whats the best oil to use?

[JChoice]

I second that - unless you have oil temp issues, running 20-50 is not a good idea.

I run a 20-50 in my road race car because we have measured oil temps to prove that it's necessary. The cars run HOT. Running a 20-50 in a car that doesn't need it will reduce WHP.

I would recommend running a 10-30 synthetic. The closer the two numbers are (10 - 30 in this case), the fewer viscosity thickeners are needed to create the multigrade properties. Synthetics use fewer thickeners than organic oils because they tend to have multigrade properties without the use of these thickeners.

These thickeners are fairly large molecules that can easily get sheared under high stress conditions. Once they are sheared, your oil may not quite be a 10-30 oil - hence the need to change your oil every once in a while.

Synthetics also tend to have more detergent properties. One of the jobs of your motor oil is to capture and suspend some of the byproducts of combustion and keep your engine clean.

Will all this make your engine last longer? Maybe, maybe not - but if you own an NSX and you care about performance, why wouldn't you want the higher margin of protection?

 

[Bob Schaefer]

For any here who may not know already. There is some good info on oils and lubrication on the S2000 website, www/s2ki.com. Do a search in the "under the hood" forum. 'Road Rage' appears to be the resident expert.

Bob S.

 

[j14nsx]

Some questions for Bob, the engineer.

My NSX does have a oil temp gauge. The sensor is fitted in the sump, so its reading the temp before it goes to the standard cooler, which, I read is not very effective.

Normal road driving and the oil will average 80degC. On the track, and it will be 130degC, if npt more.

I read that the ideal temp for an oil is 80-90degC.

So, do I use the 10w30 that Honda recommends, or a more 'race marketed' oil like 20w50? Still a road oil, not a full race oil.

Or stick to 10w30, and cool the oil more effectively?

 

[honda606]

Sonny boy - when you think you are really up to the task of debating with me, let me know. Otherwise, you are a pimple waiting to be popped.

Bring it fool. What the heck do you want to debate? Present a topic...

 

[Osiris_x11]

hmmm, i personally prefer olive oil (extra-virgin, to be exact) for most international/mediterrean cuisines. i use canola oil and/or sunflower oil for domestic/continental dishes. if flavour is the name of the game, i'll indulge w/ peanut oil or sesame oil. flaxseed oil if there is a need, as well. due to my faith, i have to abstain from lard/animal fat in food preparation so that often limits the culinary prowess i can achieve.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Andy - Are you confusing coolant temp with engine oil temp.?

No.....when I posted my reply to donymo, I was referencing water temperature.

I'll bet your oil temps during track events are higher than 186 °F.

Agree.

Do you have an oil temp gage?

No.

Tribology, the science of bearing lubrication.....

Yes, I am quite familiar with this science. Honda 606 are you listening? I have worked with SWRI in San Antonio on several occasions.

Sorry 'bout that Andy, do you only use 20w - 50 for track events and switch to 10w - 30 otherwise? My apologies if one of these is true.

No apology required.....I use Castrol 20-w-50 24/7. If that concerns you, tough nuggies. I run my FI'ed NSX engine hard every day that I drive the car, with no problems whatsoever. I average over 12k miles per year.

Would you please post your VIN.....if it should ever come up for sale, I think I'll pass on it.

Take a hike.....my NSX will not be for sale to you, nor anyone else.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Lick Me, Fool

Bring it fool. What the heck do you want to debate? Present a topic...

Are you not able to make intelligence from my post back to you on this thread, or the PM that I sent you?

And like SCS2k make a comment about me in another thread, you do NOT want to debate with me on the topics of gasoline or oil.....lest you run home with a tucked tail.

 

[Arata]

And why is it synthetic oils are not recommended for "breaking in" new motors??

And again an example of your statement "Because the machining tolerances in our Japanese engine are not the same as in the German engines. "

Some fact to back up this statement??

 

[nsxtasy]

And why is it synthetic oils are not recommended for "breaking in" new motors??

