetics have also advanced in the last 16 years they are also very good, but not as good as a synthetic. You cannot use a synthetic oil in a new engine, why, because it almost stops wear, it will not allow parts to "break-in" or wear in , a non-synthetic will allow parts to wear in, and they continue that wear in at a faster rate than they would with a synthetic.
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White94 said:
Could not have summarized this very informative thread any better. Emphasis on "clean".
Just to add though. You can't go wrong with good ol Castrol GTX 10-W30.
AndyVecsey said:
LMFAO...you think WAY too much. Because the machining tolerances are not the same as in the German engines??
Uh huh. Your knowledge, or complete lack thereof, of oil clearly shows in this reply.As to why there isn't a MB1 sticker in the engine compartment, did you miss marketing 101 when you were in college?
Yellow Rose
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LMFAO...you think WAY too much. Because the machining tolerances are not the same as in the German engines?? Uh huh. Your knowledge, or complete lack thereof, of oil clearly shows in this reply.
I am a mechanical engineer for twenty-three years – fifteen of which was with Shell, developing lubricants and fuels.....I think I know what I am talking about. What do you know, other than smack talk?
As to why there isn't a MB1 sticker in the engine compartment, did you miss marketing 101 when you were in college?
Sonny boy - when you think you are really up to the task of debating with me, let me know. Otherwise, you are a pimple waiting to be popped.
Uh huh. Your knowledge, or complete lack thereof, of oil clearly shows in this reply.I am a mechanical engineer for twenty-three years – fifteen of which was with Shell, developing lubricants and fuels.....I think I know what I am talking about. What do you know, other than smack talk?
As to why there isn't a MB1 sticker in the engine compartment, did you miss marketing 101 when you were in college?
Sonny boy - when you think you are really up to the task of debating with me, let me know. Otherwise, you are a pimple waiting to be popped.
Yellow Rose
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What did we do before the dawn of the synthetic age? We used organic oil. I used Pennzoil organic in one of my cars for sixteen years that had 187,000 miles on it when I sold it. At the time of sale, it did not burn a single drop of oil.
And that is because you used non-synthetic oil??
Uhhh, yes, what part about my post is not clear?
And that is because you used non-synthetic oil??
Uhhh, yes, what part about my post is not clear?
I can't help but jump in here w/ my $.02. Opinions are cheap!
Like someone else already stated, we will never be able to reach concensous on this issue. To answer the question, a controlled test of a statistically significant number of engines would be necessary....something I doubt any of us have the time or money to do. That's why there's so much myth out there. The bottom line is to do what's comfortable to you for change intervals while using an oil and filter that meet the minimum standards Honda recommends.
I can't put my hands on the issue, and memory of the exact details are dim, but Consumers Report published a test in the summer of 1996 or 1997. In it they reported their findings on engines run in New York City taxi cabs. Critical engine components (pistons, bores, bearings, cam lobes, etc., etc.) were measured before and after miles were put on. They tested some on synthetic and some on conventional oil. Some were changed at 3000 mile intervals and others at 6000 miles. They presented the conclusion there was no measureable difference in wear between oil type or change interval. The results were based on the teardown of at least 3 engines in each category. They left it to the owner to decide whether the extra safety margin a synthetic provided was a good value. (I think it is.)
I'll be the first to admit that NSX's are very different from a NYC taxi, and so drawing any comparison involves risk. Also even though CR tested 3 or 6 engines in each case, the number was still statistically significant (should be more than 30). But this is also the only attempt I've seen by an independent party to publish any scientifically based conclusions. To me better than speculation / myth.
One thing I do know is the auto industry profits greatly from selling replacement parts and service (i.e. oil, filters and oil changes, etc). They are, therefore, tight-lipped with any info that might affect that part of thier business.
The general trend among automakers is to longer change intervals due to technical advances in oil, filtration and engine design / manufacturing.
Working as a filter design engineer for a household-name filter maker for several years taught me that filter technology has improved dramatically over the last 30 years. Specifically, best new filter papers are capable of removing the smallest particles more efficiently than ever before, and also hold more contaminant per unit area than ever before. This technology is available to all in the industry.
The caveat is that although a filter manufacturer may also supply filters to Ford, Honda, etc meeting the carmakers specs, it doesn't mean they have any responsibiltiy to sell the same exact filter under their own name for that car. They can take cost out of filters they sell under their own name however they please (they can, and do, use papers of lesser quality and also less paper in their cheaper lines). They have their reputatation at stake, but how easy would it be (even for us car fanatics) to really prove in a court of law that an engine failure was caused by someone's flawed filter??? Fram, Purolator, Wix, etc, etc are all profit motivated in a very competitive market where the product is viewed largely as just a comodity rather than a highly engineered product. If they aren't directly involved with selling to a particular car maker, they 'reverse engineer' (i.e. copy based on filter lab tests) their own product to match a competitor's product they buy over the counter. These tests are hard to correlate from one place / time to another and are easy to misconstrue or misrepresent, because there are so many test variables and you are dealing with statistics.
I either use the premium filter offered by a filter company (if I feel they have a good knowledge of the carmakers specs for that filter and trust that filter manufacturer) or I use the carmaker's OE filter. I also use Mobil 1 in all my cars except an old one that leaks too much oil on the floor right now.
Most of my 30 year career was spent (I'm retired now) designing, developing and applying (i.e. tuning) fuel systems (fuel lubricated pumps and injectors) to diesel engines. That work included making highly stressed mechanical components live with the marginal lubrication of diesel fuel. I'm a degreed mechanical engineer (masters), and during the course my career, I personally either supervised and / or ran probably 50,000 hours of engine dynomometer test.
Andy - Are you confusing coolant temp with engine oil temp.? I've never seen oil temps remain at or anywhere near coolant temperatures during sustained full throttle conditions. I'll bet your oil temps during track events are higher than 186 F. Do you have an oil temp gage?
Tribology, the science of bearing lubrication, says that oil viscosity, bearing geometry, and shaft speed, etc determine a bearing's load carrying capability. Bearing loads are applied intermittently in an engine (during firing events). As long as there's an oil film in the bearing,, metal to metal contact is avoided and no wear ocurrs. If the oil viscosity is too low, then the film is completely squeezed out during the load 'event' and you get wear. This is more of a problem at low speeds because there is more time for the film to be squeezed. If the viscosity is too high, the oil that is squeezed out during one load event does not have time to be fully replaced before the next load event and you get wear. (Especially true at high rpm.) The carmaker's recommended oil viscosity is established to be neither too thick nor too thin under most operating conditions.
If I had an NSX (I don't now, but am starting to look) I would need to be awfully sure that one of the following were true before I'd use 20 w - 50 (a mistake I made 30 years ago on a previous Corvette):
Would you please post your VIN.....if it should ever come up for sale, I think I'll pass on it.
Cheers.....
Like someone else already stated, we will never be able to reach concensous on this issue. To answer the question, a controlled test of a statistically significant number of engines would be necessary....something I doubt any of us have the time or money to do. That's why there's so much myth out there. The bottom line is to do what's comfortable to you for change intervals while using an oil and filter that meet the minimum standards Honda recommends.
I can't put my hands on the issue, and memory of the exact details are dim, but Consumers Report published a test in the summer of 1996 or 1997. In it they reported their findings on engines run in New York City taxi cabs. Critical engine components (pistons, bores, bearings, cam lobes, etc., etc.) were measured before and after miles were put on. They tested some on synthetic and some on conventional oil. Some were changed at 3000 mile intervals and others at 6000 miles. They presented the conclusion there was no measureable difference in wear between oil type or change interval. The results were based on the teardown of at least 3 engines in each category. They left it to the owner to decide whether the extra safety margin a synthetic provided was a good value. (I think it is.)