The theory under which some folks put forth this recommendation in the past is that the valves and other engine parts in a new engine need to wear slightly in order to seat properly. However, that's not necessarily valid with modern engines, and as noted previously, some engines come from the factory with Mobil 1 as the factory fill. It says on the Mobil 1 website:

"MYTH: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to Mobil 1.
REALITY: You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in brand-new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:

Chevrolet Corvette
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang Cobra R
All Aston Martin cars

One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor."

However, it's also worth noting that the NSX comes from the factory with a special break-in oil, and owners are advised by American Honda to leave that oil in the engine for several thousand miles before changing it.

 

[Bob Schaefer]

j14NSX - Wow! 130+ C = 266+ F. That's pretty hot. Are you
confident in the calibration of your oil temp instrumentation? Is your present cooler functinoing properly now? Might be worth checking, before proceeding further. What kind of ambient temps are you runnning in? You're in the U.K., right? (I can't help wonder what your oil temps would be if you're running in the Texas summer, he, he). I'm flattered you ask me the question, but since my engineering fortes have been fuel systems and
filtration, I don't feel qualified to give any concrete suggestions. I'd
suggest consulting with 'Road Rage' on the S2000 website:
http://www/s2ki.com in the "under the hood" forum. He seems to
have a lot of good info on oils at his fingertips. That being said, I
will give you my thoughts on what I'd do if faced with your
situation. Please take this with a grain of salt. I'll also be interested
what you eventually learn......to see if my thinking makes sense.
Here goes:

If you change to a higher viscosity oil than 10w - 30, you'd still
have to worry about whether the oil will stand that kind of
temperature and / or need very frequent changing. I'd also
expect a higher viscosity oil would likely generate even more heat
than the 10 w - 30 you're presently using, and likely drive oil temps
even higher than they are now. Sounds like with something like
20w - 50 you might even be pushing 150 C / 300 F. And of course,
you'd also have the issue of the higher viscosity oil not conforming
to Acura's Honda's recommendations. IMHO this solution is only
marginal for track only use, and would possibly lead to increased
engine wear rates under other conditions (normal driving especially
at anything but the hottest ambient temps).

The more elegant solution from an engineering standpoint is to
remove more heat from the oil by upgrading the oil cooling system
to keep oil temps closer to normal. Admittedly, this is more
expensive, and more work than changing oil to a different viscosity.

Cheers!

 

[Bob Schaefer]

j14nsx - P.S. I just realized I probably should have mentioned you may wind up needing to upgrade the oil cooling system, and then also change to 20 w - 50 for track use.

JChoice - What do you run on you road race car for an oil cooler?

 

[j14nsx]

Bob, thanks for the response. It's quite known within the NSX track community that the NSX engine does run very hot (oil wise) while on the track. I'm not the fastest person out there either, so I'm sure others will run be running hotter. I have ben advised by MJ (Daliracing) that my temps are not unusual. The oil gauge is made by VDO, and is electrical, I do not know how accurate it is.

I'd like to make my car 'safe' for track driving, but I won't switch oils based on the hearsay of a forum like this. So first I fitted a temp gauge so I know what is going on.

The oil sensor being fitted to the sump is measuring hot oil from the engine, but the small water to oil cooler is not supposed to be that effective.

My next step would be to add an oil cooler. I have data sheets from MOCAL who make coolers, and over the winter rest try to calculate which oil cooler will suit.

I do indeed run in the UK. I have run 120degC even when the outside air temp is just above freezing. The recent track time was at Spa, in 26degC heat.

 

[NeSX]

Re: Then - Now

I use full synthetic oil in all my cars.

What did we do before the dawn of the synthetic age? We used organic oil. I used Pennzoil organic in one of my cars for sixteen years that had 187,000 miles on it when I sold it. At the time of sale, it did not burn a single drop of oil.

My organic trumps your synthetic.....equally in terms of performance and definitely in terms of cost.

And what did we do before the dawn of Electronic Fuel Injection? We used Carborators. Why don't you pop one of those on your NSX.

Why do you care so damn much about the oil we are all using?

 

[Yellow Rose]

And what did we do before the dawn of Electronic Fuel Injection? We used Carborators.