I'll be the first to admit that NSX's are very different from a NYC taxi, and so drawing any comparison involves risk. Also even though CR tested 3 or 6 engines in each case, the number was still statistically significant (should be more than 30). But this is also the only attempt I've seen by an independent party to publish any scientifically based conclusions. To me better than speculation / myth.
One thing I do know is the auto industry profits greatly from selling replacement parts and service (i.e. oil, filters and oil changes, etc). They are, therefore, tight-lipped with any info that might affect that part of thier business.
The general trend among automakers is to longer change intervals due to technical advances in oil, filtration and engine design / manufacturing.
Working as a filter design engineer for a household-name filter maker for several years taught me that filter technology has improved dramatically over the last 30 years. Specifically, best new filter papers are capable of removing the smallest particles more efficiently than ever before, and also hold more contaminant per unit area than ever before. This technology is available to all in the industry.
The caveat is that although a filter manufacturer may also supply filters to Ford, Honda, etc meeting the carmakers specs, it doesn't mean they have any responsibiltiy to sell the same exact filter under their own name for that car. They can take cost out of filters they sell under their own name however they please (they can, and do, use papers of lesser quality and also less paper in their cheaper lines). They have their reputatation at stake, but how easy would it be (even for us car fanatics) to really prove in a court of law that an engine failure was caused by someone's flawed filter??? Fram, Purolator, Wix, etc, etc are all profit motivated in a very competitive market where the product is viewed largely as just a comodity rather than a highly engineered product. If they aren't directly involved with selling to a particular car maker, they 'reverse engineer' (i.e. copy based on filter lab tests) their own product to match a competitor's product they buy over the counter. These tests are hard to correlate from one place / time to another and are easy to misconstrue or misrepresent, because there are so many test variables and you are dealing with statistics.
I either use the premium filter offered by a filter company (if I feel they have a good knowledge of the carmakers specs for that filter and trust that filter manufacturer) or I use the carmaker's OE filter. I also use Mobil 1 in all my cars except an old one that leaks too much oil on the floor right now.
Most of my 30 year career was spent (I'm retired now) designing, developing and applying (i.e. tuning) fuel systems (fuel lubricated pumps and injectors) to diesel engines. That work included making highly stressed mechanical components live with the marginal lubrication of diesel fuel. I'm a degreed mechanical engineer (masters), and during the course my career, I personally either supervised and / or ran probably 50,000 hours of engine dynomometer test.
Andy - Are you confusing coolant temp with engine oil temp.? I've never seen oil temps remain at or anywhere near coolant temperatures during sustained full throttle conditions. I'll bet your oil temps during track events are higher than 186 F. Do you have an oil temp gage?
Tribology, the science of bearing lubrication, says that oil viscosity, bearing geometry, and shaft speed, etc determine a bearing's load carrying capability. Bearing loads are applied intermittently in an engine (during firing events). As long as there's an oil film in the bearing,, metal to metal contact is avoided and no wear ocurrs. If the oil viscosity is too low, then the film is completely squeezed out during the load 'event' and you get wear. This is more of a problem at low speeds because there is more time for the film to be squeezed. If the viscosity is too high, the oil that is squeezed out during one load event does not have time to be fully replaced before the next load event and you get wear. (Especially true at high rpm.) The carmaker's recommended oil viscosity is established to be neither too thick nor too thin under most operating conditions.
If I had an NSX (I don't now, but am starting to look) I would need to be awfully sure that one of the following were true before I'd use 20 w - 50 (a mistake I made 30 years ago on a previous Corvette):
- Castrol GTX 20w - 50 really exhibits viscosity characteristics more like a 10w -30 oil the manufacturer recommends.
- The NSX engine really doesn't need a 10w - 30 oil, and needs 20w - 50 instead (i.e. I know something that Honda/Acura doesn't know or say about their engine.)
- My oil temps were typically much higher than what Honda designed for.
Would you please post your VIN.....if it should ever come up for sale, I think I'll pass on it.
Cheers.....