No, we used “carburetors".

Why don't you pop one of those on your NSX.

And the meaning of this comment is......?

Why do you care so damn much about the oil we are all using?

Rob, I am not sure exactly where this question comes from.....for I was not the originator of the question as to which oil is the best to use. So to use your words, "I don't give a damn" what oil you use, but I do have an opinion.

Thank you, have a good day.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Govern youself accordingly


Armando

 

[NeSX]

Andy-

I appreciate your spellchecking of my post, especially seeing as that is about the only value you have added to this thread.

My original intent was to inquire as to why you are so adiment that all of us that use synth oil are wasting our money. To have an opinion is one thing, to quote and debate every other users' opinions, especially seeing as there is questionable emperical data to support either point of view, is rediculous.

Feel free to continue though... I even left a few more spelling errors in here for you to catch...

 

[Yellow Rose]

Noted But Ignored

Rob wrote.....

Feel free to continue though...I even left a few more spelling errors in here for you to catch.

Andy wrote.....

Just like you to me, is that all the relevance you can contribute to this thread?

 

[honda606]

Re: Lick Me, Fool

Bring it fool. What the heck do you want to debate? Present a topic...

Are you not able to make intelligence from my post back to you on this thread, or the PM that I sent you?

And like SCS2k make a comment about me in another thread, you do NOT want to debate with me on the topics of gasoline or oil.....lest you run home with a tucked tail.

All your base are belong to us. Is that pumpanese you addressed me with because I tend to prefer english?

Get off you low horse already...there's mud in your eyes.

 

[apapada]

I just don't understand the argument about "wasting" $$$ when it comes down to engine oil... After all, there are millions out there that think that having a nice car is a "waste of $$$" to start with. Every time we rev our engines to 8K isn't a "waste of $$$" in gas since we could have in theory upshifted 6K rpm ago ? It comes down to preferences, not opinions. This is a free country, and if I want to "waste $$$" every time I buy a car, redline it or change its oil, it's my $$$ I'm wasting no ?

 

[Ponyboy]

In keeping with the argumentative tone of spirited discussion and trading of invaluable content, I thought I'd add my $.02 as well:

Still planning on doing a dyno comparo of Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Lucas Oil. Anybody who wants to donate to the cause of knowledge and truth is more than welcome to send over a few cases of oil and filters. Perhaps once that dyno comparo is completed, we can make a good judgement on oil use - hp wise anyway.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Translation, Please

All your base are belong to us.

What does this mean?

Is that pumpanese you addressed me with.....

No.

.....because I tend to prefer english?

Not very good English because.....

Get off you low horse already.....

You mean your horse? Sorry could not resist.

.....there's mud in your eyes.

Actually, there are tears in my eyes from laughing so hard.

 

[nsxtasy]

Perhaps we could keep the discussion here about oil, without the side comments? Please?

 

[AU_NSX]

Re: What's the best oil to use?

I know this is off topic. I have a female friend with a 2000 BMW 3 Series, and she did not change oil (even though her tripcomputer/the maintenance indicator light must have asked her to) for 23K miles. Miracuously, the engine was fine until she put Diesel fuel into the car.

Extra virgin olive oil, but it really depends on your cooking needs. For other purposes I suggest a water-based lubricant, such as K-Y, it doesn't cause latex to break down.

I know this is off topic but I really need a female friend... If I use Extra virgin olive oil in my hair am I more likely to get a virgin? As opposed to using plain olive oil?

And lets just assume for a moment that the oil performs as per the manufacturers specifications and I, in fact, DO get a female friend.... How do I then change to a water based oil so as not to damage the latex lining?

 

[AU_NSX]

Perhaps we could keep the discussion here about oil, without the side comments? Please?

I agree nsxtacy... Some people here have quoted some relevant facts and some very good reasons why we should ALL use engine oil....

However, argueing about which engine oil is better than another is like argueing over which brand of beer tastes better than another! At the end of the day why don't you use whichever engine oil that had (in your opinion) the better marketing campaign...

 

[NeSX]

I second the nomination